Prince of the North Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 If so, what's the point? What does Sansa Stark have to gain by becoming Lady Bolton and wrapping Ramsay around her finger? If the plan is for Stannis to reinstate the Starks after deposing the Boltons, then why bother with this elaborate seduction? Why not just join up with Stannis and actually help your cause - or at least wait and see what happens? Furthermore, how does this plan make any sense for the Boltons? Roose himself said he has no authority or legitimacy among the Northern houses. So naturally, he marries his heir to a girl wanted for regicide and treason? If he has no support, then provoking a war with the king is probably not a good idea. Instead, he should hold Sansa hostage and try to trade her for troops to garrison the North, or at the very least seek royal permission to marry her as a way to shore up support. Roose is openly defying the king because Littlefinger hinted at an alliance? Laughable.It's not supposed to make sense. Ding & Dong came out and said that they put Sansa there because they thought it would make the Winterfell storyline more interesting - because to them, the Winterfell storyline is fArya. HA! Yes, in the same way that Littlefinger simply stating that the Vale "is his" actually makes it true even though it.so.laughably.IS.NOT! Also, in the same way that simply putting Sansa in a new dress suddenly makes her "a player" with her own agency when it.so.laughably.DOES.NOT! D&D storytelling 101! What's that supposed to convey? That if the woman is hot and skilfully sensual she can stop a psychopath from hurting her? Unfortunately, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I can't believe Jon Flow wasn't banned for that comment. Look at what some persons wrote in the Sansa thread, I'm surprised by nothing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 An interesting (possibly) thing about the whole Sansa/Ramsey issue is how readers judgement is clouded by the books. My unsullied husband thinks Ramsey is a bit of a witless victim. I haven't rewatched the episode so I don't know how much (if any) merit there is in this. Show Ramsey is certainly very different from book Ramsey though. He's much less awful in the show than the books. In the show, he had nothing to do with the miller's boys, we don't know really, what he did with the Winterfell people in the show, he hasn't gone out hunting for the Stark boys, he doesn't have as his favorite hobby, hunting, raping, flaying and murdering women. All he has done, as he told his father, is flay the enemies of House Bolton and kill one of his ex girlfriends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 He's much less awful in the show than the books. In the show, he had nothing to do with the miller's boys, we don't know really, what he did with the Winterfell people in the show, he hasn't gone out hunting for the Stark boys, he doesn't have as his favorite hobby, hunting, raping, flaying and murdering women. All he has done, as he told his father, is flay the enemies of House Bolton and kill one of his ex girlfriends. Well, they did show him "working on" a couple of flayed human bodies right there in Winterfell but I would not be surprised if most show only watchers kind of gloss that over or it simply didn't really register with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 If so, what's the point? What does Sansa Stark have to gain by becoming Lady Bolton and wrapping Ramsay around her finger? If the plan is for Stannis to reinstate the Starks after deposing the Boltons, then why bother with this elaborate seduction? Why not just join up with Stannis and actually help your cause - or at least wait and see what happens? Furthermore, how does this plan make any sense for the Boltons? Roose himself said he has no authority or legitimacy among the Northern houses. So naturally, he marries his heir to a girl wanted for regicide and treason? If he has no support, then provoking a war with the king is probably not a good idea. Instead, he should hold Sansa hostage and try to trade her for troops to garrison the North, or at the very least seek royal permission to marry her as a way to shore up support. Roose is openly defying the king because Littlefinger hinted at an alliance? Laughable.It's not supposed to make sense. Ding & Dong came out and said that they put Sansa there because they thought it would make the Winterfell storyline more interesting - because to them, the Winterfell storyline is fArya. Exactly. This is all one ever needs say about what they did to Sansa's arc. We couldn't possibly be interested in a storyline "without buy-in." Dorne? Well we need "buy-in" so best make Ellaria (a known face!) front a center and also send Jaime there. Winterfell? Why have a fake Stark when we can have a real one. Upping the tensions! Griff/Young Griff couldn't possibly be compelling, so let's just make everyone support the Targaryen we know! Buy-in. This shit kind of worked with Tywin at Harrenhal, though honestly it undercut Arya's development a bit. But we've seen it be much less successful recently, like with Craster's. And I can't help but feel like we're in another "pegs resetting" situation. My unsullied ladyfriend is going to flip and probably refuse to watch the show anymore. I expect there'd be a lot of this. It'd really be unforgivable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TepidHands Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 OMG TWOP! I miss it too! That was back in my BSG and LOST days. Do you remember the episodic Lost Bitterness Fiesta threads in TWOP before the corporate types shut it down? Now *THAT* was a true community! Very like this salon here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermione's Cat Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 So the Doom of Valyria, which wiped out the greatest civilization Planetos has ever seen, killing countless dragons and sorcerers, that spawned horrifying tales of demons and monsters that terrify even the most hardened of sailors, has as its only apparent after effect that it is a bit foggy? Really, book version an entire peninsula goes Krakatoa, show version, eh, nothing a bit of spackle and a few tapestries won't fix. Also, how the hell do you sail across Valyria in an afternoon, in a glorified fucking rowboat?!?! If we could give likes here, I would give you about 50 Million. Exactly what I thought. Apart from that, WHAT EVEN HAPPENED IN THAT EPISODE? It was so boring, I was kind of like in a stupor and didn't really pay attention, apart from at the scene changes. Zzzzz....oh a scene with Dany, what are they saying....Zzzzz.....Oh, a scene with Ramsay and Miranda.....Zzzzzz.... and so on. If I had to answer a quiz right now, I would remember nothing. Stupid stuff that wasn't in the books; or stuff that happened in the books but was completely warped beyond all recognition. P.S. Did I understand that correctly and Queen Selyse and Shireen left the Wall with Stannis? WTF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadco26 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 He's much less awful in the show than the books. In the show, he had nothing to do with the miller's boys, we don't know really, what he did with the Winterfell people in the show, he hasn't gone out hunting for the Stark boys, he doesn't have as his favorite hobby, hunting, raping, flaying and murdering women. All he has done, as he told his father, is flay the enemies of House Bolton and kill one of his ex girlfriends. Well he did also kill one of his own men just to build a false sense of trust with Theon in season 3 after Ramsay released Theon and told him to ride to Deepwood Motte in another completely nonsensical scene. I thought the scene where Reek revealed that Sansa saw him to Ramsay was setting up great tension for a finger flaying or something else brutal, only to be wasted with a kind pat on the hand and forgiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckface Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Will we get John Snow's death this season? I am kinda sure, because of all the Olly build up. What are your thoughts, guys & ladies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Empowering would mean manipulative. Dany changing Drogo concept of sex.. No she will just lie there like a dead zombie crying. Certainly not agreeing to marriage and its duties because that would mean rape. Certainly not Roose claiming rights of the first night Another thread being derailed by lack of intelligent descriptions based purely on hypothetical assumption. Attempting to spoil within complete bias. This thread has again hit the gutter, becoming a support group for the obsessively deranged. You know, I'm getting the feeling that complaints about Sansa having sex with Ramsay Bolton is really making you mad. In that case, I'll have to remind myself to complain about it more often, just to piss you off. If "deranged" means balking at the idea of young woman, whose character I care about, having sex with an enemy of her family and one of the worst psychopaths in Westeros, and just for the purpose of higher television ratings, then I'll gladly accept the title of "deranged". I guess I'll have to get a therapist for my "derangement". I wonder what she'll say when I tell her my mental problem is that I don't like the idea of a young lady being forced into sex she doesn't want to have. The idea of the sexy "Black Widow" that destroys men with the power of her vagina seems to be a pretty standard trope. But, like I said earlier my academic work wasn't in literature, so what in the hell would I know. Also, what I really dislike about this situation is the fact that D & D have been, apparently, planning this scenario since like season two. That really bugs the hell out of me because I think it's a bunch of horseshit that they have gone out of their way to contrive a scenario to get a young actress naked or having sex just as soon as they could legally get away with it. Most posters here have too much class to respond this nonsense. But, I am not one of them. Must have something to do with my derangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMouse@theTOJ Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Cas Stark, just give up all hope now. it's better than being horribly disappointed when you see that the bedding