Rant & Rave Without Repercussion s 5 continued [book spoilers]

[Le Cygne]

The other big question is what happens in the Vale next, something is about to go down to shake things up, I think. It's time for there to be a wrench in LF's plans, which I don't think he's fully revealed. How they translate that to screen is anyone's guess, but I can't see Bronze Yohn as a patsy working much longer.

[Annara Snow]

Why shoudnt they think of him like that. He ruled Westeros for 20 years under a mad king crushed a rebelions caused by his shitty lord father ensuring loyalty from the west for decades then managed to win twot5k 5k probably being in the worst place at the start.

He didn't win the War of the Five Kings. No one has won it. There are still three kings in the realm. Stannis is still alive and well in the books - or at least certainly was when Tywin was alive - and still intends to take the throne. And now Balon has a more dangerous successor who actually wants the Iron Throne, unlike Balon.

It's not like the War was all about Lannister vs Stark.

[Le Cygne]

The show keeps going there with honor is stupid and gets you killed, that's LF's voice, are they setting something up, or playing it straight, because they think like he does. There's no narrative voice, that's a big problem with the show. So when they keep repeating things like this, it's like that is their own view.

[Bobby b's bobby]

He didn't win the War of the Five Kings. No one has won it. There are still three kings in the realm. Stannis is still alive and well in the books - or at least certainly was when Tywin was alive - and still intends to take the throne. And now Balon has a more dangerous successor who actually wants the Iron Throne, unlike Balon.

It's not like the War was all about Lannister vs Stark.

Tywin started alone against all of Westeros bar the crownlands, Robb and Renly died stannis was stuck on Dragonstone with 1500 and held storms end with maybe a few hundred men, doran stayed out of the war only costing 1 hostage and Balon attacked an enemy for no cost bleeding strength before dying and every body knows the ironborn on their own can't last. If tyrion hadn't killed tywin he'd have cleaned up In a few years. God knows what would've happened with dany,aegon dragons and dorne but he was on the wining side of twot5k.

Now back on topic is edmure and the blackfish back next year? They're going into the riverlands and casting the northern lords a year too late but what's going on with the tullys and freys?

[Ramsay's 20 Good Men]

The show keeps going there with honor is stupid and gets you killed, that's LF's voice, are they setting something up, or playing it straight, because they think like he does. There's no narrative voice, that's a big problem with the show. So when they keep repeating things like this, it's like that is their own view.

It wouldn't surprise me if they truly believed that being nice, thinking of others, having honour etc. gets you killed and should be something that you stay away from in order to be successful. So yea, just like Littlefinger.

[OldGimletEye]

The show keeps going there with honor is stupid and gets you killed, that's LF's voice, are they setting something up, or playing it straight, because they think like he does. There's no narrative voice, that's a big problem with the show. So when they keep repeating things like this, it's like that is their own view.

Now, that would be like them to over simplify things wouldn't it? Perhaps, this explains their fondness for Tywin too. The thing about Tywin though is that some of his methods seem to have created long term problems. Just for instance, the murder of the small folk in the RL seems to have created a populist revolt there. Sure Tywin's methods got Edmure to split his forces in the face of an enemy, but long term were Tywin's tactics sound? Perhaps not.

[TepidHands]

Now back on topic is edmure and the blackfish back next year? They're going into the riverlands and casting the northern lords a year too late but what's going on with the tullys and freys?

I think Edmure's in Scotland, actually.

 

Considering how the show handled Dorne, I hate to think how they're going to re-present the Riverlands. I really don't WANT to see a bunch of chinless Freys flashing boobage; perhaps Gatehouse Ami will wind up being the next Tyene ("It was in the books!") . I'm sure Blackfish will wind up being gay (that actually might be true, from book canon) and "shagging every stableboy from the Twins to Riverrun."  

[Bobby b's bobby]

I think Edmure's in Scotland, actually.
 
Considering how the show handled Dorne, I hate to think how they're going to re-present the Riverlands. I really don't WANT to see a bunch of chinless Freys flashing boobage; perhaps Gatehouse Ami will wind up being the next Tyene ("It was in the books!") . I'm sure Blackfish will wind up being gay (that actually might be true, from book canon) and "shagging every stableboy from the Twins to Riverrun."  

God if they have meryt frey (think that was his name the drunk with the crap life sent to ransom petyr pimple) he'll probably be introduced walkin in on ami 2 sisters a cousin and 3 stable boys and be fine with it.

[TepidHands]

Oh and don't forget, supposedly Black Walder Rivers raped all his sisters and cousins, they could have the Cat throat-slashing scene in the "previously on" and then show that. More sexualized violence! I can see its appeal to the showrunners ... And to think, we ALL thought they had ZERO interest in the Riverlands and that's why they cut it for a couple seasons!

