So what is HBO's strategy on the Jon Snow question?

[ShadowKitteh]

Amen.

Plus to answer why lie? Because this is the first opportunity the show has had to have all of its viewers - book readers and pure show watchers - in the dark on the same cliffhanger. Up until this point they couldn't have such a blatant misdirection because the books readers always knew what was coming. But this is a question even readers have been fretting over since the last novel came out, so of course they would take advantage of it, because to do otherwise would spoil both the upcoming book and the show.

And for the sheer comedy and fantastic pay off of HOLY SHIT JON'S ALIVE! No one in their right mind would pass up trolling the entirety of GoT fans.. At least I would hope not.

[dannyk65]

They dump him over the wall where the White Walkers pick him up.

OMG that made me laugh

[R4W13Y]

Great post!! Thanks for compiling all of this :) I did something similar in the other thread that died so I'm glad this one is here.

I agree with all your points. I am inclined to think he is dead dead and not coming back at all in the show based on the interviews. They've never lied in interviews before, so I don't see why they should now. There are a number of ways the show can go on without him, whether they are satisfactory or not.

An ambiguous answer coming from a TV show is almost the same as saying he's not dead. So if they want it to be a shock, they have to lie.

I also think he will come back mid season next season.

However, there is a third alternative, which is that he dies in the books, but much later, and just as they've killed several other characters off early, they decided to go for the Red Wedding factor and kill him now.

I doubt they've done this, I still think it's a stunt, but if he is dead and not resurrected then it's because at the end of the story, Jon is dead.

This is the most likely option for me, if Jon is dead in the show. I think he's going to come back, in some way, in the books, but that doesn't mean he won't die for good at some point later on, and D&D are just moving it up just as they did with Shireen's burning and Dany/St. Tyrion meeting to start paring down the characters and storylines as they reach the home stretch.

I think it is also likely that they won't bother to resolve Jon's birth story. I think it's pretty established that R+L=J but so what? It just makes him the son of a Stark and Targaryen. It seems fitting that he is ice and fire, but Bran and Dany has to fit in somehow. Out of the three of them, two has to be fake, and it could be any one.

I think if he is dead, they can still follow up on the parentage or R+L storyline in the show (but I'm thinking it was an easter egg for book fans if Jon is really dead, nothing more) in other ways rather than having him come back and hear about it.

For example, it could just mean his blood is really powerful, and when he is burned alive something crazy magical happens (a la Dany's dragons) and the explanation is his parentage.

if they came out and said Jon is not dead its no story..now the world wide media are speculating, if you had not heard of GOT or had little interest before after this you will want to know what the fuss is..you are very likely to buy the dvd set for previous series, you are adding to the fan base for next series, you will be funding the majestic scene in episode 2-3 when Ghost howls, the wall collapses and Jon rises from under it with the flaming blade..Mel will have nothing to do, she is just a diversion..the wall will bring him back, its the magic...

telling people Jon is alive makes no sense interms of GRRM's stories, the real curve ball could be the release of next book before much details into the production of next series, imagine the sale that will generate..telling us Jon is dead is gold for them

See, I think the opposite. If they say Jon is absolutely dead (as they have) they've killed the speculation (except for with us book readers). If they are ambiguous as GRRM has been, they increase speculation and increase the amount of people curious to tune in to see if Jon is resurrected or not. If they believe he's really truly dead (and a lot of shownly people thought this at the end of the episode) then they might not want to tune in anymore (which is what a lot of shownly people have said) since all the "good" guys are dying.

[Richard Writhen]

I'm a proponent of the theory that he will both warg into ghost and also somehow be reconstituted by Melisandre...

[Cas Stark]

Yes, but then, when he comes back it's a huge SHOCK, that generates tremendous coverage. Coverage of the show and insider coverage of the PR stunt itself. And everyone tunes right back in, because Jon Snow is alive, he's alive. LOL.

Like I keep saying, I don't believe they would diverge from the books on such a significant point. They said they are diverging in season 6 'a bit'....Jon Snow is one of the most important characters. This would not be a small change but a huge change. And take note, they haven't explained why they changed it, only that dead is dead. And yet, the only person who escapes from Stannis camp is the stupid witch from the god that resurrects people. Coincidental.

[kissdbyfire]

An ambiguous answer coming from a TV show is almost the same as saying he's not dead. So if they want it to be a shock, they have to lie.

I also think he will come back mid season next season.

However, there is a third alternative, which is that he dies in the books, but much later, and just as they've killed several other characters off early, they decided to go for the Red Wedding factor and kill him now.

