Night's_King666 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Just watched the after episode comments by the GOT writers and they officially said it is THE NIGHT'S KING. So we can now put the debate to bed now on who the WW leader is. My prediction, Jon Snow dies and the NK resurrects him and reveals that R'hllor is the great evil and Jon Snow joins him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Hoffman Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 There are theories that the WW aren't straight up baddies, mostly based off GRRMs Gray writing, but the most I can see the Others being shone in a good light would be something like a vengeance storyline. They are killers, brutal and remorseless, it would take something huge for us to be like "Well I guess they aren't THAT bad!"With that being said I've also been waiting for the red God to be shone in a dark light, as I doubt he is "God", but more along the lines of a powerful deity with powers, just not the alpha and omega. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KINGpanther Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 If he does the 'for the Watch' people better run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Godric Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Even with Martin's "gray" writing I feel like the Others have never been presented as anything but evil incarnate and I don't expect that to change. People have unrealistic opinions about what Martin is willing to cut out of a fantasy novel, and "the big baddie" isn't one of those things. That being said, I also don't think Martin is willing to cut out The Hero, and that is Jon. So, I don't see him becoming a turn cloak and fighting for the Others at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghosts Lunch Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I actually am starting to wonder if Mance will be a turncloak and a major general in the Others army, the show has killed him off but they are probably streamlining the Others leadership all into the Nights King, similar to how the Tyrells are being streamlined into Olenna etc On Mance though, I think there is something highly symbolic about him being switched with Lord of Bones, eg the earlier cloak story is about being a turn cloak, now we have him being clothed in bones and given a Lordly title which suggests Lordship over Wights etc Then there's the Pink Letter, he is made a cloak out of skins of the apparently dead Washerwomen, once again harping onto themes about turn cloak obviously but also skin changing in some capacity. Jon Snow on the other hand, will "live like a King" in Ghost to paraphrase Varymyr Sixskins, which is to say while being stabbed and warged in Ghost he will go on a journey where he learns his true heritage and claims it. He'll live beyond the Wall and make his way up to Brans cave though IMO (live like a King Beyond the Wall...). Everyone reckons Mel will do a Thoros but like stabbing Talisia to dispel Jeyne Westerling pregancy theories they seem to be making a point of taking Melisandre, Shireen, Selyse etc with Stannis's army to dispel these theories, it will probably be Bran who "calls Jon back from death" and Jon can re-warg his body. His time in Ghost will change him though... As for the Others, it's probably like those Sci Fi things where a Carbon based ecosystem is under threat by some terraforming process where it being replaced by some kind of Silicon based ecosystem for example, what constitutes "evil" is merely a matter of perspective and the Others merely exist in some fundamentally different rules of life Ultimately though life is an intricate mix of several forces and it is a matter of balancing them all out, eg there can be too much Earth. Fire, Air, Water. Eg we have heard the CoTF helped against the Others but that was because there was excess, they could just as easily get into conflict with the Fire, Drowned or Storm forces if they became excessive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HousePotterz Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 After "Hardhome," I find it very close to impossible that the Others are going to be anything to the people of this story besides what they are now: implacable evil. I have little doubt that they have some kind of motivation and reason for being, and that we will find out what that is before the curtain goes down, but I still think they will be the great threat that the characters who survive to the end have to come to grips with. I know Martin's story has (thus far) prided itself on subverting common tropes of fantasy literature, but without the overarching evil to confront, doesn't it just end up being a story like The Walking Dead, which could conceivably go on and on and on (and recycle the same old tired plot points over and over in the process). Also, after "Hardhome" I'm in the camp that believes Jon will not go from being The Hero in this story to an agent of its greatest evil. The books seem to provide even more evidence against this. Has anyone from the Jon becomes an Other camp explained his dream where he is clad in black ice wielding a flaming sword, casting the dead down from the Wall? Sounds Azor Ahai-ey to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dames do Moan Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 There are theories that the WW aren't straight up baddies, mostly based off GRRMs Gray writing, but the