Small Questions v. 10104

[Ser Leftwich]

Is there a passage in the World book about both sides of the Robellion contacting Tywin, but Tywin not answering either side?

[The Fattest Leech]

This isn't a small question... but kind of a stoopid one, but one I have to ask because I have been seeing it a lot lately.

Can just anyone ride a dragon if they catch one?

I am reading through a variety of threads on a few different topics and I keep seeing it suggested that this-guy or that-dude or this-chic will ride a dragon just because they captured it, or captured Daenerys somehow. So if Dany is forced to marry a new Khal or Euron, then the husband does not automatically get the dragon to use for himself, etc, etc.

I was always under the impression that you needed a few things to ride (as in control and "own") a dragon. You have to have Valeryian blood and the dragon has to find a bond with you first before it allows you to ride it. Now, once a dragon rider dies, the dragon may chose to bond with another as some dragons (forgot which) have had a few riders... and the old dragons can be 200 or so years old.

And I am not sure sure the dragon horn works, or works for very long. It could be just a temporary spell and if that spell wears off mid-ride then you become dragon snax.

Thank you for your time and I hope your eyes didn't get damaged as they rolled from your head to the floor

[aryagonnakill#2]

This isn't a small question... but kind of a stoopid one, but one I have to ask because I have been seeing it a lot lately.

Can just anyone ride a dragon if they catch one?

I am reading through a variety of threads on a few different topics and I keep seeing it suggested that this-guy or that-dude or this-chic will ride a dragon just because they captured it, or captured Daenerys somehow. So if Dany is forced to marry a new Khal or Euron, then the husband does not automatically get the dragon to use for himself, etc, etc.

I was always under the impression that you needed a few things to ride (as in control and "own") a dragon. You have to have Valeryian blood and the dragon has to find a bond with you first before it allows you to ride it. Now, once a dragon rider dies, the dragon may chose to bond with another as some dragons (forgot which) have had a few riders... and the old dragons can be 200 or so years old.

And I am not sure sure the dragon horn works, or works for very long. It could be just a temporary spell and if that spell wears off mid-ride then you become dragon snax.

Thank you for your time and I hope your eyes didn't get damaged as they rolled from your head to the floor

This is not a question that we can fully answer as a fact, that's the reason why your seeing so many different theories on it.  It is often said that only those with Valyrian blood have ever managed to tame a dragon, but we really do not know for sure if that is a fact.  There is some debate about Nettles, a young girl with dark skin who rode a dragon during the Dance of Dragons, whether or not she has Targ blood.  Some will say you definitely need Valyrian blood because the ancient valyrians performed blood magic and are actually part dragon themselves, other like me do not believe they are part dragon, but I myself don't really have a strong opinion on whether or not it is needed to ride.

The dragon horn also raises a number of other questions.  Do you still need Valyrian blood?   Can it steal a dragon that has already bound with a rider?  You asked another, is it permanent?  We really don't know the answers, all we can do is speculate.

[The Fattest Leech]

Is there a passage in the World book about both sides of the Robellion contacting Tywin, but Tywin not answering either side?

I did a quick search for Robert Rebellion Tywin and found only this https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=Robert+Rebellion+Tywin&scope[]=twoiaf

The World of Ice and Fire - The Westerlands: House Lannister Under the Dragons

Bereft of the counsel of the man he had relied upon so long, surrounded by lickspittles and schemers, King Aerys II was soon swallowed up entirely by his madness as the realm fell to pieces around him.

The events of Robert's Rebellion are revealed elsewhere and need no retelling save to note that Lord Tywin led a great Lannister host out of the west to capture King's Landing and the Red Keep for Robert Baratheon. Nigh unto three hundred years of Targaryen rule were brought to an end by the swords of Lord Tywin and his westermen. The following year, King Robert I Baratheon took Lord Tywin's daughter, the Lady Cersei, to wife, joining two of the greatest and noblest houses in all Westeros.

 

Not much was said if you just search for Robert Rebellion https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=Robert+Rebellion+&scope[]=twoiaf

There is a funny passage that explains the Greyjoy partin the rebellion. Just a funny little re-read

 

I looked for any other clues but could not find to answer your original question. I did find 63 results about Tywin if you want a looksy. https://asearchoficeandfire.com/?q=Tywin+&scope[]=twoiaf

 

[The Fattest Leech]

This is not a question that we can fully answer as a fact, that's the reason why your seeing so many different theories on it.  It is often said that only those with Valyrian blood have ever managed to tame a dragon, but we really do not know for sure if that is a fact.  There is some debate about Nettles, a young girl with dark skin who rode a dragon during the Dance of Dragons, whether or not she has Targ blood.  Some will say you definitely need Valyrian blood because the ancient valyrians performed blood magic and are actually part dragon themselves, other like me do not believe they are part dragon, but I myself don't really have a strong opinion on whether or not it is needed to ride.

The dragon horn also raises a number of other questions.  Do you still need Valyrian blood?   Can it steal a dragon that has already bound with a rider?  You asked another, is it permanent?  We really don't know the answers, all we can do is speculate.

