The Complete Winds of Winter Resource v. 2

[Esa1996]

80,000 sounds like a lot. Not for GRRM, but in terms of being an average. How many paperback pages would it be? Approximately?

Around 300. The industry standard is 300 words per page which would make 90 000 words into 300 pages, but they tend to make the font bigger if the book is short in order to make it seem longer.

[Whitering]

In all fairness, the Arianne chapter at least informed us that Storm's End had fallen to Aegon.

I would have voted for the Arianne chapter too. It's only with hindsight (and the release of Arianne I as a gift chapter) that makes me wish Aeron's chapter had been read. But even then, I'm not sure how much it would/could have advanced the plot anyway.

Yes Aeron's first chapter while it might be messed up, will almost certainly be an info dump on the situation in the Iron Islands. Unless it is a nuclear blast wiping them all out a la Doom 2.0, I don't care about what happens there.

[Werthead]

80,000 sounds like a lot. Not for GRRM, but in terms of being an average. How many paperback pages would it be? Approximately?

As said above, about 300 pages or so, probably with a larger font size. AGoT was 298,000 pages and is about 800 pages in paperback.

So, 3 appearances by GRRM but 3 already read chapters. Yeah, we've reached the upper limit for TWoW material...which is hopeful, I have to admit.

George inadvertently gave away something like a quarter of AFFC (in number of chapters anyway, not overall book size) in sample chapters before it came out, so he massively dialled it back for ADWD and it looks like he's being similarly careful for TWoW. I believe he's only one or two chapters short of the number of sample chapters he released for ADWD at this point, and they'll want at least one new one to release in the months running up to release, so I'd be surprised if we saw a lot more.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

As said above, about 300 pages or so, probably with a larger font size. AGoT was 298,000 pages and is about 800 pages in paperback.

George inadvertently gave away something like a quarter of AFFC (in number of chapters anyway, not overall book size) in sample chapters before it came out, so he massively dialled it back for ADWD and it looks like he's being similarly careful for TWoW. I believe he's only one or two chapters short of the number of sample chapters he released for ADWD at this point, and they'll want at least one new one to release in the months running up to release, so I'd be surprised if we saw a lot more.

Got any recollection as to which chapters were sample chapters for Feast and Dance?

[HexMachina]

Got any recollection as to which chapters were sample chapters for Feast and Dance?

You have the Pre-ADWD archive for the Dance samples. I suppose there was something similar for Feast at one point, but it doesnt seem to exit now.

[Veltigar]

You have the Pre-ADWD archive for the Dance samples. I suppose there was something similar for Feast at one point, but it doesnt seem to exit now.

Am I correct when I count 15 sample chapters for Dance? That' can't be right no? We have only gotten 10 chapters for Winds up untill now.

[Starks of Winter]

edit: wrong thread

[sifth]

Am I correct when I count 15 sample chapters for Dance? That' can't be right no? We have only gotten 10 chapters for Winds up untill now.

There were a lot of ADWD, chapters released though. 3 from Jon, 3 from Dany, 1 for Asha, 1 for Theon, 2 for Tyrion, 2 for Davos, 1 from Bran and the prolog.

So yea quite a lot of the book was released in sample chapters.

[Werthead]

AFFC was all of the ironborn chapters save only Victarion's last one, Areo Hotah's first one, Cersei's first two, Arya's first one, Sansa's first one (I think, that might be wrong), Jaime's first one, the first Sam one (with GRRM noting there would be a flipside chapter in ADWD, as indeed there was). Not Brienne's, as GRRM wanted to keep her a surprise as a POV (although he later admitted it was pointless, as everyone guessed she'd be a POV the second they finished ASoS) but I think pretty much every other POV had a chapter or two on the table beforehand. He didn't release the prologue though. That definitely stayed under wraps.

Remember that AFFC is a much shorter book than ADWD (two-thirds the size), so releasing that amount of material represents a much larger percentage of the whole book.

[Tb0ne]

I don't know about the other poster, but I saw it at WotW, in the comments to THIS POST.

It was posted by a user going by the name 'A Lurker', and this is what s/he wrote:

"From what I have heard the TWOW draft with roughly 800 pages done so far is a disaster according to everyone but Linda and Elio. GRRM has lost the plot and his editors are totally freaking out. He is not in the mood for a rewrite and the stuff is really bad."

It doesn't seem to contain any new information and is the kind of rumor you'd expect to be going around (the claim of GRRM "losing the plot" is already a common complaint with the recent books).

The name connected to that poster is "defiantusmc92": http://en.gravatar.com/1111

My detective skills tells me this person was born in 1992. That's ripe trolling age.

[BryndenBFish]

AFFC was all of the ironborn chapters save only Victarion's last one, Areo Hotah's first one, Cersei's first two, Arya's first one, Sansa's first one (I think, that might be wrong), Jaime's first one, the first Sam one (with GRRM noting there would be a flipside chapter in ADWD, as indeed there was). Not Brienne's, as GRRM wanted to keep her a surprise as a POV (although he later admitted it was pointless, as everyone guessed she'd be a POV the second they finished ASoS) but I think pretty much every other POV had a chapter or two on the table beforehand. He didn't release the prologue though. That definitely stayed under wraps.

Remember that AFFC is a much shorter book than ADWD (two-thirds the size), so releasing that amount of material represents a much larger percentage of the whole book.

