Small Questions v. 10104

[The Fattest Leech]

Fattest Leach, here's why...

I can't say that I agree that just because the woods witch looks at Arya after that line. Sorry and I honestly have respect for the thoughts and theories out there- except for time traveling baby. I think her next lines about death have to do with Arya and she is smelling/seeing the death inside Arya (something so unceremoniously given to Mel on the show). I will try to organize my thoughts right below.

"I dreamt a wolf howling in the rain, but no one heard his grief," the dwarf woman was saying. <Grey Wind being slain at Red Wedding< "I dreamt such a clangor I thought my head might burst, drums and horns and pipes and screams, but the saddest sound was the little bells.<The Red Wedding and Cat slaying Jinglebell and the music playing so loudly no one outside could hear in< I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs.<Sansa with hairnet< And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow."<Sansa with either Petyr or Sweetrobin or Harry the Heir. Somewhat foreshadowed when Sansa was building Winterfell (her home) inside another castle and it just doesn't work<...>Now the woods witch goes in to her Arya visions as she makes a clear, physical change in posture and storytelling>> She turned her head sharply and smiled through the gloom, right at Arya. "You cannot hide from me, child. Come closer, now."

Cold fingers walked down Arya's neck. Fear cuts deeper than swords, she reminded herself. She stood and approached the fire warily, light on the balls of her feet, poised to flee.

The dwarf woman studied her with dim red eyes. "I see you," she whispered. "I see you, wolf child. Blood child. I thought it was the lord who smelled of death . . . " She began to sob, her little body shaking. "You are cruel to come to my hill, cruel. I gorged on grief at Summerhall, I need none of yours. Begone from here, dark heart. Begone!"

Forgot to mention that the Woods Witch and her reaction to Arya probably has to do with her Faceless Man training, or, as the kindly old mad often sees, Arya will never let go of Arya and Arya will end up killing the people on her list for personal (revenge) reasons instead of the way the life-death order "should" be done.

 

I always use my phone. I can't see my signature, so I forget it's there. 

Yeah, I hear you on the phone-no-sig thing. I am usually on my phone reading or replying so I miss out on the signatures and links myself. But I am at my computer again and can now see your well thought out and planned signature. I like it

[The Fattest Leech]

Better question is will the Faceless Men send the Waif over to Westeros using Arya's face? She has learned the Common Tongue from Arya and they have been playing the lying game for awhile now.  She knows a great deal about being Arya. Another "fake" Arya Stark could cause all kinds of problems.

Oh damn! Think of the political carnage that could happen

The only thing I wonder about this is can a face be used from someone (the body?) that is still alive? Meaning, can't only dead faces be used. If so, Arya would have to be dead. DUN DUN DUUUNNNN!

[RumHam]

Better question is will the Faceless Men send the Waif over to Westeros using Arya's face? She has learned the Common Tongue from Arya and they have been playing the lying game for awhile now.  She knows a great deal about being Arya. Another "fake" Arya Stark could cause all kinds of problems.

That's great. Now you've got me wondering if this is one of the reasons for the unusual POV names in the last two books. Like we get used to reading Arya chapters called The Blind Girl, The Ugly Little Girl, Mercy, etc. and then we get a chapter called Arya in which she returns to Westeros, and it's not immediately apparent to the reader that the real Arya has been killed and this is a Waif-as-Arya POV chapter.

Is anybody else experiencing problems loading wiki-pages completely? 9 out of 10 times, it doesn't load properly for me.

No problems here using Google Chrome. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

That's great. Now you've got me wondering if this is one of the reasons for the unusual POV names in the last two books. Like we get used to reading Arya chapters called The Blind Girl, The Ugly Little Girl, Mercy, etc. and then we get a chapter called Arya in which she returns to Westeros, and it's not immediately apparent to the reader that the real Arya has been killed and this is a Waif-as-Arya POV chapter.

No problems here using Google Chrome. 

I know, huh? That was a pretty cool idea I haven't seen before. 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

No problems here using Google Chrome. 

That's really weird.. I use Google Chrome as well, and for me, it refuses to load the page completely.. At times, everything remains completely white...  