most I can see the Others being shone in a good light would be something like a vengeance storyline. They are killers, brutal and remorseless, it would take something huge for us to be like "Well I guess they aren't THAT bad!"With that being said I've also been waiting for the red God to be shone in a dark light, as I doubt he is "God", but more along the lines of a powerful deity with powers, just not the alpha and omega.Are they just running around being brutal killers though? They are going around "killing" as many people as possible, but they aren't fully killing them, they are bringing them back as wights. I think there is definitely going to be a fire ice showdown, in more ways then one, but specifically one will relate to the WW vs fire god/dragons, etc.What if they know fire magic is starting to run rampant and growing exponentially, and will eventually consume all of Westeros and kill anyone and everyone unless they're already "weighted" on team ice. So they are going around changing as many people as possible to protect them from completely dying. Or they are changing as many people to increase the size of their army against the team fire. And at the end they have the power to turn anyone wighted back to original.Granted, I don't think this is specifically going to happen, especially not show version, but I could definetly see things along these lines to add moral ambiguity to the WW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsyao Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Just watched the after episode comments by the GOT writers and they officially said it is THE NIGHT'S KING. So we can now put the debate to bed now on who the WW leader is. My prediction, Jon Snow dies and the NK resurrects him and reveals that R'hllor is the great evil and Jon Snow joins him. I don't understand what is the debate about, after watched the episode 8, everyone know there is a leader of the White walkers, hence the Night King, but is he the same "Night's King" the former Lord commander of the NW, then how the hell I know? Please don't repeat these BS such as D&D know the end of the book and all major plots again, D&D invent a lot of their own stuffs which are never in the novels, how do we know TV Night's King = book Night's King is one of the GRRM's future plot or one of D&D's invention? Otherwise you have to accept D&d spoil us the future book plots about Sansa marying Ramsay or Doran acutally does not have a daught as his heir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Just watched the after episode comments by the GOT writers and they officially said it is THE NIGHT'S KING. So we can now put the debate to bed now on who the WW leader is. My prediction, Jon Snow dies and the NK resurrects him and reveals that R'hllor is the great evil and Jon Snow joins him. First, I'm not sure how much HBO will deviate from GRRM books. That said, the legends in The World of Ice & Fire are saying that the Long Night was sent by the Lion of Night, apparently another name for the Stranger, the god of death. And it makes sense, because the Others are controlling the deads. The Long Night was called because men were using dark magic, possibly to create dragons, certainly the stuff of Blood Magic and Shadow Magic. I would not think the Others are nice guys. But maybe it will be possible to reach an agreement. Maybe, for now, they are just building up an army, to fight against R'hllor. But they would accept living men fighting for them. After all, Craster did have some agreement with them. And Jon already made alliances with men that were his enemies before. BTW, only the Stranger could raise dead, not R'hllor. Stoneheart would serve the Stranger, whose servants are justly "Silent Sisters". And curiously, Euron, said his gods were protecting him from the Silence. Of course, you can also discard the WoI&F legends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khorkalba Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 If Jon Snow ends up fighting for the Others as a wight, I will applaud GRRM for his unpredictability. I don't see it happening though. I'll applaud him even more if the Others turn out to be anything other than the evil baddies of the story and end up "winning". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow282 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Are they just running around being brutal killers though? They are going around "killing" as many people as possible, but they aren't fully killing them, they are bringing them back as wights. I think there is definitely going to be a fire ice showdown, in more ways then one, but specifically one will relate to the WW vs fire god/dragons, etc.What if they know fire magic is starting to run rampant and growing exponentially, and will eventually consume all of Westeros and kill anyone and everyone unless they're already "weighted" on team ice. So they are going around changing as many people as possible to protect them from completely dying. Or they are changing as many people to increase the size of their army against the team fire. And at the end they have the power to turn anyone wighted back to original.Granted, I don't think this is specifically going to happen, especially not show version, but I could definetly see things along these lines to add moral ambiguity to the WW."We're not just brutally slaughtering people, that would be evil! We're brutally slaughtering people, then bringing them back, enslaving them, and forcing them to brutally slaughter their friends and family. See, so not evil!