Small Questions v. 10100

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

In Bran's 1st chapter in Dance Summer finds the dead men, presumably the mutineers from Craster's based on the description of Ollo Lophand. BUT Summer counts 10 and one of the mutineers broke his neck falling out of the loft at Crasters. So are these not the mutineers? Did they pick up another black brother along the way? Or is this an error?

I count only Dirk, Ollo Lophand, Garth of Greenway, Mawney, Alan of Rosby, Clubfoot Karl, Orphan Oss, Grubbs, and Muttering Bill. Perhaps there's one whose name we never learned? Or it is an error...

[SouthernIslander]

Thanks. That makes a fair bit of sense.

[Masha]

I was rereading GOT and in one of the latest Dany chapters - the one where she had miscarriage, as she was carried over to a Mirri Maz tent, she saw there shapes "She glimpsed the shadow of a great wolf, and another like a man wreathed in flames."

Any guesses about the man wreathed in flames?

[Jak Scaletongue]

I was rereading GOT and in one of the latest Dany chapters - the one where she had miscarriage, as she was carried over to a Mirri Maz tent, she saw there shapes "She glimpsed the shadow of a great wolf, and another like a man wreathed in flames."

Any guesses about the man wreathed in flames?

Stannis?

[DarkSister1001]

I count only Dirk, Ollo Lophand, Garth of Greenway, Mawney, Alan of Rosby, Clubfoot Karl, Orphan Oss, Grubbs, and Muttering Bill. Perhaps there's one whose name we never learned? Or it is an error...

Right, I only counted 9 too. But Summer thinks "Men. The stink of them filled the world. Alive, they had been as many as the finger's on a man's paw (10), but now they were none." I wasn't sure if it was a clue, error, or if Summer just rounded to the nearest paw.

[Lady Beefheart]

Doing a reread, and these came up:

In GoT, they say that the oldest dragon skulls in King's Landing are thousands of years old, but then they say that Aegon's dragon skulls are the oldest. If Aegon's conquest was around 300 years ago, were Aegon's dragons already thousands of years old during the conquest? How old were Aegon's dragons?

Also, what season was it during Robert's Rebellion? Dany was born in an autumn storm, right, so it would have to have been autumn, right? That means that there was only a 3-4 year winter, since in Bran I, they say it's been summer for 9 years, and Dany is 13. Why such a short winter?

[Balerion the kitten]

Doing a reread, and these came up:

In GoT, they say that the oldest dragon skulls in King's Landing are thousands of years old, but then they say that Aegon's dragon skulls are the oldest. If Aegon's conquest was around 300 years ago, were Aegon's dragons already thousands of years old during the conquest? How old were Aegon's dragons?

Well I think balerion was one of the 5 dragons that came to dragonstone with the targaryens. This was 12 years before the doom. And if the wiki is correct the doom was in 109bc (109 years before the conquest).

That being said though I think it was a blooper. Balerion was the oldest of all the targ dragons and if I'm remembering correctly he died at like 220 ish years.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Doing a reread, and these came up:

In GoT, they say that the oldest dragon skulls in King's Landing are thousands of years old, but then they say that Aegon's dragon skulls are the oldest. If Aegon's conquest was around 300 years ago, were Aegon's dragons already thousands of years old during the conquest? How old were Aegon's dragons?

Also, what season was it during Robert's Rebellion? Dany was born in an autumn storm, right, so it would have to have been autumn, right? That means that there was only a 3-4 year winter, since in Bran I, they say it's been summer for 9 years, and Dany is 13. Why such a short winter?

Dany was born in summer (284 AC). Early 282 AC, it was still winter, the Rebellion took place from mid/late 282 to 283 AC, and there have been no indications yet as to when the seasons turned.

The dragon skulls were not only from dragons since the Conquest. Balerion had been around 200 years old when he died in 94 AC, and Vhagar had been 181, IIRC. Yet there were skulls amongst those belonging to dragons from Targaryens centuries before, which Aenar had taken with him when he left Valyria.

Edit: as to the seasons, with summer in 284, and summer again starting in late 289/early 299, I'd say summer had just begun shortly before Danny's birth. 1,5-2 years of summer and winter, with a short autumn and spring in between.

[Mychel_Redfort]

Right, I only counted 9 too. But Summer thinks "Men. The stink of them filled the world. Alive, they had been as many as the finger's on a man's paw (10), but now they were none." I wasn't sure if it was a clue, error, or if Summer just rounded to the nearest paw.

Well, Summer thinks "as many as the fingers on a man's paw", not "as many as the fingers on a man's paws", so maybe the wolves killed only five mutineers, and four others had died before ?

[DarkSister1001]

Well, Summer thinks "as many as the fingers on a man's paw", not "as many as the fingers on a man's paws", so maybe the wolves killed only five mutineers, and four others had died before ?

Ah crap, I didn't consider the sentence construction...now I have more questions. lol

[Lost Melnibonean]

Search isn't working and I'm looking for some specific threads, please and thank you! So, I'm looking for any information about greyscale and whether or not it can affect dragons - are there any threads on this? And the other one I'm looking for is the theory that the Others are the result of a disease that spreads throughout the body - this one I'm sure I've read here, but I can't find it in my history, and apparently I didn't comment and wasn't following it.

Thank you everyone!