[Le Cygne]

From a really good scriptwriting book:
 

Generally, the main character is energetic and is exposed to sufficient conflict to propel her through the story. The main character differs from secondary characters in a variety of ways. The primary difference is that she undergoes a metamorphosis during the course of the story. On the other hand, the secondary characters not only don't change, they serve as a source of contrast to the main characters. Through this interaction, secondary characters help to move the story along.

That's why Sansa is supposed to be Sansa, not Jeyne Poole. Jeyne was supposed to be the contrast. They are so in over their heads, it's not even funny. They don't have the basics down.

[Le Cygne]

Now, that would be like them to over simplify things wouldn't it? Perhaps, this explains their fondness for Tywin too. The thing about Tywin though is that some of his methods seem to have created long term problems. Just for instance, the murder of the small folk in the RL seems to have created a populist revolt there. Sure Tywin's methods got Edmure to split his forces in the face of an enemy, but long term were Tywin's tactics sound? Perhaps not.

 

True, there's a lot more to it than meets the eye. The simplistic taglines don't quite cut it in any realistic sense, do they. That's where they seem to stop, though. They don't look very far ahead.

[Le Cygne]

I think Edmure's in Scotland, actually.

 

He is, indeed. I think they are filming now, too. And he's got more to do this season, they are onto the second book. Maybe he could fit this in, it's not like they are going to give a Tully much depth or anything, in between the life and times of psychos and orphans.

[LongRider]

I think Edmure's in Scotland, actually.

 

Considering how the show handled Dorne, I hate to think how they're going to re-present the Riverlands. I really don't WANT to see a bunch of chinless Freys flashing boobage; perhaps Gatehouse Ami will wind up being the next Tyene ("It was in the books!") . I'm sure Blackfish will wind up being gay (that actually might be true, from book canon) and "shagging every stableboy from the Twins to Riverrun."  

 

Alot of the RL plot had to do with Bri and Jaimie, now how in the heck are they going to get them there where it makes any sense? 

[kissdbyfire]

Alot of the RL plot had to do with Bri and Jaimie, now how in the heck are they going to get them there where it makes any sense?

It doesn't have to make sense, like, at all. As long as it's shocking, it's all good. :ack:

[LongRider]

It doesn't have to make sense, like, at all. As long as it's shocking, it's all good. :ack:

 

Of course!  What was I thinking?          :lol:

[HexMachina]

Alot of the RL plot had to do with Bri and Jaimie, now how in the heck are they going to get them there where it makes any sense?

As long as it creatively makes sense I suppose.

Though on a serious note, I can see how they get Jaime into the Riverlands (returns to Kl and Cersei sends him away because she is angry about Myrcella's death and Jaime not supporting her through the Walk etc.) but Brienne? No idea at all. I'd guess they are going to leave her in the North, probably meeting up with Sansa and Theon, despite missing the, um...'signal'

[Annara Snow]

Tywin started alone against all of Westeros bar the crownlands, Robb and Renly died stannis was stuck on Dragonstone with 1500 and held storms end with maybe a few hundred men, doran stayed out of the war only costing 1 hostage and Balon attacked an enemy for no cost bleeding strength before dying and every body knows the ironborn on their own can't last. If tyrion hadn't killed tywin he'd have cleaned up In a few years. God knows what would've happened with dany,aegon dragons and dorne but he was on the wining side of twot5k.

Now back on topic is edmure and the blackfish back next year? They're going into the riverlands and casting the northern lords a year too late but what's going on with the tullys and freys?

 

Tywin was never against all of Westeros. Dorne did not participate, the Iron Islands only got involved a bit later and that to make trouble for the North and Robb Stark, not Tywin; Balon even proposed an alliance to Tywin. Stannis and Renly went against each other before they even started fighting the Lannisters, Stannis got rid of Renly (nothing to do with Tywin), and Renly's former army split itself between those who gave their allegiance to Stannis and those under Mace Tyrell that entered into alliance with the Lannisters; that, again, was not due to Tywin at all, as the alliance was negotiated by Littlefinger, sent by Tyrion and Cersei, and the marriage between Margaery and Joffrey was not Tywin's idea, either. All he did for most of the time was terrorize the smallfolk in the Riverlands and lose to Robb Stark, or just sit in Harrenhal and terrorize more smallfolk. His one big win, Blackwater, was thanks to Tyrion and to the alliance with the Tyrells (which, as I pointed out, was not his doing in the first place). The only thing Tywin really accomplished himself was the secret alliance with Roose Bolton and Walder Frey and the planning of the Red Wedding in order to destroy Robb Stark and the Northern cause. But even with that, he got incredibly lucky, as he did with so many things during the Wot5K: the Ironborn attacking the North, Theon Greyjoy taking Winterfell and "killing" Bran and Rickon, Renly being assassinated, Stannis losing at Blackwater, a lot of things had to fall into place for his plan even to be possible. 

 

If Tyrion hadn't killed him, there's absolutely no guarantee that Tywin would continue to get so lucky and not lose. Especially since now he'd also have to contend with Euron, "Aegon" and soon Dany, in addition to Stannis who is far from finished, and Dorne was always going to get on the side of a Targaryen against the Lannisters.

