Football: The Lame Duck

[polishgenius]

Good grief no. I don't think Giggs has shown anything in his time as assistant, or stand-in, to inspire a belief that he'll be good for it. Fact: the common factor in the turgid reigns of Moyes and Van Gaal has been him.


Mind you, I just don't like him coz he's a snake and being a bit snakey isn't necessarily a bad trait in a manager.

[Spockydog]

Good grief no. I don't think Giggs has shown anything in his time as assistant, or stand-in, to inspire a belief that he'll be good for it. Fact: the common factor in the turgid reigns of Moyes and Van Gaal has been him.

That might be a little unfair. I'm not sure he has much say in terms of tactics (was probably the same under Moyes). If he did, I doubt they'd be playing the way they are.

Would he be a better option than Van Gaal? Well, Louis looked like a broken man today. He lost the players ages ago, and Giggs would probably get more out of them.

 

[polishgenius]

He lost the players ages ago, and Giggs would probably get more out of them.

 

Thing is though; Giggs has been employed as assistant under both managers in huge part with the aim of facilitating communication between the outside man in charge and the culture existing in the club. That means he's either fucking terrible at that aspect of the job, or he's been slithering about again stabbing his partner in the back in the hope of getting the big job.

But yes, it is unfair. I'm not very inclined to be fair to Giggs.

[Swordofmorning]

I think what he says is fair. Media creates the pressure and makes shit

But he would've had an idea for what he was signing up for. 

Aye, the media makes the mess of it, but it is kinda expected at a "big" club like United

[Swordofmorning]

This looks most likely to be our new badge 

http://postimg.org/image/49obqt51r/

I actually liked the eagle badge and also there is no F.C. on this one.

[baxus]

Van Gaal gets paid a fuckton of money to do a job that entails such media scrutiny and pressure, so I have zero sympathy for him. If he didn't want that, he should've gone for a different line of work.

Also, the crap about "do you think about how my kids feel when you write things like that" when his kids are grown ass women with children of their own is beyond hilarious.

[Lord Friendzone]

The pressure is clearly getting to him. Was he sweating the whole time?

 

Yeah. He should expect people to question him. He is a manager of Manchester United Football Club and if you have these kind of results and performances...people will be asking questions. Although, I can understand him a bit, because media can be nasty and pushing things to the extreme.

I expect him to be sacked one way or the other. The question for Man Utd is that Guardiola will probably end up in Manchester City and they need to react to this. Mourinho is the kind of manager that can challange Pep and have this big impact, but it depends if they want trophies and quick success over stability. Mourinho is not the kind of manager for 5 years. He can improve the players, bring the best out of them, implement siege mentality, but after some time people will be bored by this and turn on him. That happened at Chelsea and Real.

Mourinho can end up at Real, because Benitez is far from liked there. Perez already stated that he is willing to bring him to Real and support him.

[Consigliere]

Well our next two games - away to Stoke and home to Chelsea - will go a long way to determining LVG's fate. Lose those two and it would come as no surprise should Van Gaal be sacked on Tuesday. Heck, I think he needs at least four points from those games to have a chance of remaining in charge. I think things are lining up for Mourinho to take over as it seems like LVG has lost the dressing room. City looks to be Pep's most likely destination and I'm not sure of Simeone's situation at Atletico. While Mourinho's track record as manager has been characterised by short term success followed by a sudden implosion, United might be willing to overlook the latter in the hopes that he achieves the former. He also has a very good track record in the transfer market and this is an area where we have fallen woefully short. Considering all the money spent since Fergie retired, we should have a stronger squad than we actually do.

[mormont]

There's a significant distinction between people questioning LvG's tactics and results - which I don't believe he has a problem with, since it's been going on for some time and he's never done more than grumble - and people running stories discussing the merits of various candidates for his job, as if his dismissal could already be taken for granted. It's the latter, not the former, he's angry at. And he has to express that anger publicly, if he's to have any hope of convincing the players that he's still their boss and they need to listen to him instead of anticipating what the next guy might be looking for. (Particularly if the next guy is already in the dressing room.)