Thanks for the response. One follow up: But is is known that a dragon has to bond with the rider first, if at all, before it allows one to ride upon its back? So, no bond, no ride?

Shit. That was two follow ups. Sorry

[RumHam]

Thanks for the response. One follow up: But is is known that a dragon has to bond with the rider first, if at all, before it allows one to ride upon its back? So, no bond, no ride?

Shit. That was two follow ups. Sorry

It seems like it's the ride that forms the bond, if you can get a ride without being eaten. (see Aemond and Vhagar in The Princess and The Queen.) Supposedly being a Targaryen helps a lot with the not being eaten first part. 

And I am not sure sure the dragon horn works, or works for very long. It could be just a temporary spell and if that spell wears off mid-ride then you become dragon snax.

We don't know much about the horn, but I think the horn and others like it were the instruments used to forge these familial bonds to dragons so many years ago in Valyria. Something like a Targaryen blows the horn in the presence of some dragons. That Targaryen dies, but from now on the dragons that heard the sound (and their descendants) are bound to the dead Targaryen's bloodlines. That would explain why you need the blood of a dragon-riding family in your veins to ride a dragon. And might explain why Euron sent his brother to blow the horn.

[The Fattest Leech]

It seems like it's the ride that forms the bond, if you can get a ride without being eaten. (see Aemond and Vhagar in The Princess and The Queen.) Supposedly being a Targaryen helps a lot with the not being eaten first part. 

We don't know much about the horn, but I think the horn and others like it were the instruments used to forge these familial bonds to dragons so many years ago in Valyria. Something like a Targaryen blows the horn in the presence of some dragons. That Targaryen dies, but from now on the dragons that heard the sound (and their descendants) are bound to the dead Targaryen's bloodlines. That would explain why you need the blood of a dragon-riding family in your veins to ride a dragon. And might explain why Euron sent his brother to blow the horn.

That's rather interesting. Never heard this one before. Thanks!

[The_Watcher_On_The_Walls]

How will this fandom react when GRRM finally announces the release date of TWoW?

Proabably with "meh" because we'll have two-thirds of the book via sample chapters by then.

 

Either that or with "when is a Dream of Spring coming out"?

[Lost Melnibonean]

From the introduction to The Sworn Sword...

The lords freeholder of Valyria ruled the greater part of the known world; they were sorcerers, great in lore, and alone of all the races of man they had learned to breed dragons and bend them to their will.

 

 

[Ser Creighton]

It seems like it's the ride that forms the bond, if you can get a ride without being eaten. (see Aemond and Vhagar in The Princess and The Queen.) Supposedly being a Targaryen helps a lot with the not being eaten first part. 

We don't know much about the horn, but I think the horn and others like it were the instruments used to forge these familial bonds to dragons so many years ago in Valyria. Something like a Targaryen blows the horn in the presence of some dragons. That Targaryen dies, but from now on the dragons that heard the sound (and their descendants) are bound to the dead Targaryen's bloodlines. That would explain why you need the blood of a dragon-riding family in your veins to ride a dragon. And might explain why Euron sent his brother to blow the horn.

Come on the Horn is easy. The last giant magic horn you saw, never got used to take down the wall (Ice) and was tossed in a fire. Now you have another giant magic horn that is suppose to take the dragons (Fire).

The horn is a tell and a primary Euron clue.

1. Urrathon the Night Walker, and his Glass Candles, some guy who lives on warlock street in Qarth.

2 Urrathon is not an Essosi name it is a Iron Born name. Urrathon the Goodbrother. His sigil? A large black and gold banded horn. He was a former King of the Iron Islands. Rather similar to Euron Greyjoy if you read his story.

3. Later on Harlaw will be given a book, Marwyn's Book of lost books. In it Marwyn claims to have found 3 lost pages of the Book Signs and Portents. This books was written by Daenys Targaryen, the woman who predicted the Doom of Valyria.

4. After the battle of the shield Islands Harlaw will be scene speaking to a guy named Goodbrother.

5 Harlaw will then advise Asha to flee and tell her she should read History of the Iron Born, which is a book about the only time a Kings moot vote was over turned. The name of the King over turned was Urrathon the Goodbrother aka Urrathon the Bad Brother.

Given the use of a FM to kill Balon the same presumed FM is at Old Town with a master Key and looking right at a Glass Candle. Chances are Euron is probably after the Glass candles and those 3 pages. The horn is irrelevant, probably just another lie, and it was Harlaw that was calling Euron on his BS about Valyria.

Martin connected Euron, and both Urrathons, to the Warlocks, Glass Candles, 3 Pages of Prophecy and a King of the Iron Islands who will be deposed by a family member because he was a piece of crap.

The clues are not that hard to follow, the horn was just one of them. Besides even if it is legit, Moqorro knows what it is, and what is says and I doubt he gives a rats ass about Vic, considering he sees a Kraken as a threat to Deanerys and Daenerys is basically his god and Vic is a Craken, serving a Kraken.

