The Complete Winds of Winter Resource v. 2

[Shpati]

I read a post elsewhere that the editors said the tWoW (the material submitted) so far was a mess (no real story). Which I can see the material they got from GRRM so far are like the sample chapters. They are probably just fake rumors (like a regular person trying to pretend he knows inside information), but has there been any concrete evidence on this?

[Casso, King of the Seals]

I read a post elsewhere that the editors said the tWoW (the material submitted) so far was a mess (no real story). Which I can see the material they got from GRRM so far are like the sample chapters. They are probably just fake rumors (like a regular person trying to pretend he knows inside information), but has there been any concrete evidence on this?

I think it was just a weak troll on WotW. Editors wouldn't say anything like that even if it was true (which I am certain is not).

[Werthead]

I read a post elsewhere that the editors said the tWoW (the material submitted) so far was a mess (no real story). Which I can see the material they got from GRRM so far are like the sample chapters. They are probably just fake rumors (like a regular person trying to pretend he knows inside information), but has there been any concrete evidence on this?

Utter nonsense (not you repeating, but whoever said it in the first place). Where did you read this?

[Jack Sparrow]

Utter nonsense (not you repeating, but whoever said it in the first place). Where did you read this?

I don't know about the other poster, but I saw it at WotW, in the comments to THIS POST.

It was posted by a user going by the name 'A Lurker', and this is what s/he wrote:

"From what I have heard the TWOW draft with roughly 800 pages done so far is a disaster according to everyone but Linda and Elio. GRRM has lost the plot and his editors are totally freaking out. He is not in the mood for a rewrite and the stuff is really bad."

It doesn't seem to contain any new information and is the kind of rumor you'd expect to be going around (the claim of GRRM "losing the plot" is already a common complaint with the recent books).

[Annarkie]

I don't know about the other poster, but I saw it at WotW, in the comments to THIS POST.

It was posted by a user going by the name 'A Lurker', and this is what s/he wrote:

"From what I have heard the TWOW draft with roughly 800 pages done so far is a disaster according to everyone but Linda and Elio. GRRM has lost the plot and his editors are totally freaking out. He is not in the mood for a rewrite and the stuff is really bad."

It doesn't seem to contain any new information and is the kind of rumor you'd expect to be going around (the claim of GRRM "losing the plot" is already a common complaint with the recent books).

Mention of "the editors freaking out" is a major clue that this isn't accurate. No big publishing house editor would discredit themselves like that. No matter the quality of the material, they will always be, "This is going to be good, the best one so far." They're in the business of selling books and upholding the image that they are a big part in a traditionally published author's success.

[WhitewolfStark]

I know, right? All of my book contracts are from the last 5 years. Now everything's based on word count. I can tell you how many words all 5 of my books have, but not how many manuscript pages, (Which at least I do remember from the old submission guidelines are: Times New Roman 12 point Font, double-spaced, with 1 inch margins). I also don't know how many manuscript pages make a book page, especially given that there will be a different amount depending on the format: Hardcover, Trade Paperback, Mass Market, or E-book.

So hearing about George's page count in his drafts is endlessly fascinating.

IIRC the general rule of thumb is 80,000 words = 1 book, to most publishers.

[Newstar]

I don't know about the other poster, but I saw it at WotW, in the comments to THIS POST.

It was posted by a user going by the name 'A Lurker', and this is what s/he wrote:

"From what I have heard the TWOW draft with roughly 800 pages done so far is a disaster according to everyone but Linda and Elio. GRRM has lost the plot and his editors are totally freaking out. He is not in the mood for a rewrite and the stuff is really bad."

It doesn't seem to contain any new information and is the kind of rumor you'd expect to be going around (the claim of GRRM "losing the plot" is already a common complaint with the recent books).

"A Lurker" was having some cheap fun at the fandom's expense; wherever there are fans desperate for spoilers, there are trolls willing to make up some bullshit to feed them. Linda at least has said that the only TWOW chapters she has read are the sample chapters already released, which certainly doesn't add up to 800 pages. I'm guessing the same is true of Elio.

Also, rumours about GRRM in a deep depression over the show, the show spoiling the books etc. etc. have been flying around for the past little while. Nothing new to see here.

[123456750]

To be honest, TWOW being not so good is not that unlikely. Considering the number of new plotlines and characters that were introduced in the last two books, I am afraid TWOW will resolve only few of them.

Nevertheless, if TWOW gives a satisfying conclusion to Riverlands, Dorne, Aegon and Cersei, ends with Dany reaching Westeros and Others breaking past the Wall, [ <-- all of which are highly probable] I will be more than satisfied.

[Regular John Umber]

To be honest, TWOW being not so good is not that unlikely. Considering the number of new plotlines and characters that were introduced in the last two books, I am afraid TWOW will resolve only few of them.