Appointing Mourinho would be a bad move. For one thing, it doesn't seem likely to address the main complaints. Mourinho is not an attacking manager by nature: in fact he's not very different from van Gaal, in that they are primarily about structure and will indulge (selected) attacking players only if they first contribute to the team defence. Bear in mind also that Mourinho is the one guy who thought signing Falcao was a good idea even after his stint at Man Utd.

Again like van Gaal, Mourinho is a dominant personality who will ruthlessly exile players to make a point and stick by favourites out of pure stubbornness. But unlike van Gaal, Mourinho has shown that he'll make everything about him: not the players and not the club. He does not stick by the party line. That's a terrible fit for Man Utd, who pride themselves on having a club ethos.

I also can't see Mourinho agreeing to have Giggs sitting on his shoulder as the Chosen One, grooming him as his successor.

The only argument I can see for appointing Mourinho is a dearth of other candidates with as good a CV in terms of trophies won. And if the suspicion is that Mourinho's a busted flush - and for me, it is - then his past performance isn't a great recommendation.

[Lord Friendzone]

Well our next two games - away to Stoke and home to Chelsea - will go a long way to determining LVG's fate. Lose those two and it would come as no surprise should Van Gaal be sacked on Tuesday. Heck, I think he needs at least four points from those games to have a chance of remaining in charge. I think things are lining up for Mourinho to take over as it seems like LVG has lost the dressing room. City looks to be Pep's most likely destination and I'm not sure of Simeone's situation at Atletico. While Mourinho's track record as manager has been characterised by short term success followed by a sudden implosion, United might be willing to overlook the latter in the hopes that he achieves the former. He also has a very good track record in the transfer market and this is an area where we have fallen woefully short. Considering all the money spent since Fergie retired, we should have a stronger squad than we actually do.

Stoke will be more difficult game. Britannia stadium is a tough place to go. You will neat Chelsea at home. They beat Sunderland, but they are still very vunerable at the back and lacking cutting edge upfront in key moments. Far from improving. If it wasn't for quick goals at the beginning of the game, it would have been like with Bournemouth.

He sold De Bruyne and look at him. Lukaku and others. He can buy and identify good players, but he is also prone to mistakes on transfer market. He is kind of personality that will blame everyone and bring toxic atmosphere. It happened at Real, Chelsea.

[baxus]

Bear in mind also that Mourinho is the one guy who thought signing Falcao was a good idea even after his stint at Man Utd.

It seemed to me that Falcao was a forced move on Mourinho's part rather than a first pick. He wasn't given money to sign another striker and while Costa did score 20 league goals last season, his backup was Remy who, despite his qualities, is not really the player to build your title ambitions on. Falcao was a cheap alternative and a player who's played at a very high level in the past and would be a great asset if he could regain that form. He was a risk that Mourinho was kind of forced to take and it didn't pay out.

[mormont]

The problem with that is that it's the exact same story that led to his move to Man Utd - which was a failure.

[Consigliere]

He sold De Bruyne and look at him. Lukaku and others. He can buy and identify good players, but he is also prone to mistakes on transfer market. He is kind of personality that will blame everyone and bring toxic atmosphere. It happened at Real, Chelsea.

The bolded can be levelled at just about every manager but his overall record in the transfer market has been really good. I agree on the 'toxic atmosphere' bit as well as what Mormont mentioned upthread: the only reason I think that Mourinho could be our next manager is due to a dearth of other viable candidates as well as the club may not be willing to wait until the end of the season if there isn't a turnaround, and soon.

[polishgenius]

I loathe loathe loathe the idea of him at the club. And I know more than one fan who jumped on LVG very very quickly for boring and defensive football and those same people are now calling for Jose. I don't understand!

