JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Dany calls them that In that aspect, we all agree Dany is wrong because she had a biased perspective. Ned tried to save her life and her child's life as well. Dany doesn't know either that Ned is in fact protecting her brother's son from Robert despite keeping a Targaryen baby is very much betrayal in Robert's eyes, whether is an innocent baby or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 @melx That's kind of silly for many reasons, but most of all because the Iron Born were invading the Riverlands. Ned's father in law is the overlord there. Dany calls them that, but Danys biased and doesn't even want to hear the truth about her father. Aerys tried to murder Robert and Ned after murdering their friends and relatives. He had it coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxWolfox Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 that maybe healed friendship but did not excuse Robert's crime go North,stay North and when usurper called him to kill some Ironborns,Ned should have say something like "no thank you,i still dream dead Targaryen children and i do not go to war for somebody who rewards their killers...." It would be in the north's best interest to battle the ironborn rebellion, simply for the proximity. Much of the west coast of the North are hardened warriors (even the women) due to ironborn raidings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Would Stannis kill every last member of house Lannister? Probably not.Would he kill Tywins chief lieutenant and brother, a key figure in the war against Stannis? Of course he would. Kevan isn't innocent (though Stannis would also kill the innocent Tommen and Myrcella)Funny that those who accuse us of being Tywin apologists are lining up to make absurd claims defending Mr "without mercy" Stannis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxWolfox Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Would Stannis kill every last member of house Lannister? Probably not.Would he kill Tywins chief lieutenant and brother, a key figure in the war against Stannis? Of course he would. Kevan isn't innocent (though Stannis would also kill the innocent Tommen and Myrcella)Funny that those who accuse us of being Tywin apologists are lining up to make absurd claims defending Mr "without mercy" StannisI am no fan of Stannis, though I do enjoy his rather dry wit enough, but I just can't see him going on a killing spree. He is protecting Theon from the murderous wrath of almost every single northern person in his camp as of aDwD, even though he knows he would have the whole-hearted support of said northmen if he just burned or beheaded the guy. I recall Asha noted that though Stannis looked like death, his eyes held a power/force unmatched in her view (I took that as Stannis seeing things in people that others less observant could not). So I do not see him as a killing machine ... he kills if he sees the need to, but not for any sort of blood-thirst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 go North,stay North and when usurper called him to kill some Ironborns,Ned should have say something like "no thank you,i still dream dead Targaryen children and i do not go to war for somebody who rewards their killers...." Oh that makes perfect sense... Don't fight the guy who is invading your wife's homeland and is trying to re-establish a kingdom based on raiding and pillaging. Not to mention the long history of Iron Born attacks on the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Like he killed him when he smuggled Edric? Also, how I'm whitewashing Stannis? Does Stannis need whitewashing? We all agree he's an entitled bitter asshole, but an entitled bitter asshole who is a good man within. We've seen him feel remorse for Renly's death. Does Tywin ever say anything besides "I didn't do it!" or "I have to" when faced with a crime?Edric doesn't help your case. First, Stannis came very close to killing him and Davos thought he would after the third King died. Stannis never made an ultimate choice AGAINST killing him, only to put it offSecond, the cases are different. Edric was politically insignificant, was Stannis kin, and killing him was not guaranteed to gain anything. Tommen and Myrcella are no kin to Stannis, in fact they are living insults to House Baratheon in his mind. "Abominations." And politically they are a huge threat against his power even if he wins the war. Let's not be naive here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melx Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 He did. It's in the books, if you want to check them out sometime. He left the capital and it took Lyanna's death to bring them back together, because despite their differences (Ned's decency vs Robert's all around terribleness) they were still close friends. he did not,he stayed main killer in "criminal gang" as Ironborn can testified In that aspect, we all agree Dany is wrong because she had a biased perspective. Ned tried to save her life and her child's life as well. all we can agree is that killers were sent and that in fact "honorable" Ned did nothing for her,nothing when usurper sent Stannis to kill her at Dragonstone and nothing when assassin was hired across the sea.....he just said some words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Like he killed him when he smuggled Edric? Also, how I'm whitewashing Stannis? Does Stannis need whitewashing? We all agree he's an entitled bitter asshole, but an entitled bitter asshole who is a good man within. We've seen him feel remorse for Renly's death. Does Tywin ever say anything besides "I didn't do it!" or "I have to" when faced with a crime?Edric doesn't help your case. First, Stannis came very close to killing him and Davos thought he would after the third King died. Stannis never made an ultimate choice AGAINST killing him, only to put it offSecond, the cases are different. Edric was politically insignificant, was Stannis kin, and killing him was not guaranteed to gain anything. Tommen and Myrcella are no kin to Stannis, in