[BOOK SPOILERS] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

[Le Cygne]

Pretty much, I don't think in the books she trust LF. Yeah, she goes along with his schemes. But, while in the Vale, her decisions are much more understandable. As I pointed out earlier, while she is in the Vale, she has no viable means of getting home safely. And she has nobody in the Vale that she can really trust.

Contrast that with show situation where she is home. And the fact Stannis' army is approaching and her brother is LC of the NW.

In the books he scares her into submission, saying things like do you want more blood on your hands? And she comes right out and says she's lying to him.

Again, to the ones who are trying to make this thread into a debate thread:

This is the complain about the show without repercussion thread.

The mods said stop derailing it last time, so stop.

Here, what the mods said last time:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/128401-book-spoilers-rant-and-rave-without-repercussion/?p=6976904

[OldGimletEye]

She clearly doesn't trust LF in the books, but I guess because she's not actively stabbing people it must mean she's passive and stupid and buying into his mentality :rolleyes: .

So like what you are saying is that it isn't necessary to go like all Colonel Braddock or Rambo in order to demonstrate you don't trust someone.

Hmm. What an interesting concept.

[Johnsmith]

The only one who

In the books he scares her into submission, saying things like do you want more blood on your hands? And she comes right out and says she's lying to him.

Again, to the ones who are trying to make this thread into a debate thread:

This is the complain about the show without repercussion thread.

The mods said stop derailing it last time, so stop.

Every thread, every paragraph you say the same thing Sansa, pages and pages, of Sansa rape, Sansa rape, Sansa rape.

Your like talking parrot who doesn't say anything else. If that isn't derailing a thread into your own concept. I dunno what is

[Johnsmith]

I don't understand why Sansa and Ramsey is terrible and the worst thing to happen in the history of the world and Dany and Drogo were fine...

Drogo was Dany's Sun and Stars, her lover. She was forced into it by her brother do not wake the dragon cruelty. Although what she had felt for him thought of him changed. She was scared frightened terrified, at the beginning of her wedding night, that changed later in the evening.

His enemies would call him a brutal savage, She called him her Sun and Stars he the Moon of his life.

Ramsey according the books hates all women, he hates his dad for what he did to his mother. Where his hatred psychosis come from. Figuratively born in avatar. The leader of a pack of sadists who are in competition. He tortures his plaything the only thing that he bonded with out of control until tiring of it completely from displeasure. Ramsey kills to gain his place competing, a born psychotic killer

Different to Joff who considered everything as a slight to his authority, his right, because of his insecurity his megalomania comes from feeling threatened. Upon having authority has made him from a cruel teenager into a psycho. He had probably peeked on his mom and Jamie or found out from somewhere else driving him insane. Why disrespects his mom and family, tormenting Sansa. Ze mad king complex

[Winter's Knight]

Who the fuck said Dany and Drogo were fine?

Just because you fall in love with your rapist and manage to torture some agency out of the situation it doesnt magically make it not rape and it doesnt make the fact that your a fourteen-year-old girl with the most bizarre views on love resulting from a life of emotional and physical abuse any less problematic.

:cheers:

So like you should totally sit with me.

[OldGimletEye]

The only one who

Every thread, every paragraph you say the same thing Sansa, pages and pages, of Sansa rape, Sansa rape, Sansa rape.

Your like talking parrot who doesn't say anything else. If that isn't derailing a thread into your own concept. I dunno what is

I think you need to back off a little. Her comments are well within the subject matter of this thread. If she wants to focus on Sansa's portrayal, then what's the problem?

[Le Cygne]

So like what you are saying is that it isn't necessary to go like all Colonel Braddock or Rambo in order to demonstrate you don't trust someone.

Hmm. What an interesting concept.

Or Thug Brienne! :lol:

[Chebyshov]

The only one who

Every thread, every paragh you say, the same Sansa, pages and pages, of Sansa rape Sansa rape Sansa rape.

Your like talking parrot who doesn't say anything else. If that isn't derailing a thread into your concept. I dunno what is

Sansa being reduced to a victim in need of saving is a very serious complaint about the show.

"Season 5 Sansa definitely has a mentality about her," Turner said. "She goes through a lot of hardships this season, as per usual, but she really approaches them with a different mentality. I think that's what makes the season really quite special for her"

I think what bothers me the most about stuff like this is that how on Earth was the dinner scene demonstrating any agency on the part of Sansa? Did they think if they had her play along, we'd like...forget that she wasn't thrilled with the Boltons or something?