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodraven's Bastard Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Just watched the after episode comments by the GOT writers and they officially said it is THE NIGHT'S KING. So we can now put the debate to bed now on who the WW leader is. My prediction, Jon Snow dies and the NK resurrects him and reveals that R'hllor is the great evil and Jon Snow joins him. Sounds like a very questionable and uncomfortable fantasy of yours to me. Just because you want it to be so does not make it so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night's_King666 Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 After "Hardhome," I find it very close to impossible that the Others are going to be anything to the people of this story besides what they are now: implacable evil. I have little doubt that they have some kind of motivation and reason for being, and that we will find out what that is before the curtain goes down, but I still think they will be the great threat that the characters who survive to the end have to come to grips with. I know Martin's story has (thus far) prided itself on subverting common tropes of fantasy literature, but without the overarching evil to confront, doesn't it just end up being a story like The Walking Dead, which could conceivably go on and on and on (and recycle the same old tired plot points over and over in the process). Also, after "Hardhome" I'm in the camp that believes Jon will not go from being The Hero in this story to an agent of its greatest evil. The books seem to provide even more evidence against this. Has anyone from the Jon becomes an Other camp explained his dream where he is clad in black ice wielding a flaming sword, casting the dead down from the Wall? Sounds Azor Ahai-ey to me... agreed. Well but when we see a NK flashback we will understand why he is this evil but he is still evil and so are the WW's/wights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night's_King666 Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Sounds like a very questionable and uncomfortable fantasy of yours to me. Just because you want it to be so does not make it so. are you serious ?? Did you miss entirely what i wrote ?? The GOT writers confirmed he is the NK. Get over yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sveto Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Didn't G. Martin say that there is no absolute evil and absolute good in his book. I think that Jon will somehow survive thanks to the walkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet199 Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I think Night's King is on the same level of evil as Mel. Mel believes she is doing the right thing and will kill thousands to achieve her goal, the Others are the same. I don't think believe a weepy backstory is necessary to explain/excuse evil behaviour, it's the present goals which are important and which drive the action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordImp Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 i think Bran may be the one to fight with the Others. I know he is with Bloodraven who is a Targ and with the Childrens who fought the Others. But i think there is something we dont know , in the story about the Last hero we never here the ending so i belive something strange happend there. I dont think the Childrens saved him , i think LH brokered a peace with the Others. After the Andal invasion the Childrens moved beyond the Wall to the lands where there enemy lives , i think the Childrens are done being friends with humans and want the Others to invade. Bloodraven has change side to the Childrens and are doing what there want , and Bran is possibly his successor. If the theory about the Last hero making peace with the Others is true , it's possible this happend by marriage. I think that the Stark's are descendants of the Others . Thats the great twist , the good guys of this series has the blood of the bad guys. And i dont think the Childrens are to Happy about Dragons , the Andals burned down the Weirwoods. Perhaps the Childrens see the dragons as a threat to the them and their weirwoods , though there arent many weirwoods left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkash Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 BTW, only the Stranger could raise dead, not R'hllor. Stoneheart would serve the Stranger, whose servants are justly "Silent Sisters". And curiously, Euron, said his gods were protecting him from the Silence. Kinda out of topic, but if only one of the Seven Gods ever displays some real mystique and surnatural powers, I truly wish it's the Stranger ! I think he's the most likely of the 7G to be born from one of the real magic forces of the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 High-level plot: Others and dragons need to "unite", i.e. annihilate each other for mankind to survive in a world without magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night's_King666 Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 High-level plot: Others and dragons need to "unite", i.e. annihilate each other for mankind to survive in a world without magic. i like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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