Hugo Drama III: Will "the ilk" come to Spokane?

[sologdin]

that is kinda weird, no? i am a monarchist but i want Xtreme Capitalism too--not an obviously rational combination.

[williamjm]

Apparently SP/RP was really all about "Ethics in Literary Journalism":

Gamergate. God, we missed you so much. :rolleyes:

Anyone else think But It's Really About Ethics In Game Journalism would have been a good name for a Culture Starship (perhaps a GCU)?

Social Justice Warrior could have been a good ship name for one of the Culture's ships as well.

[Zorral]

Re: the history of urban fantasy, my god. Charles De Lint, Mercedes Lackey, Roger Zelazny, Diane Duane. Tanya HUff. Hell, Daniel Manus Pinkwater if you want to go YA/middle grade. Bruce Coville, FFS.

To call Butcher the godfather is absurd.

I know I'm late to this particular sub-discussion but the site was down and I was too busy making a living anyway. :cheers:

That said, am I wrong to say the real source of urban fantasy that inspired thousands of aspiring writers wasn't a book author at all but the Buffy series?

Though, yes, War for the Oaks was published before Buffy showed up, but back in those days, War for the Oaks and the ancillary Borderlands elves in our world anthologies were, according to the authors themselves (most of whom were long time real life friends too), their way of showing fantasy too could be a version of punk -- in hopes of following in the vastly critically acclaimed 1980's cyber punk wave.

[sologdin]

the 'source,' the arche in a derridean sense, is more likely items such as stoker's dracula and shelley's frankenstein, which slip fantasy elements into allegedly real urban settings.

[TannerSack]

tanner--

the thread i popped in there ran for almost seven months, and does not appear to be in jest. the first post refers back to a prior instance of the same discussion, also serious.

You are right in part, but the posts were mainly focusing on Hugo finalists, the bulk of that spread over just a few months. I just think it would help the Hugos immensely if this huge forum would get more involved with broad discussion of what everybody would like to recommend as opposed to a focus on puppy movements(pun intended). Promoting some free thinking people out reading more and voting.

[sologdin]

i don't oppose you motion. good idea.

[Darth Richard II]

Jeez, have you read any of Hoyts blog? Basically she's mad shes not as popular as she thinks she should be, so, conspiracy.

[sologdin]

people read that objectivist's puerile website?

[Yagathai]

I know I'm late to this particular sub-discussion but the site was down and I was too busy making a living anyway. :cheers:

That said, am I wrong to say the real source of urban fantasy that inspired thousands of aspiring writers wasn't a book author at all but the Buffy series?

I can't speak to what inspired thousands of aspiring writers, but Buffy wasn't even in the neighborhood of pioneering urban fantasy.

[Cubarey]

I googled it, and regretted doing so. Torgersen came up with it. It stands for Cliquish, Holier-than-thou, Obnoxious Reactionary Fanatics. Apparently he doesn't know what "reactionary" actually means, but then he's not the first conservative I've seen use the word as though it just means "someone who over-reacts."

Torgersen came up with the name to differentiate between SMOF's (who are normal good people) and the really snubbish elites. Those of us on the right use CHORF and SJW because they are far easier to type out then " Perpetually Outraged, Searching For Offense, Quick to Accuse Racism/Sexism/Homophobia/Privilege/Patriarchy, Holier Than Thou, Politics Before Fun, Unholy Cross Between Communists and Puritans, Twitter Lynch Mob Forming, Career Sabotaging, Social Justice Crusaders." http://monsterhunternation.com/page/2/

feudalists and anarcho-cappies are both premised theoretically on an absence of state power and are likely to be inegalitarian. they disagree on other particulars, of course.

Solo:

I am going to have to report you to the Parties Central Committee so that you are sent to a Re-Education camp where your heretical beliefs will be expunged. Fuedalists are not premised on the absence of state power it is rather an Economic System where the coercive power of the state is in the hands of the landed nobility and is exercised by said class with the aid of their lumpen-peasant hirelings.

Not sure how anarcho-capitalists and feudalists(!) can get along together. Those sound like some inadvertently hilarious websites though.

Over the long run such an alliance is inherently unstable but in the short and even medium run ideologically opposed groups can and will cooperate to defeat what they both believe to be a common and greater ideological threat. The most striking example of this is of course the alliance between the Capitalists states of the United States and the United Kingdom joining with the Soviet Union to Defeat the Fascists in the Second World War. A second example is the Soviet-Sino Alliance of the late 40's, 50's and 60's where the Stalinist and post Stalinist Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the heretical (or at least politically confused) People's Republic of China allied against the Capitalists and there Neo-Fascist allies. A third would be the Spanish Communist and Syndico-Anarchist temporary alliance against the Fascist and Monarchist forces under Franco during the Spanish Civil War (of course the Communist-Syndicalist Alliance collapsed due, to depending on one's viewpoint, the treachery of the Syndicalists or the betrayal of the Republican cause by the Communists).

.

[Werthead]

Anyone else think But It's Really About Ethics In Game Journalism would have been a good name for a Culture Starship (perhaps a GCU)?