Thanks for checking!  

[The Fattest Leech]

That's really weird.. I use Google Chrome as well, and for me, it refuses to load the page completely.. At times, everything remains completely white...  

Thanks for checking!  

When you mention those details I see what you are saying. I use Firefox on a mac and several times a day, either by typing in westeros.org into the bar or by email link, I get a a blank white page or a white page with the error code on it. Sometimes it takes several minutes to "fix" and it does happen quite often. It has even eaten my highly insightful responses in doing so because it sometimes goes to white after I hit the button to post a reply.

[caprico4]

So a small question, do the Martells ever think/talk on page about Rhaegar? I don't remember reading that. 

I know they talk/think about Ellia and her children and their brutal murder alot. That's the entire premise of their plot. So it's a little weird that they never talk/think about the husband who spurned their beloved princess Ellia and ran away with Lyanna Stark from the North.

Sorry if this has been covered before, I couldn't find it. Also, sorry if I misremember and they actually did discuss Rhaegar.

[anonnyscouse]

Oh damn! Think of the political carnage that could happen

The only thing I wonder about this is can a face be used from someone (the body?) that is still alive? Meaning, can't only dead faces be used. If so, Arya would have to be dead. DUN DUN DUUUNNNN!

The description of face changing suggests the original face is removed before the new face is worn, so while Arya is wearing someone else's face, someone else can wear Arya's face.

[Ser Few of the Fingers]

What was Dragonstone called before the Valyrian colonisation? There's Dragonglass there, but there is no indication the westerosi used that word to describe that kind of stone (they did not have dragons).

[Lord Wraith]

What was Dragonstone called before the Valyrian colonisation? There's Dragonglass there, but there is no indication the westerosi used that word to describe that kind of stone (they did not have dragons).

It was just a big volcanic rock before the Valyrians turned it into a fortress. Not sure it had a name before or one that we know of.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

When you mention those details I see what you are saying. I use Firefox on a mac and several times a day, either by typing in westeros.org into the bar or by email link, I get a a blank white page or a white page with the error code on it. Sometimes it takes several minutes to "fix" and it does happen quite often. It has even eaten my highly insightful responses in doing so because it sometimes goes to white after I hit the button to post a reply.

Ah, no I was talking about the wiki..

Either the page loads without the menu bar on top and on the left (leaving me unable to search on the site, for example), or it loads without displaying a single thing but a white bar where an advertisement banner usually is (though the banner itself isn't visible), leaving the remainer of the page white.

The issue you mention, I've seen that one before as well (today, even), but I think that has more to do with either traffic or updates..

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

So a small question, do the Martells ever think/talk on page about Rhaegar? I don't remember reading that. 

I know they talk/think about Ellia and her children and their brutal murder alot. That's the entire premise of their plot. So it's a little weird that they never talk/think about the husband who spurned their beloved princess Ellia and ran away with Lyanna Stark from the North.

Sorry if this has been covered before, I couldn't find it. Also, sorry if I misremember and they actually did discuss Rhaegar.

Not yet, though in Winds, that might happen, with Jon Connington's arrival in Westeros and all that. 

Oberyn mentions Rhaegar only once, and that is when recalling what his mother had told him on her deathbed, how Tywin had responded to the suggestion of marrying Cersei to Oberyn. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

The description of face changing suggests the original face is removed before the new face is worn, so while Arya is wearing someone else's face, someone else can wear Arya's face.

I disagree.  Arya's face is not removed when she gets her first fake face, her face is cut so that blood can seep into the skin placed over the top.

[The Fattest Leech]

I disagree.  Arya's face is not removed when she gets her first fake face, her face is cut so that blood can seep into the skin placed over the top.

This question got me thinking about the process again so I looked it up. In Dance in the Ugly Little Girl chapter when Arya gets her face for the first time this is said "Then came a tug and a soft rustling as the new face was pulled down over the old. " Cutting the face does moisten the leathery face and provides a blood sacrifice. Win-Win!