Nevertheless, if TWOW gives a satisfying conclusion to Riverlands, Dorne, Aegon and Cersei, ends with Dany reaching Westeros and Others breaking past the Wall, [ <-- all of which are highly probable] I will be more than satisfied.

It's not the last book, why should it resolve anything? And is resolution of plotlines all you will be considering when weighing it's merits?

[123456750]

It's not the last book, why should it resolve anything? And is resolution of plotlines all you will be considering when weighing it's merits?

It does not matter if it is the last book or the first, second or third ...

I think every book has to give its readers satisfaction regardless it is a part of book series or not, and to me a book is not satisfying if it ends with many cliffhangers (The best examples are AFFC and ADWD - many cliffhangers, very few resolutions. I liked them, but they were unsatisfying).

[Moondancer]

So, 3 appearances by GRRM but 3 already read chapters. Yeah, we've reached the upper limit for TWoW material...which is hopeful, I have to admit.

[Veltigar]

So, 3 appearances by GRRM but 3 already read chapters. Yeah, we've reached the upper limit for TWoW material...which is hopeful, I have to admit.

After all those years, I'm still bitter that we got Arianne I over Aeron I. GRRM told the audience there was some really messed-up shit in there and they still went with Arianne.

[Shpati]

After all those years, I'm still bitter that we got Arianne I over Aeron I. GRRM told the audience there was some really messed-up shit in there and they still went with Arianne.

Yea I heard about this. I'm not sure why the crowd chose Arianne over Aeron. To me at least, it was obvious whatever Arianne chapter was next, was going to be one of those "Going from Point A to B with some thinking in-between" chapters.

[Newstar]

After all those years, I'm still bitter that we got Arianne I over Aeron I. GRRM told the audience there was some really messed-up shit in there and they still went with Arianne.

It says so much about GRRM's failings as a writer that he tried to dangle "messed-up shit" as an enticement. It reminds me of Eddie Izzard's "Cake or Death!" bit. "You, there! Cake or death?" "I'll take the cake, please."

[Moondancer]

I'm not sure why the crowd chose Arianne over Aeron.

1) No one remembered who Aeron was.

2) 5 people in total care about Aeron; B Cogman is one of them.

3) No one knew who Aeron was.

4) To those who remembered, Aeron seemed like a bore at that point.

5) Aeron lacked a certain allure, one might say. Specific nipples, as well.

Really, it can be anything... :D

(*notices Veltigar* I too am shocked that they didn't choose our 2nd favourite zealot. ;))

[Jonathan N]

IIRC the general rule of thumb is 80,000 words = 1 book, to most publishers.

80,000 sounds like a lot. Not for GRRM, but in terms of being an average. How many paperback pages would it be? Approximately?

[Jonathan N]

"A Lurker" was having some cheap fun at the fandom's expense; wherever there are fans desperate for spoilers, there are trolls willing to make up some bullshit to feed them. Linda at least has said that the only TWOW chapters she has read are the sample chapters already released, which certainly doesn't add up to 800 pages. I'm guessing the same is true of Elio.

Also, rumours about GRRM in a deep depression over the show, the show spoiling the books etc. etc. have been flying around for the past little while. Nothing new to see here.

I think GRRM was trying to not-so-subtly address these rumors on his blog today. Referring to GOT being #1 on NYT bestsellers list:

"All great, of course, but I have to confess, that return to #1 especially tickles.

Pretty damn good for a book first published in 1996.

(It is the return to the show to the airwaves that's responsible, of course, so thanks to HBO and David and Dan and Bryan and our amazing cast and directors... and also to Anne, and all the great folks at Bantam Spectra, who have kept all of the books in print and available for lo these long years. Long may we reign)."

I personally don't believe for a second that he is happy with the show at the moment. But he is certainly saying all the right things, putting on a brave face...

[brown ben romney]

yea while at this point i wish we had gotten the aeron chapter, ariannes affc chapters were way more interesting than aerons affc imo (and the princess in the tower is one of favorite chapters in the series). However i thought ariannes TWOW chapter was the least interesting sample chapter released.

[brown ben romney]

EDIT: double post my bad

[PatrickStormborn]

Yea I heard about this. I'm not sure why the crowd chose Arianne over Aeron. To me at least, it was obvious whatever Arianne chapter was next, was going to be one of those "Going from Point A to B with some thinking in-between" chapters.

In all fairness, the Arianne chapter at least informed us that Storm's End had fallen to Aegon.

I would have voted for the Arianne chapter too. It's only with hindsight (and the release of Arianne I as a gift chapter) that makes me wish Aeron's chapter had been read. But even then, I'm not sure how much it would/could have advanced the plot anyway.