I doubt they've done this, I still think it's a stunt, but if he is dead and not resurrected then it's because at the end of the story, Jon is dead.

I think that is a real possibility. And it will be another poor decision, imo. But I can see that happening.

[Martoma]

The resurrection has to take place quickly after the death because the NW would burn his body (and I assume no body = no resurrection). Unless someone "steals" Jon's body and hides and conserves it somewhere for some months I am pretty sure he will appear in season 6.

[kissdbyfire]

Sadly Jon is dead and we will never learn anything more about the secret of his parentage. I have a feeling pretty much everyone who seems incredibly important to the story is going to die. The series isn't going to end well. I feel like season 3 foreshadowed this when Ramsay tells Theon "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." Really It should be called Game of Pointless Dead-End Storylines

I can't find the whole interview, just this quote:

"[...]I have a million questions, but the one that I really am most wanting to know is .... will Jon ever find out about his parentage?"

GRRM: "Eventually, yes."

[kissdbyfire]

The resurrection has to take place quickly after the death because the NW would burn his body (and I assume no body = no resurrection). Unless someone "steals" Jon's body and hides and conserves it somewhere for some months I am pretty sure he will appear in season 6.

His body can be taken over by the WWs. Normally it wouldn't work on him (he'd become like CH, still in control and no blue eyes) but because his essence is in Ghost and his body is just a shell at the mo, it will work. :uhoh:

[R4W13Y]

Well it's not just the premiere ratings that matter to HBO.. Those who give up on the show and don't order HBO anymore might start ordering again once they hear Jon indeed is alive again. I mean, it will be big news and hard for anyone to miss if they follow entertainment news at all. So they miss some people watching the premiere over this but win them back for the rest of the season.. Not that bad really.

And also they (D&D) have said that these were scenes they've been waiting to film for ages. This is the first time they literally have everyone guessing and they're loving it. I also like the idea that they've done this out of respect for George and are giving him one more chance to get the book out before the big reveals come. One thing I also thought of was the way George has released the sample chapters, often involving something that the show is doing in a very different way. No sample chapters here though, apparently no need for George to push out a chapter revealing of even hinting Jon's fate.

So they would risk losing viewers and subscribers on the hope that when they do reveal they were lying, they would get those same people back?! Or they could just keep those viewers and subscribers the whole time?

I'm a proponent of the theory that he will both warg into ghost and also somehow be reconstituted by Melisandre...

Yeah, if only they had actually had his last word "Ghost" and had Ghost play a bigger role this season (and other seasons, to be honest) :(

Yes, but then, when he comes back it's a huge SHOCK, that generates tremendous coverage. Coverage of the show and insider coverage of the PR stunt itself. And everyone tunes right back in, because Jon Snow is alive, he's alive. LOL.

Like I keep saying, I don't believe they would diverge from the books on such a significant point. They said they are diverging in season 6 'a bit'....Jon Snow is one of the most important characters. This would not be a small change but a huge change. And take note, they haven't explained why they changed it, only that dead is dead. And yet, the only person who escapes from Stannis camp is the stupid witch from the god that resurrects people. Coincidental.

I just don't see why the interviews are needed for that scenario to happen :dunno:

[Sasha Steelsong]

And for the sheer comedy and fantastic pay off of HOLY SHIT JON'S ALIVE! No one in their right mind would pass up trolling the entirety of GoT fans.. At least I would hope not.

Exactly!! Especially with D&D going on about "breaking the internet" I doubt they would want to spoil their fun with any leaks.

[Martoma]

I can't find the whole interview, just this quote:

"[...]I have a million questions, but the one that I really am most wanting to know is .... will Jon ever find out about his parentage?"

GRRM: "Eventually, yes."

Now we know.

[Faint]

I'm a proponent of the theory that he will both warg into ghost and also somehow be reconstituted by Melisandre...

I figure that is what happens in the book but I allow the possibility that they might simplify it on the show and just have Melisandre resurrect him. I am not sure how convincing they can make a depiction of Jon skin changing into Ghost sans a human body.

What are they going to do? Have a point-of-view camera of Ghost's viewpoint? And how would they get across that it is Jon inside Ghost? The only thing I can think of is interactions with Melisandre but that would be prohibitively expensive, as they would probably have to create computer generated imagery of Ghost's facial reactions.

Also, it must be said, if they were going to go down this route, they have not done a very good job of setting it up. There is nothing equivalent to Varamyr's chapter in A Dance with Dragons in the show.

[Gustavo Fringed Sleeves]

Haven't read the thread, but good luck HBO, because I'd venture to say that no Jon Snow for next season means at least 1 million viewers magically disappearing, just in the US. Some say he was never as popular as Robb among the fandom (never as Tyrion or "Khaleesi" is obvious), but indeed, for a lot of viewers, this was the last straw for major character deaths.