[Consigliere]

I agree with what you are saying there Polish. I don't want him at the club either. After our defeat to Norwich, fans on social media went nuts calling for LVG to be sacked, criticising his style of football and saying how awesome Mourinho is and we should hire him immediately. Do these people honestly believe that the football will be any more attactive under Mourinho? My concern is if the downturn continues then I don't see LVG seeing out the season and if he is sacked before the end of the season then Mourinho is the only viable candidate who is available - at least I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

[polishgenius]

 at least I can't think of any others off the top of my head.

I'm gonna go back to my old standby- get Bielsa in there, at least till the end of the season.

If you're gonna get a self-destructive madman, it might as well be an entertaining one.

[baxus]

The problem with that is that it's the exact same story that led to his move to Man Utd - which was a failure.

Hey, I'm not saying that Falcao did well in either Man Utd or Chelsea, just that Mourinho didn't really have that many options.

He sold De Bruyne and look at him. Lukaku and others. He can buy and identify good players, but he is also prone to mistakes on transfer market. 

He did manage to sell David Luiz for 50 million, so he can't be all that bad when it comes to transfer decisions.

[Swordofmorning]

Yeah. He should expect people to question him. He is a manager of Manchester United Football Club and if you have these kind of results and performances...people will be asking questions. Although, I can understand him a bit, because media can be nasty and pushing things to the extreme.

I expect him to be sacked one way or the other. The question for Man Utd is that Guardiola will probably end up in Manchester City and they need to react to this. Mourinho is the kind of manager that can challange Pep and have this big impact, but it depends if they want trophies and quick success over stability. Mourinho is not the kind of manager for 5 years. He can improve the players, bring the best out of them, implement siege mentality, but after some time people will be bored by this and turn on him. That happened at Chelsea and Real.

Mourinho can end up at Real, because Benitez is far from liked there. Perez already stated that he is willing to bring him to Real and support him.

Isn't that the same thing he is trying at United, push things to the extreme to get things under control.

No, I really don't want Mourinho at Real. He left in a bad way in his 3rd season and by that time, the oppositions were so used to our counter attracting style, that they started giving us the ball and we didn't know what to do with it. 

If Benitez is sacked and he will be, I want Zidane to be given a chance.

[mormont]

Hey, I'm not saying that Falcao did well in either Man Utd or Chelsea, just that Mourinho didn't really have that many options.

Nonsense. He had as many options as any manager in the game and more than most. Starting with not doing exactly the same thing that Man Utd did already, for exactly the same reasons, and expecting to get a different result.

Falcao wasn't his first choice, but Mourinho agreed to the signing because he thought he could make it work where van Gaal failed. He was wrong. It was an error of judgement and a foreseeable failure.

[Lord Friendzone]

Isn't that the same thing he is trying at United, push things to the extreme to get things under control.

No, I really don't want Mourinho at Real. He left in a bad way in his 3rd season and by that time, the oppositions were so used to our counter attracting style, that they started giving us the ball and we didn't know what to do with it. 

If Benitez is sacked and he will be, I want Zidane to be given a chance.

It's partially his fault in a way, but media and some journalists in particular (if I can call them that) can be nasty. Media have have powers over them. They can say anything without any consequences. More sh*tty and more controversial. The better. The Sun, Daily Mail and others. 

Zidane can be Real's Guardiola or Luis Enrique or Perez will go for known quality. But I guess Mou will want to stay in England and wait for Man Utd job rather than Real right now. But it's a possibility for him.

He did manage to sell David Luiz for 50 million, so he can't be all that bad when it comes to transfer decisions.

Luiz is a good defender with right partaner around him, but yeah nowhere near 50m. But it was in euros not pounds...as media in England presented it. Still impressive. So yeah high and lows, but managers are not the only people involved in transfer, aren't they? Chelsea Emenalo, Granovskaia have the key say on transfer...just like in Man Utd Woodward and others. Mourinho is good at one thing. He can persuade any player basically and even the ones that hated or strongly disliked him before...Eto'o or Fabregas known cases.