scene is actually happening. In D&D's mind being married to a monster and pouting at dinner = being empowered. It's horrible but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Well he did also kill one of his own men just to build a false sense of trust with Theon in season 3 after Ramsay released Theon and told him to ride to Deepwood Motte in another completely nonsensical scene. True, so he kills his own guys, he's a double crosser, kills/tortures/flays Bolton enemies and killed his ex. He still doesn't stack up too badly against Joff, or Tywin, show wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Cas Stark, just give up all hope now. it's better than being horribly disappointed when you see that the bedding scene is actually happening. In D&D's mind being married to a monster and pouting at dinner = being empowered. It's horrible but true. LOL. It's true they have outdone themselves every time I thought they couldn't be more stupid, but I still can't imagine, given the outrage that would occur, that they would do such a thing. But, they are quite stupid, so I admit it's possible and won't be totally shocked if it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Will we get John Snow's death this season? I am kinda sure, because of all the Olly build up. What are your thoughts, guys & ladies? There’s a reason we’re calling him Olly Chekov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hath4 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 LOL. It's true they have outdone themselves every time I thought they couldn't be more stupid, but I still can't imagine, given the outrage that would occur, that they would do such a thing. But, they are quite stupid, so I admit it's possible and won't be totally shocked if it happens. so you believe that the marriage will not be consummated? The preview for episode 6 supports that sites spoilers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 True, so he kills his own guys, he's a double crosser, kills/tortures/flays Bolton enemies and killed his ex. He still doesn't stack up too badly against Joff, or Tywin, show wise.Took the words right out from my mouth (fingers? ) Considering that Jamie murdered his own cousin in season two and is still one of the more sympathetic people, show!Ramsey really doesn't come off as that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 If so, what's the point? What does Sansa Stark have to gain by becoming Lady Bolton and wrapping Ramsay around her finger? If the plan is for Stannis to reinstate the Starks after deposing the Boltons, then why bother with this elaborate seduction? Why not just join up with Stannis and actually help your cause - or at least wait and see what happens? Furthermore, how does this plan make any sense for the Boltons? Roose himself said he has no authority or legitimacy among the Northern houses. So naturally, he marries his heir to a girl wanted for regicide and treason? If he has no support, then provoking a war with the king is probably not a good idea. Instead, he should hold Sansa hostage and try to trade her for troops to garrison the North, or at the very least seek royal permission to marry her as a way to shore up support. Roose is openly defying the king because Littlefinger hinted at an alliance? Laughable.It's not supposed to make sense. Ding & Dong came out and said that they put Sansa there because they thought it would make the Winterfell storyline more interesting - because to them, the Winterfell storyline is fArya.I am just trying to figure what the show runners hope to accomplish. I agree that nothing makes sense but they are so far off the rails, anything is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Oh, LOL, I forgot to mention..........I think I spotted The Sand Snakes and Madlleria's tent set up down the street. Oh wait, maybe that was just the seasonal flower salesman? Still, I wasn't going to open the flap and subject myself to Mama Madness and her spiel. I was too afraid I'd wind up like Depressed Doran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Took the words right out from my mouth (fingers? )Considering that Jamie murdered his own cousin in season two and is still one of the more sympathetic people, show!Ramsey really doesn't come off as that bad. Crazy isn't it? Though I've finally come around to like Iwan's performance. And, so far, he hasn't killed or attempted to kill any children either, unlike Theon or Jamie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I am just trying to figure what the show runners hope to accomplish. I agree that nothing makes sense but they are so far off the rails, anything is possible. There is no limit to how stupid it can get. She could take all her clothes off for Ramsay, and then say 'yo, I forgot, I have something for you I'll be right back...leave the room, and having previously put the candle in the window, she and Theon will be saved just in the nick of time. I repeat: There is no limit to how stupid, illogical or unbelievable the resolve to this dumbass plot can be, but I still believe it involves no sex for Sansa Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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