Blackfish Tully Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Even though the massacre of soldiers and wedding guests is bad, there have been worse crime in Westeros without anyone having the need to seek reprisals. Murder and rape are also a affront to the gods in Westeros, but no one sees the need to respond to that. For example Tywin sacked Kings Landing, and his forces killed children, women, men inncoents in the tousands, and on top of that massacred the Targaryen children. To quote Ser Jorah "I saw King's Landing after the sack. Babes were butchered that day as well, and old men, and children at play. More women were raped than you can count" Now, that I would say was a much worse crime than the Red Wedding, but no one cared about it, except the Martells. The Houses just swore fealty to Robert and got on with their lives. Just like Bran said it is not the murders but the violation of guests right that angers the Gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Nothing has happened that is the level with the Red Wedding . 3500 people murdered in violation of guests rights is unprecedented and deserves special consideration. They were armed soldiers. Robb certainly, and the dignitaries inside would disgust them but the armed soldiers is not too different to the sleeping men Robb surprised at Oxcross. Horrible things happen during War. Just like Bran said it is not the murders but the violation of guests right that angers the Gods. And the Gods will deal with them. The Royces will deal with their own problems and should attacking the Freys become advantageous to them in the future then they will do so, should siding with the Freys in the future become advantageous to them then tehy will do that. While they certainly feel contempt for the Freys they are not going to go out of their own way to raise an army, march thousands of miles to attack the Freys for honour. Not in this series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 @Blackfish Tully 1) What's he waiting for then? Lysa's been dead for two books already? One of his good friends is raising a Frey child. If he wanted to attack any House I suspect he'd want to attack the Tyrells. 2) No. It's not a stain on anyone else. No one else has any reason to care about the victims so much that they'd go out and kill Freys. Only the relatives. 3) A myth. George himself said that fellings in the Vale were mixed between allying with the Starks, joining the Baratheons and staying neutral. Like the rest of Westeros, they have no reason to be so invested in avenging the Freys. 4) The soldiers weren't wedding guests. Only Robbs highlords were invited to the wedding. @Maid so Fair That's an exaggeration. The Vale didn't want to help the Starks... only some of them did. Again, one of the few groups that went out to kill Freys are getting tired of it. @Fire Eater I'm well aware that he called Corbray a Frey. He did it because he broke guest rights. It doesn't mean that he hates all of the Frey's. Anya Waynwood is fostering a Frey girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 They were armed soldiers. Robb certainly, and the dignitaries inside would disgust them but the armed soldiers is not too different to the sleeping men Robb surprised at Oxcross. Horrible things happen during War. They were wedding guests, drinking wine and enjoying the party until the Freys began hacking them to pieces. The Freys only lost about fifty men in comparison to the North's and Riverland's 3500. That wasn't war, it was a massacre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 They were wedding guests, drinking wine and enjoying the party until the Freys began hacking them to pieces. The Freys only lost about fifty men in comparison to the North's and Riverland's 3500. That wasn't war, it was a massacre. Many battles have turned into massacres. Those 3,500 troops were armed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 The Vale Lords are very prickly about their honor so isn't there a chance that they will feel that their honor demands them to seek justice for those slain at the Red Wedding? If you are a strong believer in the Seven Gods and the Red Wedding is an affront to those same Gods wouldn't you have to do something to get justice or your whole religion just becomes a sham? Nah, it doesn't work that way. Too much risk for basically no reward except "honor" and avenging the Starks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 The soldiers were there under a peace agreement just as much as the guests. Ridiculous that anyone denies this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Many battles have turned into massacres. Those 3,500 troops were armed. And in how many of those battles were the men who were slaughtered guests at a wedding? And why do you keep using "they were armed" as an excuse when it's clear they were given no chance to defend themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxWolfox Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 They killed 3,500 armed soldiers and some wedding guests. Arya notes that the soldiers are inebriated, (The drinking had been going on for hours, it seemed.) and crammed together like sardines inside the feast tents (hundreds of men crowding the benches and jostling around the casks of mead and ale and wine. There was hardly room to move inside, but none of them seemed to mind.) These men are not prepared to battle. Inside the castle, the guests are drunk (except for Robb's four guards), as Cat notes, and she's glad