I first really wondered about this process in detail after a re-read of the book a while back but then not again until the TV show messed up the scene (Arya pulling faces off like tissues out of a box then the Waif/Jaqen having Arya's living face) but I never really followed up the "research" until now. This was a good reminder for me.

[Blackfyre Bastard]

I disagree.  Arya's face is not removed when she gets her first fake face, her face is cut so that blood can seep into the skin placed over the top.

They would have to remove Arya's face so the Waif can wear it.

[SonofMag]

What's the deal with Daenerys at the end of ADwD when she's on foot in the dothraki sea? She is bleeding heavily - 'moonblood' - but can't remember: 

a) When she ever bled so much in the past

b) When her last period was.

Does this imply her infertility had stopped her menstrual cycle? That her fertility had returned? That she was miscarrying Daario's baby (either because of the infertility described in the prophecy, or to indicate a return to fecundity)?

[The Fattest Leech]

What's the deal with Daenerys at the end of ADwD when she's on foot in the dothraki sea? She is bleeding heavily - 'moonblood' - but can't remember: 

a) When she ever bled so much in the past

When her last period was.

Does this imply her infertility had stopped her menstrual cycle? That her fertility had returned? That she was miscarrying Daario's baby (either because of the infertility described in the prophecy, or to indicate a return to fecundity)?

There are other, long threads that talk about this same subject. I always took it as she was getting her moonblood/fertility back as an opposite of what Mirri Maz Duur told her would "never" happen again.

Then I thought that she was getting the blood and poop-n-squirts from eating the unripe green berries by the handful.

Then I thought that she really could get the Bloody Flux/Pale Mare (she did ride out amongst the sick)  because her symptoms, including the bloody parts, are described by others witnessing the sickness pass through.

Then I went back to the in-your-face-MMD prophecy, that she was just now becoming fertile again.

Alas, I believe GRRM stated that she did indeed have a miscarriage from a Dario baby. I have no idea how to search through the SSM listings, but I am sure someone here more nimble than I can find it. I will search again. And there is this quote by Reznak that could possibly be a clue as this is not long at all before she miscarries: "Magnificence, every day you grow more beautiful. I think the prospect of your wedding has given you a glow."

Bonus Note: As long as she and Jon do not get together in any sort of kissy-kissy-baby-making way, I'll be happy with whatever it was.

[Lost Melnibonean]

The description of face changing suggests the original face is removed before the new face is worn, so while Arya is wearing someone else's face, someone else can wear Arya's face.

That's one way. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

I don't think they've been stringing Arya along this whole time with the goal of stealing her identity. But we know she's not really following their rules (keeping Needle, killing people for personal reasons.) So it could be that they're training her in good faith, but will eventually be fed up with her actions and decide she's not going to become one of them.

I'm guessing that if the Faceless Men take you in and train you and teach you their secrets and then you decide not to join or are kicked out, they'd kill you. It's hard to imagine they'd willingly let Arya leave the organization knowing what she does. If Arya's fallout out with the Faceless Men should happen to coincide with them getting a Job in Westeros where having a killer as "Arya Stark" would be beneficial, then I could see them using her face and identity. 

Of course since Arya is supposed to be either dead or a girl with a very different (and frostbitten) face, it is hard to imagine how it would help a Faceless Man pose as Arya. So maybe they'd use her face and mannerisms but just pose as a generic Westerosi girl. 

 

Its all certainly possible, but I just can't see Arya being killed in Bravos.  For 1 reason she is the only POV so she would have to be killed in her own POV, the only other such instance being Catlyn who was later revived.  2nd, it would simply be a very unsatisfying end imo.  How can we have Arya being trained as a magical assassin and not kill anyone important?

[RumHam]

Its all certainly possible, but I just can't see Arya being killed in Bravos.  For 1 reason she is the only POV so she would have to be killed in her own POV, the only other such instance being Catlyn who was later revived.  2nd, it would simply be a very unsatisfying end imo.  How can we have Arya being trained as a magical assassin and not kill anyone important?

Yeah, I know what you mean. Though I'm fairly sure we'll see more first person POV deaths as the series wraps up.