Wert, have you ever listened to GRRM's old podcast from back in 2006? Check out Episode 6 where he reads the AFFC prologue and discusses it. Found the shifting POV perspective issue interesting as GRRM tried to write it (after abandoning the Ironborn/Dorne Prologue idea)

"It's the first part you'll read when you open the book. But it was not the first part I wrote. It was not even close to being the first part I finished. And indeed -- I took five years to write AFFC. By far the longest of any volume of ASOIAF. It was the most difficult volume for me and this chapter was a great part of that difficulty. Sometimes I think I spent a year just on this prologue, writing and rewriting it. You'll see from the samples that the prologue is from the viewpoint of a character named Pate. I actually wrote it from several other viewpoints at various points. Pate had a different name in the earliest take, and then I decided it shouldn't be Pate it should be Mollander, and then I decided no it shouldn't be Mollander, it should be Rosey, the serving wench. So I wrote a version that had her in it, seeing these characters from the outside. For a while I thought that was working, and then I decided no, that wasn't working at all. So I went back to Pate."

[Whitering]

Wow Brynden, thanks. I can't imagine the chapter from anyone's view other than Pate now. I guess any other acolyte would have worked. Rosie? lol

Pate just works because he is so innocuous, easy to act like a lecher and dimwitted I should think.

Edit, well, I just looked at the blog, got off his Wild Cards novel, so now he's traveling to Chicago.

The other entry I looked at was his Buy TOR books entry. I didn't much follow this Sad Puppies malarky, but there's only one book I want to order from TOR, thanks GRRM, oh, I suppose I might buy Knight of the Seven Kingdoms when that comes out.

[Rhodan]

The AFFC prologue writing is reminding me how he was unsure if Quentyn arrives in Meereen before Dany´s wedding or after and how he therefore has written several versions of his audience. In a way, this is a case when GRRM´s talent is a hindrance. He can imagine his fiction to be told in quite a lot of ways so it takes too much of time before he decides which is the best one.

[bald sneaky dude]

In the quote GRRM said there would be 13 POVs, he also said AGOT had 7 POVs, when it really had 9, so he was certainly in error and the quote can't be taken as fact. GRRM also said he thought there were 13, not that it was confirmed there were 13, so he is more likely confused than not, as 13 POVs is essentially an impossible number, given the number of confirmed minor POVs and unconfirmed major POVs. So you are in error here, not Brynden.

agot had 8 unless u are counting the prologue character too and GRRM most probably siad 7 cause ned died and 7 remained by the end of the book..anyway that is of little importance. 13 pov's is the appropriate number to cover all the characters in one book. there are 8 confirmed pov's. theon arya sansa ser barristan damphair tyrion victarion and sansa. everything beyond that is pure speculation. here is my 50 cents. cersei is a must(th eonly person in KL and martin said that the sand snakes will be appearing big time in twow). asha is with theon. arianne is heading to where connington is and jon and melisandre are on the same place. so we have 10 pov's out of 13. as for the remaining the speculation becomes even harsher cause martin said that daenerys and tyrion will intersect so that means we might get a glimpse of her through tyrion bu the also said that he is writing about dothraki which insinuates she will be a pov(unless he is writing for the 7th book which i doubt it). so i think dany will be a pov and we definetely need either jaimie or brienne depending on who martin chooses to keep alive. so 12/16. among the remaining bran is the most possible candidate and sam could be the epilogue. so hotah and davos remain which leads to 14 if he chooses both as pov's. there is a theory tho which ui support, that sansa will intersect with uncat jaimie brienne gravedigger and robert strong. so everything will be through sansa's pov which leaves an extra empty spot for davos or hotah and hence we have 13 pov's.

[Grrrod]

The AFFC prologue writing is reminding me how he was unsure if Quentyn arrives in Meereen before Dany´s wedding or after and how he therefore has written several versions of his audience. In a way, this is a case when GRRM´s talent is a hindrance. He can imagine his fiction to be told in quite a lot of ways so it takes too much of time before he decides which is the best one.

Talk about doing things the hard way.

[Reposado]

You have the Pre-ADWD archive for the Dance samples. I suppose there was something similar for Feast at one point, but it doesnt seem to exit now.

the board migrated around that time. pre affc stuff would have been on the old ezboard. you might be able to find it using the way back machine but that seems to be difficult with forums

[Cas Stark]

The name connected to that poster is "defiantusmc92": http://en.gravatar.com/1111

My detective skills tells me this person was born in 1992. That's ripe trolling age.

It wouldn't surprise me either way, that it's true or someone trolling. He doesn't seem like he is worrying at all about the book, which would have to mean either it's done or close enough that he's sure it will be ready before season 6, or, alternatively, that he's given up on the idea of getting the book out before season 6 altogether and so is taking his summer of fun anyway. I suspect it's the later and not the former and we're not getting Winds in q1 2016 now.

[Annarkie]

George's newest blog post features a picture of him with a monkey on his back. I wonder if that's a hint. :D

[ChillyPolly]

George's newest blog post features a picture of him with a monkey on his back. I wonder if that's a hint. :D

It's a reference to Wild Cards, which he just completed and delivered, thereby getting "another monkey off my back".

[Jay21]

Maybe he threw the number 13 out on purpose. We all know that there are more characters on the go right now. You know, the next Commander of the Night's Watch will be the 999th. So what, right? Well 999 is divisible by 13 and of course the 13 NC was the crazy badass that's creeping around Hardhome on my TV. How many times does 13 go in to 999 one might ask? 76 - 7+6 being 13. I don't know, it's possible that it's all coincidence and it's possible that there's really on 13 POVs in TWoW,