Also Myranda is bothering me more and more. I see three options for her:

1. She'll betray Ramsay...which will do what exactly?

2. She'll sub in as the woman facing the brunt of his abuse (not that Sansa won't be mistreated, but they're not going to want to be "controversial" because of the backlash they had last year)

3. She'll be complicit with Ramsay and another torturer of Sansa

Clearly 1 and 2 and 2 and 3 aren't mutually exclusive (though 1 and 3 are), but just. WHAT IS THE POINT.

[Le Cygne]

I think you need to back off a little. Her comments are well within the subject matter of this thread. If she wants to focus on Sansa's portrayal, then what's the problem?

I have him on ignore, I don't care what he says. I am so used to Sansa haters, it's not even funny. But thank you.

And that's another criticism, they know there's all this hate out there, and yet they did this. It's far worse on other sites.

[Mindwalker]

This. They also hate her. I call it revenge of the nerds. They are getting back at some cheerleader who rejected them in high school.

OMG. They are Chuck Lorre!

[Chebyshov]

OMG. They are Chuck Lorre!

100%. Evidenced by their Good Guy^TM trope (particularly their reading on Tyrion).

[Mourneblade]

Yeah, he doesn't even remotely see her as a person, you can see that so clearly in the text. It's never about her, always about him. She's a thing to him. He's describing his plans for her and says with his brains and her mother's looks, ... in other words, she's not even there.

I honestly think they are doing this to set her up, to make her take the blame when things go wrong. And I think it's very possible that after being Darth Sheep all season, heading straight for the slaughter, they will have her turn down Brienne yet again, and go back to him.

So she replaces a minor character, but is not even as well regarded as she was. She's given the minor character's rape, but not the minor character's sympathy. Everyone is blaming her, because she's stupid and she chose this. They wrote it this way to set her up for victim blaming.

I disagree a bit with this assessment... IMHO LF in the books and more so in the show was driven to power by his infatuation of Cat.... I believe he set this whole thing in motion in an attempt to eliminate Ned so that he could then step in romantically... It is more subtle in the books but it certainly showed that it was the case in the show, especially with his attempt in Renly's camp.

I think after Cat dies he moves his infatuation to Sansa, the seed of which was planted the first time he sees her at the tourney...I also believe that he is being consumed by power and the game itself, but in a twisted way it, in his mind, he justifies it all for his desire for Sansa...the same way he justified it, in his mind, for his desire for Cat...

I believe he is an ambitious man, but his ambition has been fueled by his desire. Instead of nerd gets spurned, builds million dollar company, then wins the love of the cheerleader, it becomes more of nerd gets spurned, builds million dollar company, and said company accidentally causes the death of said cheerleader, and now is focusing on daughter, but left to its own devises said company would be the death of her as well... since said company has become something that has grown beyond the control of the nerd, and the nerd has become a slave to power and the company lol...

Hope that made sense.

[Johnsmith]

Sansa being reduced to a victim in need of saving is a very serious complaint about the show.

I think what bothers me the most about stuff like this is that how on Earth was the dinner scene demonstrating any agency on the part of Sansa? Did they think if they had her play along, we'd like...forget that she wasn't thrilled with the Boltons or something?

Also Myranda is bothering me more and more. I see three options for her:

1. She'll betray Ramsay...which will do what exactly?

2. She'll sub in as the woman facing the brunt of his abuse (not that Sansa won't be mistreated, but they're not going to want to be "controversial" because of the backlash they had last year)

3. She'll be complicit with Ramsay and another torturer of Sansa

Clearly 1 and 2 and 2 and 3 aren't mutually exclusive (though 1 and 3 are), but just. WHAT IS THE POINT.

Yes it does need to be voiced within certain consideration appropriately. However every single thread is reduced by that particular person who only says the samething constantly in complete repetition always and forever. i cannot think of anything else they have had to say here. it is so tedious.

Hey I do not agree with any treatement of her character. I do not agree with how her character has been butchered. I do not agree with the illogical course that her arc has taken.

Although I will be shouting screaming jumping up and down doing backflips at her arc's end. I cannot stand that loathsome miserable person taking up anymore of viewing time.