the guest's weapons are hanging on pegs on the wall. These are drunk and unarmed guests. They were armed soldiers. Robb certainly, and the dignitaries inside would disgust them but the armed soldiers is not too different to the sleeping men Robb surprised at Oxcross. Horrible things happen during War. And the Gods will deal with them. The Royces will deal with their own problems and should attacking the Freys become advantageous to them in the future then they will do so, should siding with the Freys in the future become advantageous to them then tehy will do that. While they certainly feel contempt for the Freys they are not going to go out of their own way to raise an army, march thousands of miles to attack the Freys for honour. Not in this series. Guest Right in Westeros (during wartime or peace) is something every man, woman, and child of Westeros knows to be sacred, much like a white flag or truce is to us. Horrible things do happen in modern day wars, but we have to hold trust in that the white flag/truce is sacred to both sides. At all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
of man and wolf Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Many battles have turned into massacres. Those 3,500 troops were armed. I seriously doubt soldiers of the North and Riverlands get massacred this badly had they been armed and aware of what was occurring from the get go. They were partying in tents until doused in flames... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maid So Fair Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I seriously doubt soldiers of the North and Riverlands get massacred this badly had they been armed and aware of what was occurring from the get go. They were partying in tents until doused in flames... And this wasn't even war. The whole reason RW took place was because the two parties ostensibly agreed on cessation of any hostilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Ravens Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 And this wasn't even war. The whole reason RW took place was because the two parties ostensibly agreed on cessation of any hostilities. Exactly. It was a wedding for crying out loud. Arranged to make amends for Robb breaking his original pact with house Frey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 It ended the war between House Stark and the Crown. The Riverlands is now once again under Crown rule as is parts of the North.It didn't end the war as the Stark supporters are still actively working against the Lannisters. A hiatus of a few months doesn't count as an end to the war. @Fire Eater I'm well aware that he called Corbray a Frey. He did it because he broke guest rights. It doesn't mean that he hates all of the Frey's. Anya Waynwood is fostering a Frey girl.It means he hates House Frey given near the entire house at the Twins was involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 @Fire Eater That's what you want it to mean, but that's not necessarily true. I can't stress this enough. One of the Vale Lords that wanted to side with the Starks is raising a Frey child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 @Fire Eater That's what you want it to mean, but that's not necessarily true. I can't stress this enough. One of the Vale Lords that wanted to side with the Starks is raising a Frey child. Except I doubt she would forgive the rest of her house for the RW. She would make an exception for the ward who wasn't there, but likely hates the rest of House Frey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Scorpion Knight Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 @Fire Eater: not to mention Daven LANNISTER wants them all killed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 @Fire Eater What? Are you saying Anya Waynwood hates all Freys? There's absolutely no evidence of that. I can't believe I'm repeating this again, but she's raising a Frey in her house. @the Scorpion Knight Daven wants them dead because they're incompetent. It's not about the RW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Except I doubt she would forgive the rest of her house for the RW. She would make an exception for the ward who wasn't there, but likely hates the rest of House Frey. Sandor Frey serves as a squire at Iron Oaks. Cynthena Frey is Lady Waynwoods ward. Walton Frey clearly has strong ties to the Waynwoods as his mother is Marsella Waynwood and he married a Hardyng, Household knights to the Waynwoods, and has 3 children with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 The Red Wedding was the most monumental mistake so far in the series .Almost every great house from the north lost somebody there ,you know that the north is not going to let it slide and the violation of guest's rights let's everyone know your promises are worth diddly squat .Prepare for Red Wedding part 2 .Remember the house of the undying . The man with the head of a wolf eyes following Daenerys in mute APPEAL . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 They were armed soldiers. Robb certainly, and the dignitaries inside would disgust them but the armed soldiers is not too different to the sleeping men Robb surprised at Oxcross. Horrible things happen during War. :bs: invading enemy territory and ambushing a hostile camp that is planning to attack you is hardly the same as burning people alive in a banquet tent, all while under a peace banner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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