Grimbold Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Sounds more like political correctness BS than anything else. I'll give him Sansa, not because of the rape's shock, but cause she her whole arc is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tagganaro Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I read that a while ago, and yes, like others have said, a lot of the criticism is actually book-related even though the author of the article hadn't read the books. 90% of his criticisms are directly from the books. But yes, it definitely goes without saying that the show has gone off the rails re: sexual violence this season. The added rape of Sansa, the attempted rape of Gilly, the gratuitous Trant scenes-- Just too much, and all show-created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovely Lyanna Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 To be honest I could care less what the New York Times thinks of this show or anything else for that matter. They need to look to their own sins, for the night is dark and full of terrors. I for one do not need them to tell me how to feel about something. I do not respect their opinion enough to pay them any mind. I love the show, but I hated the last episode. While I liked this season overall, the last episode just felt flat and illogical, at least to me. I have always felt that the show made good choices on what to keep in and what to keep out. I have also liked how they depicted things. While sometimes it has been very different then the way that I pictured it, I have still always enjoyed the show. Despite the fact that I hated this episode, I still love the show and will certainly continue to watch it. It's like the show was hovering at edge of the abyss of the hole that Martin dug for himself in the last two books. Then suddenly the show said I just can't help myself and threw itself down the same hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night'sQueen Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Ahh, so it's "Well, they never liked it anyways. They have an agenda!" Got it. Did you read the review? The criticisms mainly stem from D&D following the books and giving what this reviewer thinks is a stalled story: And “Game of Thrones” has been defined by that stretching — a lot happened in Season 5, but when you look at the overall framework, nearly all the characters are where they were when the season began. The usurping Boltons are still in Winterfell; Sansa is still on the run; Arya is still hiding in Braavos; the dragon queen Daenerys Targaryen and the sly dwarf, Tyrion, are still marooned in Essos; the Lannisters still occupy the castle in King’s Landing. This can be blamed on the show’s semidependent relationship with Mr. Martin’s novels, but viewers (like me) who haven’t read the books don’t care about that. The question is how much longer we’ll care at all. This reviewer doesn't even know how stalled the story is in the books, not having read them. D&D have actually moved Stannis's and Tyrion's stories ahead. But of course book fans are not happy with that. The reviewer also criticizes the walk of shame which IMO was a scene that was extremely true to the book. George stopped reading websites in the 90's, according to him. This is what I thought too. Are there any quotes indicating that he is considering changing his plans due to fans having figured a few things out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night'sQueen Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 I read that a while ago, and yes, like others have said, a lot of the criticism is actually book-related even though the author of the article hadn't read the books. 90% of his criticisms are directly from the books. But yes, it definitely goes without saying that the show has gone off the rails re: sexual violence this season. The added rape of Sansa, the attempted rape of Gilly, the gratuitous Trant scenes-- Just too much, and all show-created. The rape of Sansa isn't exactly show created. Having condensed the story to make Sansa take the place of fArya (an improvement IMO over Sansa sitting in the Vale wiping the nose of the most irritating character ever created) the rape by Ramsay is perfectly natural. And thankfully they didn't even hint at the more heinous things that GRRM did to Jeyne in that situation (dogs, making Theon participate). Now THAT'S gratuitous. Too much so even for cable. I'll take the invented sadism of Trant over watching Arya get to him through an attempted seduction. The Mercy chapter was a lot more disturbing to me than how they did it in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 The rape of Sansa isn't exactly show created. Having condensed the story to make Sansa take the place of fArya (an improvement IMO over Sansa sitting in the Vale wiping the nose of the most irritating character ever created) the rape by Ramsay is perfectly natural. You just stated that Sansa in Winterfell wasn't a concocted show contrivance, and then proceeded to describe exactly how the show concocted it. So, actually not "natural" at all, but artificial and silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night'sQueen Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Incorrect (and obtuse). Putting Sansa there was a show decision (and a good one), the rape was a natural outcome. To put Sansa there but not have Ramsay rape her would be nonsensical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Incorrect (and obtuse). Putting Sansa there was a show decision (and a good one), the rape was a natural outcome. To put Sansa there but not have Ramsay rape her would be nonsensical.To put Sansa there in a leap of logic and badly written arc that has no payoff whatsoever and that we can now say for sure that only worked to the detriment of her character development and to give us the shocking event of her rape is just bad writing. Sorry, but that's just how it is.They barely attempted to make a plot out of this year's storylines. Characters are erratic and make little sense, and their decision-making depends on what the plot needs them to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 You just stated that Sansa in Winterfell wasn't a concocted show contrivance, and then proceeded to describe exactly how the show concocted it. So, actually not "natural" at all, but artificial and silly. It was no more concocted than the way GRRM got Jeyne Poole in the exact same situation. Really stop. It's blatantly obvious you can't separate the books from the show. It's only contrived if you take the way it happened in the books as gospel that HAS