[Cas Stark]

Sansa being reduced to a victim in need of saving is a very serious complaint about the show.

I think what bothers me the most about stuff like this is that how on Earth was the dinner scene demonstrating any agency on the part of Sansa? Did they think if they had her play along, we'd like...forget that she wasn't thrilled with the Boltons or something?

Also Myranda is bothering me more and more. I see three options for her:

1. She'll betray Ramsay...which will do what exactly?

2. She'll sub in as the woman facing the brunt of his abuse (not that Sansa won't be mistreated, but they're not going to want to be "controversial" because of the backlash they had last year)

3. She'll be complicit with Ramsay and another torturer of Sansa

Clearly 1 and 2 and 2 and 3 aren't mutually exclusive (though 1 and 3 are), but just. WHAT IS THE POINT.

I feel #2 is a sure thing. I am convinced the horrible things that Alfie and Iwan were talking about are done to Myranda, or as a long shot Walda and not Sansa, I don't believe the show would go there with Sansa.

#1 & #2 combined is possible, I don't think #3 because she's low born, so Ramsay, if he abuses Sansa will do so on his own.

[Julia Martell]

:cheers:

So like you should totally sit with me.

I think our bromance was established long ago when we spent multiple pages trying to decide if Lord Yronwood’s paramour was a man or a woman.

Those were some fun times.

I think what bothers me the most about stuff like this is that how on Earth was the dinner scene demonstrating any agency on the part of Sansa? Did they think if they had her play along, we'd like...forget that she wasn't thrilled with the Boltons or something?

Also Myranda is bothering me more and more. I see three options for her:

1. She'll betray Ramsay...which will do what exactly?

2. She'll sub in as the woman facing the brunt of his abuse (not that Sansa won't be mistreated, but they're not going to want to be "controversial" because of the backlash they had last year)

3. She'll be complicit with Ramsay and another torturer of Sansa

Clearly 1 and 2 and 2 and 3 aren't mutually exclusive (though 1 and 3 are), but just. WHAT IS THE POINT.

The thing that gets me about Myranda is that I actually felt for her in that scene where she was randomly standing around naked. It was, like, “oh look, character establishment” and then it was, like, “why can’t you do that for the actual, canonical characters” because, yeah, why is she even there exactly?

[Elaena Targaryen]

Yeah, he doesn't even remotely see her as a person, you can see that so clearly in the text. It's never about her, always about him. She's a thing to him. He's describing his plans for her and says with his brains and her mother's looks, ... in other words, she's not even there.

I honestly think they are doing this to set her up, to make her take the blame when things go wrong. And I think it's very possible that after being Darth Sheep all season, heading straight for the slaughter, they will have her turn down Brienne yet again, and go back to him.

So she replaces a minor character, but is not even as well regarded as she was. She's given the minor character's rape, but not the minor character's sympathy. Everyone is blaming her, because she's stupid and she chose this. They wrote it this way to set her up for victim blaming.

Darth Sheep :lol: That's perfect for what the D's are doing to her character.

Ya know in the comics those kind of characters that are in awe of super villains and become their fodder because they want to learn from them are almost always pathetic, they deserve the blame for their own misfortunes and things never work out for them....

[Le Cygne]

I feel #2 is a sure thing. I am convinced the horrible things that Alfie and Iwan were talking about are done to Myranda, or as a long shot Walda and not Sansa, I don't believe the show would go there with Sansa.

#1 & #2 combined is possible, I don't think #3 because she's low born, so Ramsay, if he abuses Sansa will do so on his own.

Did you read all the interviews, though? From the various actors involved? Because it sure seems to point to that one thing.

This one in particular, but combine it with everything else:

http://www.zap2it.com/blogs/game_of_thrones_alfie_allen_promises_terrible_season_5_event-2015-04

[Anythingatall]

:cheers:

So like you should totally sit with me.

Right I have to post just to clarify what I meant.

I also agree with Julia Martell. My post was just badly phrased.

[Winter's Knight]

I think our bromance was established long ago when we spent multiple pages trying to decide if Lord Yronwoods paramour was a man or a woman.

Those were some fun times.

I remember that! I've been away from these forums too long.

[WSmith84]

Apparently those of us pointing out how stupid BatFinger's plan is are idiots; it's supposed to be stupid you guys! BatFinger is not meant to seen as a clever character, so our criticisms are clearly unwarranted.