fact they are living insults to House Baratheon in his mind. "Abominations." And politically they are a huge threat against his power even if he wins the war. Let's not be naive here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Like he killed him when he smuggled Edric? Also, how I'm whitewashing Stannis? Does Stannis need whitewashing? We all agree he's an entitled bitter asshole, but an entitled bitter asshole who is a good man within. We've seen him feel remorse for Renly's death. Does Tywin ever say anything besides "I didn't do it!" or "I have to" when faced with a crime?Edric doesn't help your case. First, Stannis came very close to killing him and Davos thought he would after the third King died. Stannis never made an ultimate choice AGAINST killing him, only to put it offSecond, the cases are different. Edric was politically insignificant, was Stannis kin, and killing him was not guaranteed to gain anything. Tommen and Myrcella are no kin to Stannis, in fact they are living insults to House Baratheon in his mind. "Abominations." And politically they are a huge threat against his power even if he wins the war. Let's not be naive here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Would Stannis kill every last member of house Lannister? Probably not.Would he kill Tywins chief lieutenant and brother, a key figure in the war against Stannis? Of course he would. Kevan isn't innocent (though Stannis would also kill the innocent Tommen and Myrcella)Funny that those who accuse us of being Tywin apologists are lining up to make absurd claims defending Mr "without mercy" Stannis I agree that Stannis would kill the children if he could but I don't think it's a sure thing that he would kill Kevan. He would at least give him the chance to take the black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I agree that Stannis would kill the children if he could but I don't think it's a sure thing that he would kill Kevan. He would at least give him the chance to take the black. That's possible, I agree. He'd probably have to be convinced to by Davis or someone though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 he did not,he stayed main killer in "criminal gang" as Ironborn can testified all we can agree is that killers were sent and that in fact "honorable" Ned did nothing for her,nothing when usurper sent Stannis to kill her at Dragonstone and nothing when assassin was hired across the sea.....he just said some words I see..the guys defending themselves against a war of aggression are the criminal gang. I would have thought the criminal gang were the ones fighting a war to re-establish a kingdom based on the principal of being "a criminal gang." Whose primary goal is to steal stuff others have made and carry off women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 That's possible, I agree. He'd probably have to be convinced to by Davis or someone though. It depends on a number of factors. One of the most important ones being how the war ended. If Kevan surrendered to him then the pragmatic thing to do would be pardon him or send him to the wall. I think he's more pragmatic than people give him credit for. It's pretty counter productive to execute people that surrender to you given that he's trying to get the rest of the realm to bend the knee. However, I suppose it could go the other way and have a "this is the price of defiance" moment. We also see his opinion on punishing people who are just following orders. When Florent wants to sack Claw Isle Davos argues that following your lord shouldn't be punished and Stannis agrees with this assessment. Well the whole realm knows Kevan is nothing more that Tywins's loyal servant. So if the same logic applies then he's in the clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 all we can agree is that killers were sent and that in fact "honorable" Ned did nothing for her,nothing when usurper sent Stannis to kill her at Dragonstone and nothing when assassin was hired across the sea.....he just said some words What could he have done to stop it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 he did not,he stayed main killer in "criminal gang" as Ironborn can testified Because you think the Ironborn are a model for respecting the laws and lives of innocent people? The Ironborn were and still are, rapers, thieves and murderers. Robert was 100% justified when he crushed their rebellion. He should have executed or sent to the Wall, Balon, his brothers, and the worsts of the captains. Targaryen of old would have done no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I'm sure Stannis would kill the kids, but I doubt he'd kill Kevan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maid So Fair Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Kevan is basically the Lannister version of Stannis when it comes to his relationship with Tywin. He might be sympathetic to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I am no fan of Stannis, though I do enjoy his rather dry wit enough, but I just can't see him going on a killing spree. He is protecting Theon from the murderous wrath of almost every single northern person in his camp as of aDwD, even though he knows he would have the whole-hearted support of said northmen if he just burned or beheaded the guy. I recall Asha noted that though Stannis looked like death, his eyes held a power/force unmatched in her view (I took that as Stannis seeing things in people that others less observant could not). So I do not see him as a killing machine ... he kills if he sees the need to, but not for any sort of blood-thirst. Protecting Theon?? He outright says he intends to burn him in the sample chapter. He's keeping him alive because of the info he has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxWolfox Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Protecting Theon?? He outright says he intends to burn him in the sample chapter. He's keeping him alive because of the info he has Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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