Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ran

[Book Spoilers] EP509 Discussion

Recommended Posts

I've in no way complained about book changes, especially because it hasn't even happened yet in there. There are many differences between show Stannis and book Stannis so already the show isn't going to be comparable to the books in what the characters are going to do. My problem is in the development of it in the show itself. I was just including the bit about the book's desperation to show something coming closer to what I think would make it more within possibility that Stannis would ever resort to it, even then I'd question it, but I wouldn't just think it was dumb.

My takeaway from it was that it had less to do with the desperation of the circumstances and more about just how deep in Stannis' brain Mel is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

D&D: we're not spoiling anything from the books this season.

D&D after tonight: oh no that's right from the books grrm told us that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Relevant quote from David Benioff from the Inside the Episode, and I'm bolding it so that you all read it:

You all need to take a seat when talking about D&D going off-book with Shireen's sacrifice. It's coming straight from GRRM.

Lol. Wow I was shocked earlier when I heard this was happening and I'm a show supporter, but if this is true--LMAO at all you purists. Maybe D&D should have been bold and changed the scene. Edited by TheWhiteRabbit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems like the Sons of the Harpy were killing the masters. Also, I heard some kind of chant. Are the former slaves the Sons of the Harpy? (I think the slaves chanted or hissed when Dany executed one of the former slave leaders)

Edited by Bear Claw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL at the fandom right now.

1. Certain fans: "STANNIS BURNING SHIREEN IS OFF-BOOK TRASH, HOW DARE D&D, THEY HAVE FUNDAMENTALLY MISUNDERSTOOD BOOK STANNIS' CHARACTER, GRRM WOULD NEVAH"

2. D&D: "George told us this happens."

3. Certain fans:

A. D&D ARE FILTHY LIARS, GRRM WOULD NEVAH, or

B. If GRRM does it, it will be SUPER AMAZING and WILL TOTALLY MAKE SENSE and WILL BE TOTALLY CONSISTENT WITH BOOK STANNIS' CHARACTER

"It may be that we shall lose this battle," the king said grimly. "In Braavos you may hear that I am dead. It may even be true. You shall find my sellswords nonetheless."

The knight hesitated. "Your Grace, if you are dead — "

" — you will avenge my death, and seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."

George RR Martin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people's reactions are so funny. Stannis was never a good guy to begin with. He killed his own brother for no other reason than to win the Iron Throne. Why was that OK for his character, but this burning his own daughter was somehow morally different?


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HBO has destroyed asoiafs only chance at a good tv version. When you alienate sansa and stannis fans in the same season you should lose creative control

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Next episode starts with the men at the camp feasting off some well done Shireen.

Stannis is a true military commander! Wake up people!!!! Bend the Knee or GTFO!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly my biggest question about the Shireen burning is what happens when Jon and Davos find out. In the books Davos travels to Skagos to find Rickon, but now Davos will be at Castle Black with Jon Snow which could lead to 2 possibilities. Jon tells Davos (for whatever reason) that Bran and Rickon are alive and Davos tries to find Rickon or that Jon marches south against Stannis which leads to his stabbing instead of the pink letter.

I watched the after show clip available on YouTube and later also available on HBO Go or OnDemand. I don't think D & D lied. They sounded like it is definitely Stannis who is responsible for sacrificing Shireen. Seriously....this shouldn't be such a shock. He has been having Melisandre burn people since the character was introduced. He was never a good guy.

Edited by TheFirstofHerName

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh Christ oh fuck oh man, I just watched the scene, omfg stannis must burn in the deepest part of the deepest 7th hell


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty confident that Stannis will arrive at Winterfell confident that they will prevail as Mel told them the sacrifice would ensure victory, only for them to be destroyed. Instead Jon will be stabby stabbed and it will be revealed that Mel was wrong about Stannis being AA, hence the icicles in the preview which will tell her to return to the wall, followed by Jon Snows resurrection at the end of the finale. Meanwhile I think Sansa and Brienne will either escape Winterfell having killed Ramsay or Roose, or they will get help from a stranger. I think that the Boltons will die by the others, the only fitting end for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people's reactions are so funny. Stannis was never a good guy to begin with. He killed his own brother for no other reason than to win the Iron Throne. Why was that OK for his character, but this burning his own daughter was somehow morally different?

Because an argument can be made it was a war and it actually helped avoiding the inevitable battle. This is just completely inexcusable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://grrm.livejournal.com/428946.html



For all of you who are enjoying OUTLANDER, the marvelous adaptation of Diana Gabaldon's time travel novels that just finished its first season on STARZ... well, the show is terrific, but the books are even better (as is so often the case)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people's reactions are so funny. Stannis was never a good guy to begin with. He killed his own brother for no other reason than to win the Iron Throne. Why was that OK for his character, but this burning his own daughter was somehow morally different?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Straight up book 6 spoilers with Shireen burning. Great to see the story move along for the first time in 5 years.

Yes, we've got some unadulterated TWOW spoilers up in here, although if you seriously thought Shireen was making it out of the books alive or that she wasn't going to die by burning, you haven't been paying attention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never really bought the idea that Stannis would be responsible for Shireen's fate, mainly for logistical reasons. The Wall is plenty dangerous at the end of ADWD and the road between where Stannis is and Castle Black is currently covered with several feet of snow that is impassible for his current southern movement. How they gonna meet? Plenty of book left but still. And even if it is consistent with what happens, the timing sucks because Stannis's snow march is one of the times when the reader feels most sympathy for him.



As for the rest, I thought it was a substandard episode.



I get what they are doing with Arya but I thought they could have trimmed the more disgusting aspects of "Mercy" as they did Tyrion's brothel visit. But instead we get two episodes of watching Meryn Trant Duggar it up.



Dorne was weak as usual, more silly stuff and Ellaria's submission is not earned like Arianne's was. It's actually completely implausible and obviously insincere.



Meereen was like last season's finale with Tyrion. They had it all set up and the just dropped it at the one yard line by completely changing motivations. And if we had to hear Shireen's screams, could we have at least gotten Dany losing it with Drogon?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't see them pulling this by going off book, I'm fully expecting book Stannis to walk the same dark, despicable path. But for book Stannis it makes more sense - his views on sacrifice are emphasised more heavily, and he's nowhere near as close to Shireen.

They rushed the hell out of the character development leading up to this, making it feel out of place and unlikely. It's a shame, it should've been an incredibly powerful turning point for the characters that the audience felt as well as saw. The way it went down felt more like shock tactics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×