You can always use Mindchap's copyrighted search in google...

search terms site:http://asoiaf.westeros.org

[Lost Melnibonean]

In Bran's 1st chapter in Dance Summer finds the dead men, presumably the mutineers from Craster's based on the description of Ollo Lophand. BUT Summer counts 10 and one of the mutineers broke his neck falling out of the loft at Crasters. So are these not the mutineers? Did they pick up another black brother along the way? Or is this an error?

I'm sure those were the mutineers but I can't explain the discrepancy.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I was rereading GOT and in one of the latest Dany chapters - the one where she had miscarriage, as she was carried over to a Mirri Maz tent, she saw there shapes "She glimpsed the shadow of a great wolf, and another like a man wreathed in flames."

Any guesses about the man wreathed in flames?

Just another clue for R+L=J. That makes more sense to me than anything else the description was meant for the reader not the character. Here's a good thread...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/70998-who-are-the-spirits-in-the-tent-during-mmds-ritual/

[Lost Melnibonean]

Right, I only counted 9 too. But Summer thinks "Men. The stink of them filled the world. Alive, they had been as many as the finger's on a man's paw (10), but now they were none." I wasn't sure if it was a clue, error, or if Summer just rounded to the nearest paw.

I only have 5 fingers on my paw. I have 20 on my paws.

[Winter Rose Crown]

Taking away Sansa's legitimate rights are a big deal especially since we are talking about a very sweet plum. So I'd expect him to spell out his reasons and what he wants but of course plot will dictate.

well, that's what I'm saying. I don't think he did take away sansa's rights. I don't think it said, "Jon is heir to winterfell" I think it just said, "Jon is now Jon Stark". As Sansa tells Ramsey in the show,

a trueborn will always have the better claim. Which is why Waldas trueborn son is a threat to Ramsay.

I think Sansa can still claim Winterfell, Robb just assumed she wouldn't be around to have the chance.

[Lost Melnibonean]

well, that's what I'm saying. I don't think he did take away sansa's rights. I don't think it said, "Jon is heir to winterfell" I think it just said, "Jon is now Jon Stark". As Sansa tells Ramsey in the show,

a trueborn will always have the better claim. Which is why Waldas trueborn son is a threat to Ramsay.

I think Sansa can still claim Winterfell, Robb just assumed she wouldn't be around to have the chance.

"A king must have an heir. If I should die in my next battle, the kingdom must not die with me. By law Sansa is next in line of succession, so Winterfell and the north would pass to her." His mouth tightened. "To her, and her lord husband. Tyrion Lannister. I cannot allow that. I will not allow that. That dwarf must never have the north."

Catelyn V, Storm 45

[Priscilla]

And from the same chapter, a few pages on (I just reread it, coincidentally!):

'Why do you lie to yourself? Arya's gone, the same as Bran and Rickon, and they'll kill Sansa too once the dwarf gets a child from her.'

Robb has cut his losses. He correctly recognises that the Sansa-Tyrion marriage is about the claim to Winterfell and is, I think, working with the information he has. I don't think Robb is indifferent towards Sansa or Arya (after all, he laments quite a lot when news breaks of the Sansa marriage about how he should've traded Jaime for Sansa after all and married her to Loras Tyrell... me too, Robb, me too), but I think he's gone through a similar moment as Jon eventually goes through where he realises he's in all likeliness not going to see them again and realises he has to get on with it, and he can't let the Lannisters take over the seat of the Starks. I think he genuinely believes that's what's going to happen to Sansa too and he has no way of going and getting her back within the following nine months. Catelyn agrees as well that Winterfell can't fall to the Lannisters when Robb says the quote in the post above, so she switches tack from arguing for Sansa's rights to Arya's, which is why we get the quote I posted.

[The Red Widow of Coldmoat]

Even if Robb thinks that Sansa is as good as dead, he still has to disinherit her. As noted above, in the event of Sansa's assumed death, the Lannisters would derive their claim to Winterfell from Sansa's hypothetical child with Tyrion. Robb has to disinherit Sansa to keep this potential child from being heir.

[Priscilla]

Yes, I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I'm suggesting he sees it especially moot because Sansa is good as dead, in comparison with Arya who is also as good as dead to Robb (and pretty much everyone), and even if she [sansa] isn't there's no way he can allow for that scenario to happen. He's planning for a sudden death, and he knows in the immediate he doesn't have the ability to retrieve her and kill Tyrion and dispose of any child, which is the only way Winterfell can go to Sansa without going to a Lannister, so he can't incorporate that as part of his plan. Hence the only option is to disinherit Sansa and not think about it as depriving as a Stark of her rights but instead keeping Winterfell in the hands of Ned's last surviving child and someone who could be seen as an actual Northern heir, which is how he argues it to Cat (before pulling rank). In other words, if Robb's plan goes ahead it doesn't matter whether Sansa is around or not to claim Winterfell, and he knows that, which was the original claim in contention, but I'm adding that he also knows that disinheriting his sister is a big deal (I do wonder how Sansa's letter factored into this though) and is using the precarious situation of Arya and Sansa and the immediate need to prevent the Lannisters from claiming Winterfell as justification for getting on with the show.

[Masha]

Even if Robb thinks that Sansa is as good as dead, he still has to disinherit her. As noted above, in the event of Sansa's assumed death, the Lannisters would derive their claim to Winterfell from Sansa's hypothetical child with Tyrion. Robb has to disinherit Sansa to keep this potential child from being heir.

I need to reread that part, but didn't that chapter also implied that Sansa is being disinherited to prevent Lannisters using her claim ?