Social Justice Warrior could have been a good ship name for one of the Culture's ships as well.

Give this man a (missile knife-shaped) medal.

[Cubarey]

I can't speak to what inspired thousands of aspiring writers, but Buffy wasn't even in the neighborhood of pioneering urban fantasy.

I would say that there are pretty clear links between the works of Anne Rice and Bram Stoker. Moreover, should not we at least acknowledge that Mary Shelly's Frankenstein has elements of the Urban novel so that it should be considered to be at least a proto- Urban Novel ?

[sologdin]

cub--

disagreed that feudalism needs much of a state. basic premise of manorialism is that administrative, judicial, and other legal functions are for the landowner. it's anti-federalism and 'libertarianism' in a nutshell.

Perpetually Outraged, Searching For Offense, Quick to Accuse Racism/Sexism/Homophobia/Privilege/Patriarchy, Holier Than Thou, Politics Before Fun, Unholy Cross Between Communists and Puritans, Twitter Lynch Mob Forming, Career Sabotaging, Social Justice Crusaders

an odd series of accusations. the first item does not deny the legitimacy of the outrage, and is otherwise kinda empty of substance. second: vigilance is wrong? third: does not deny the legitimacy of those concepts. fourth: uh...wut? five: the notion that 'fun' is apolitical is perhaps the irreducible difference between the rightwing and everyone else. six: kinda an unintelligible commingling there. 7: silly confltion of rightwing praxis with wtf if i know. 8: BS. ninth: no need to conflate leftwing activism with rightwing religious war? i see no reason to credit any of these charges. liberals concerned with civil right on the basis of race, gender, &c. are not communists. goodness. y'all need to learn how to make distinctions. it reduces the right's always already attenuated credibility when they just lump me with cappy liberals.

[Shryke]

Seriously people, when you use "commie" like a generic insult, you just expose the fingertip shallowness of your own understanding of any situation involving human interaction.

[The King in Black]

Has anyone read 'Yes Virginia, there's a Santa Claus' ? Might have been titled "Christians rock, God exists, Jesus is beeest !" God's not Dead was more subtle IMO.

[Cubarey]

Seriously people, when you use "commie" like a generic insult, you just expose the fingertip shallowness of your own understanding of any situation involving human interaction.

I agree it is inaccurate and misleading; the preferable term should be "Fellow Traveler", not to include only those who are sympathizer's of the goals of the Communist Party, but more broadly as those who do not share the goals but share many common beliefs but which may oppose either the Party itself or some but not all of its goals and beliefs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fellow_traveller

[Little Valkyrie]

Has anyone read 'Yes Virginia, there's a Santa Claus' ? Might have been titled "Christians rock, God exists, Jesus is beeest !" God's not Dead was more subtle IMO.

"One Bright Star" should be subtitled "Please Don't Sue Me, Estate of C. S. Lewis". Yes, I know it's an intentional homage, but it's like he put the legendarium of Narnia through a word filter and crossed it with the villains from That Hideous Strength to produce something with none of the strengths of either. To provide a quote from one of its villains:

“Child? Nonsense. It was a mere by-product of conception. It was nothing more than a minor side effect of the rite needed to summon up certain, shall we say, priapic manifestations of the life-energy. You, of all people, should realize that this world is nothing but a mask hanging over an abyss! You said so yourself, just now! And a brave soul must follow the commands of the life force, even if it means trampling the bourgeoisie rules of small-minded conformists. The vital energies only reach their peak with the culmination of the libido! The ancients knew it! The Aztecs and the magicians of Egypt knew it.”

[Lyanna Stark]

that is kinda weird, no? i am a monarchist but i want Xtreme Capitalism too--not an obviously rational combination.

You are now dead to me and a Traitor to the Cause. I shall go cry in a cupboard. :crying: :bawl:

"One Bright Star" should be subtitled "Please Don't Sue Me, Estate of C. S. Lewis". Yes, I know it's an intentional homage, but it's like he put the legendarium of Narnia through a word filter and crossed it with the villains from That Hideous Strength to produce something with none of the strengths of either. To provide a quote from one of its villains:

Well, good grief. Although "The vital energies only reach their peak with the culmination of the libido!" could be an interesting battle cry. If you really wanted to confuse your enemies. It would probably work if shouted when drunk, too.

Anyone else think But It's Really About Ethics In Game Journalism would have been a good name for a Culture Starship (perhaps a GCU)?

Social Justice Warrior could have been a good ship name for one of the Culture's ships as well.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Darth Richard II]

Anyone else think But It's Really About Ethics In Game Journalism would have been a good name for a Culture Starship (perhaps a GCU)?

Social Justice Warrior could have been a good ship name for one of the Culture's ships as well.

Oh man, post of the decade right here. That's not sarcasm, I mean it!

I miss Banks. :(

[Jo498]

No kidding: when I was about 14 Greenpeace's "Rainbow Warrior" inspired my historical fantasy series where the elite troups of one faction would be called rainbow riders. (I was blissfully unaware of any gay/lesbian connotation of the rainbow colors then). One book would have been called: Return of the Rainbow Riders.