If they killed Jon for good AND George hasn't for now (which seems obvious to me), then D&D have taken a moronic decision.

[calo760]

Because there was so much material from the books that was left out of the show I feel like there was a reason the show introduced Thoros of Myr and the Brotherhood Without Banners, who they could have easily left out of the show. But they wanted to introduce another red priest, one who can resurrect the dead (numerous times). Thoros is even mentioned numerous times in the show, including in season 1, as well as in season 5 when Varys and Tyrion arrive in Volantis (and out of the times mention, twice they mention his flaming sword).. So I think this guy will return soon and will probably resurrect Jon, or he may be with Lady Stoneheart. I also think it is possible that he is actually Azor Ahai and will show up with his fiery sword ,cutting down the Others,

[Gustavo Fringed Sleeves]

Also, it must be said, if they were going to go down this route, they have not done a very good job of setting it up. There is nothing equivalent to Varamyr's chapter in A Dance with Dragons in the show.

They were supposed to have made a casting call for Varamyr. It seems noteworthy now that in the end there was none. Were they going at first with resurrecting Jon, before changing their minds and ditching the Varamyr role altogether as a consequence?

[kissdbyfire]

Now we know.

Well, we know Jon will learn who his parents are in the books. Not a guarantee the show will do the same. :dunno:

[Lord Friendzone]

Now we know.

Yeah, in the books. Jon Snow is dead, but maybe he'll live in different body...hence Kit and his "I'm done with GoT." Many options for series.

[lakin1013]

There is a Blind Gossip site that had this for a clue:

If you were recently disappointed by the finale of a hit television show, you’ll definitely want to hear this! Other hot stars in his same age group have a dozen projects in the pipeline. Yet, one of the hottest young actors in the world has nowhere to go and nothing to do. That’s weird. He has absolutely NOTHING in the pipeline. Even his costars have at least a project or two on the side, but he has nothing. Nothing in pre. Nothing in post. If his tenure on this hit television show was really over, his very competent agents would have been lining up multiple projects for him months ago.

That is, unless our young actor is playing a little game of his own…

Actor: Show:

There are 131 guesses. 126 guesses are for Jon Snow/KH. 5 name other people.

My point is not to encourage everyone to visit blind gossip sites. But, everywhere I have been, it seems like fans DO NOT BELIEVE Jon Snow is dead. Whatever strategy HBO planned, it does not seem to be inspiring belief in the great unwashed. I include Huffington Post articles, Grantland, Vanity Fair, and even Yahoo and now blind gossip. Seems like folks who watch the show simply don't believe Jon is dead!

[R4W13Y]

Haven't read the thread, but good luck HBO, because I'd venture to say that no Jon Snow for next season means at least 1 million viewers magically disappearing, just in the US. Some say he was never as popular as Robb among the fandom (never as Tyrion or "Khaleesi" is obvious), but indeed, for a lot of viewers, this was the last straw for major character deaths.

If they killed Jon for good AND George hasn't for now (which seems obvious to me), then D&D have taken a moronic decision.

I think we can all agree on this :)

Well, we know Jon will learn who his parents are in the books. Not a guarantee the show will do the same. :dunno:

:agree:

There is a Blind Gossip site that had this for a clue:

If you were recently disappointed by the finale of a hit television show, you’ll definitely want to hear this! Other hot stars in his same age group have a dozen projects in the pipeline. Yet, one of the hottest young actors in the world has nowhere to go and nothing to do. That’s weird. He has absolutely NOTHING in the pipeline. Even his costars have at least a project or two on the side, but he has nothing. Nothing in pre. Nothing in post. If his tenure on this hit television show was really over, his very competent agents would have been lining up multiple projects for him months ago.

That is, unless our young actor is playing a little game of his own…

Actor: Show:

There are 131 guesses. 126 guesses are for Jon Snow/KH. 5 name other people.

My point is not to encourage everyone to visit blind gossip sites. But, everywhere I have been, it seems like fans DO NOT BELIEVE Jon Snow is dead. Whatever strategy HBO planned, it does not seem to be inspiring belief in the great unwashed. I include Huffington Post articles, Grantland, Vanity Fair, and even Yahoo and now blind gossip. Seems like folks who watch the show simply don't believe Jon is dead!

But he does have a movie called "The Death and Life of John F. Donovan" in the pipeline though. He's the lead role, and people like Jessica Chastain, Susan Sarandon, and Kathy Bates are in it. Also a movie and a TV movie this year.