 

I think Edmure's in Scotland, actually.

 

Considering how the show handled Dorne, I hate to think how they're going to re-present the Riverlands. I really don't WANT to see a bunch of chinless Freys flashing boobage; perhaps Gatehouse Ami will wind up being the next Tyene ("It was in the books!") . I'm sure Blackfish will wind up being gay (that actually might be true, from book canon) and "shagging every stableboy from the Twins to Riverrun."  

 

But, but... Blackfish is not stereotypically gay! Therefore he can't be gay! They'd either have to make him love weddings and fashion and/or be afraid of the sight of blood, or he'd be the straightest macho guy ever.

 

Oh and don't forget, supposedly Black Walder Rivers raped all his sisters and cousins, they could have the Cat throat-slashing scene in the "previously on" and then show that. More sexualized violence! I can see its appeal to the showrunners ... And to think, we ALL thought they had ZERO interest in the Riverlands and that's why they cut it for a couple seasons!

 

They never said he was raping them.

[Tijgy]

LOL. It is very surprising how reading thread can resurface my anger towards D&D (I started to become totally indifferent towards them). For example, I totally forgot they were actually casting the Northern Lords now. 

During season 5 I kept waiting for them and they did not appear. And now they are being casted? Even without seeing them, D&D did destroy them already. One of the reasons, especially for the Northern clans, for them to fight against the Boltons was actually "Ned's girl. Now none of them did not reacted against the fact Ramsay married Sansa. However, Ramsay is not so infamous in the show as in the books (f.e no lady Donella Hornwood?)

 

The same happened actually with Meera and Jojen. They also appeared in season 3, while they did actually feature in CoK.  :bang:

[Bobby b's bobby]

 
Tywin was never against all of Westeros. Dorne did not participate, the Iron Islands only got involved a bit later and that to make trouble for the North and Robb Stark, not Tywin; Balon even proposed an alliance to Tywin. Stannis and Renly went against each other before they even started fighting the Lannisters, Stannis got rid of Renly (nothing to do with Tywin), and Renly's former army split itself between those who gave their allegiance to Stannis and those under Mace Tyrell that entered into alliance with the Lannisters; that, again, was not due to Tywin at all, as the alliance was negotiated by Littlefinger, sent by Tyrion and Cersei, and the marriage between Margaery and Joffrey was not Tywin's idea, either. All he did for most of the time was terrorize the smallfolk in the Riverlands and lose to Robb Stark, or just sit in Harrenhal and terrorize more smallfolk. His one big win, Blackwater, was thanks to Tyrion and to the alliance with the Tyrells (which, as I pointed out, was not his doing in the first place). The only thing Tywin really accomplished himself was the secret alliance with Roose Bolton and Walder Frey and the planning of the Red Wedding in order to destroy Robb Stark and the Northern cause. But even with that, he got incredibly lucky, as he did with so many things during the Wot5K: the Ironborn attacking the North, Theon Greyjoy taking Winterfell and "killing" Bran and Rickon, Renly being assassinated, Stannis losing at Blackwater, a lot of things had to fall into place for his plan even to be possible. 
 
If Tyrion hadn't killed him, there's absolutely no guarantee that Tywin would continue to get so lucky and not lose. Especially since now he'd also have to contend with Euron, "Aegon" and soon Dany, in addition to Stannis who is far from finished, and Dorne was always going to get on the side of a Targaryen against the Lannisters.
 

At the beginning of two5k renly and the reach were marching slowly towards kl with stannis being an afterthought since no one knew about the incest. Dorne hated the lannisters and robb was just crowned after scattering 15k and capturing jaime with the riverlands rallying and the vale expected to join. The ironborn then declared independence stannis killed renly and took a chunk of his army to march on kl. Tywin's subordinates lf and tyrion managed to get dorne to sit out and the Tyrells to join then doesn't he get credit for that? He gets the blame for the crap Lannister in charge of the host in the weSt losing so why not credit when they do good. When he was killed Bolton was fixing the north, stannis had no chance and the ironborn were irrelevant. I'm not aruing he didn't roll 3 doubles in a row without going to jail with some bs luck but he still did very good with the hand he was dealt and he would have struggled with dany,aegon and dorne no doubt.

Now I'd say agree to disagree we're ruining the nice rants about d&d.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I don't know about you, but I thought this attempt to talk about Jon Snow's parentage was lazy and disastrous. In the first book George was clever in approach the issue creating curiosity about it, introducing Red Herrings (Wylla, Ashara) and subtly introducingclues about Lyanna, Rhaegar and the tower of Joy. Probably they will reveal it in the next season and I doubt they will do it in a good way.

 

Funny thing is that I'm sure mostly Unsullied already know who we believe his parents to be. The introduction of a mystery is not as needed as they would want. I mean, it doesn't need to be a mystery. They just need to slowly introduce it. And not like that.