to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jugdesh258 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 NYT should be bothered enough to have the show reviewed by someone that is familiar with the book. The apathy in the artical is due to reviewers ignornace. It panders to the Idea that D&D have to overly butcher the plot of the novel because some TV viewers might only be vested on week to week basis. Like each episode on its own should have mix of entertainment and socially redeeming value. Writer should at least be able to distinguish what is gratuitous and what is founded in the larger story instead of making assumption. Should be titled review from those that know little to those that care very little. People get more food for thought here for their time spent. The reason for the most valid critique in the stalling escapes the author. Here we know that writers seemed desparate to bridge the series up to the current books no matter what. Having done so we can be optimistic that next season is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 It was no more concocted than the way GRRM got Jeyne Poole in the exact same situation. Really stop. It's blatantly obvious you can't separate the books from the show. It's only contrived if you take the way it happened in the books as gospel that HAS to happen. It's "concocted" because LF plan is stupid. No matter how much people want to try and rationalize the idea of him taking Sansa to Winterfell prior to the battle between the Boltons and Stannis, it remains stupid and something that the Book LF would never do, ever. Nor would the Boltons openly break their alliance with the Lannisters by marrying Ramsay to Sansa, a wanted criminal. This is why it's concocted, because the various motivations of the players do not hold up, they are contrived instead of authentic. Sansa isn't going to get any revenge by becoming a Bolton. LF isn't going to get any power by backstabbing either party. The Boltons aren't getting anything by officially breaking with the Iron Throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night'sQueen Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 To put Sansa there in a leap of logic and badly written arc that has no payoff whatsoever and that we can now say for sure that only worked to the detriment of her character development and to give us the shocking event of her rape is just bad writing. Sorry, but that's just how it is.They barely attempted to make a plot out of this year's storylines. Characters are erratic and make little sense, and their decision-making depends on what the plot needs them to do. If you don't like something that's fine. That doesn't make it "bad writing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 It was no more concocted than the way GRRM got Jeyne Poole in the exact same situation. Really stop. It's blatantly obvious you can't separate the books from the show. It's only contrived if you take the way it happened in the books as gospel that HAS to happen. And your mistake is thinking that Jeyne Poole = Sansa Stark. It is contrived in show history because there's no clear goal as to why would Sansa go with it, why would LF leave his biggest asset there and why would Roose accept so easily to rebel against the Crown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 If you don't like something that's fine. That doesn't make it "bad writing."It does when the characters literally say "You want the bad pussy." Sorry, but if you want to defend that, I'm not sure I can argue with you. We have different visions, clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 It's "concocted" because LF plan is stupid. No matter how much people want to try and rationalize the idea of him taking Sansa to Winterfell prior to the battle between the Boltons and Stannis, it remains stupid and something that the Book LF would never do, ever. Nor would the Boltons openly break their alliance with the Lannisters by marrying Ramsay to Sansa, a wanted criminal. This is why it's concocted, because the various motivations of the players do not hold up, they are contrived instead of authentic. Sansa isn't going to get any revenge by becoming a Bolton. LF isn't going to get any power by backstabbing either party. The Boltons aren't getting anything by officially breaking with the Iron Throne. It's really not. If LF's plan was plant a "Stark" in Winterfell to have an excuse to take the Vale to the North to take Winterfell. That can happen in the books and the show. The Bolton/Lannister alliances is irrelevant. It was done with Tywin who is dead, Cersie in the both the books and the show have done nothing for the Boltons to secure the North, and now the Lannister's power is fading. The Lannister's wanted Arya as well in case you forgot and the Bolton's were passing Jeyne off as Arya. It all makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night'sQueen Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 This thread is about the NYT review. Aren't there 800 or so other threads where people can cry about Sansa getting raped? The only reason I mentioned it was in response to a comment about gratuitous violence, which is related to the NYT review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guess who's back Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 This is literally the exact same criticism many book critics gave AFFC and ADWD. It feels like stalling, bloating, and little real advancement despite a lot happening. Shouldn't be surprising. This. The critic was complaining of plot not advancing. Nothing happened in the last two books either. Only build up. Dany is still in Essos, Lanisters still in Kings Landing, Boltons still at the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ned's Little Girl Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 If you don't like something that's fine. That doesn't make it "bad writing." Actually, it's the bad writing that makes it bad writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night'sQueen Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 It does when the characters literally say "You want the bad pussy." Sorry, but if you want to defend that, I'm not sure I can argue with you. We have different visions, clearly. What? When did I say anything about that line being good writing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLeviathan73 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Watching it for ten hours was better than slogging through the two most disappointing books I ever picked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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