Targs been riding Dragons for a long time, we have never seen them use a horn. Not to mention did Dany actually get her Dragons the standard way? Are they normal? As the magic grows so do they, and they are growing quickly. Euron wants a bride, the Warlocks want her dead, and the Undying wanted her soul. What ever Euron has said about the Warlocks is probably BS. He is either being played by them, Working with them, or Working for them. "Shakes magic eight ball" All signs and Portents point to Ser Creighton knowing exactly what up with Euron and the Horn.

Vic with a super powerful Dragon controlling horn. Come on the guy is refereed to by Martin as an idiot, hates monkeys and is about to land in the place where the King Daddy of all the evil monkeys exist. Tyrion the demon Monkey, and a Red Priests who is using him. You remember what the last red priest did to a giant black magic horn with gold bands? Symbolism and Parallels baby.

 

 

[Drogonthedread]

It seems like it's the ride that forms the bond, if you can get a ride without being eaten. (see Aemond and Vhagar in The Princess and The Queen.) Supposedly being a Targaryen helps a lot with the not being eaten first part. 

We don't know much about the horn, but I think the horn and others like it were the instruments used to forge these familial bonds to dragons so many years ago in Valyria. Something like a Targaryen blows the horn in the presence of some dragons. That Targaryen dies, but from now on the dragons that heard the sound (and their descendants) are bound to the dead Targaryen's bloodlines. That would explain why you need the blood of a dragon-riding family in your veins to ride a dragon. And might explain why Euron sent his brother to blow the horn.

i don't think if say the blood of the dragon blows the horn ...then that person will not die......GRRm and Ran has gone into lengths about differentiating targ and a dragon ....ran went on to say even if you are a targ you must have the right drop of blood to ride a dragon ...iam fairly certain that horn is intended for dany and moqorra will see to it 

[RumHam]

Targs been riding Dragons for a long time, we have never seen them use a horn. Not to mention did Dany actually get her Dragons the standard way? Are they normal? As the magic grows so do they, and they are growing quickly. 

Well...The idea is the horn only had to be used once. Or maybe it was used again every few centuries in Valyria to refresh the bond. But I'm not suggesting that Aenar took a horn with him when he fled to Dragonstone. The Targaryens have been making use of the bond formed by a horn since at least twelve years before the Doom. I don't think they've used a horn in centuries. For what it's worth there is this:

The dragonlords of old Valyria had controlled their mounts with binding spells and sorcerous horns. Daenerys made do with a word and a whip.

As for Daenerys's dragons I think there clearly was something special about their birth. But I also think they were likely Targaryen eggs (three of the seven mentioned in the worldbook that Aerys had.) So the bond would still be in effect. 

 

Has anyone been keeping track of Martin's Not a Blog comments that reveal new information? They don't seem to make it into the SSM archive. I think that's how we learned Balerion died of old age. I also seem to remember he commented recently on Ice being used in battle, but google is no help finding it. Anyone have that link?

[Ser Creighton]

 

Well...The idea is the horn only had to be used once. Or maybe it was used again every few centuries in Valyria to refresh the bond. But I'm not suggesting that Aenar took a horn with him when he fled to Dragonstone. The Targaryens have been making use of the bond formed by a horn since at least twelve years before the Doom. I don't think they've used a horn in centuries. For what it's worth there is this:

As for Daenerys's dragons I think there clearly was something special about their birth. But I also think they were likely Targaryen eggs (three of the seven mentioned in the worldbook that Aerys had.) So the bond would still be in effect. 

 

Has anyone been keeping track of Martin's Not a Blog comments that reveal new information? They don't seem to make it into the SSM archive. I think that's how we learned Balerion died of old age. I also seem to remember he commented recently on Ice being used in battle, but google is no help finding it. Anyone have that link?

Still have yet to see a horn work, in the case of Dany's eggs Martin has hinted they may have taken in the souls of Viserys, Rhaego and Drogo. Death for life. Also similar to Lightbringer in that manner and also applied that symbolism to the dragons as well. He spoke about it at at a symposium about the World Book and was actually asked about it.

As for Ice and Not a Blog, I am not sure what you are looking for. I found this.

"Asked if Ned ever used Ice in battle. George points out it was a greatsword, very large and cumbersome, a ceremonial sword for beheading people more than a fighting sword, so he suggests that it was "probably too heavy and clumsy" to use unless you're the Mountain."

It was on Reddit but had a link to SSM Here are both. Not sure if that helps, but don't know of Not A blogs new info update section ar at least I never paid enough attention to notice it if I was on it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/3bmyg2/spoilers_all_grrm_ned_never_used_ice_in_battle/

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Month/2015/06/

In a series called Ice and Fire, googling Ice can be hazardous to your search.

[RumHam]

Still have yet to see a horn work, in the case of Dany's eggs Martin has hinted they may have taken in the souls of Viserys, Rhaego and Drogo. Death for life. Also similar to Lightbringer in that manner and also applied that symbolism to the dragons as well. He spoke about it at at a symposium about the World Book and was actually asked about it.

As I said I believe a Targaryen would have had  to sacrifice themselves by blowing the horn so their family could be bound to dragons for generations to come. So I think that fits the idea of "no magic without sacrifice"  I do believe that Daenerys's dragons are "Lightbringer."  

Either way, I'd be willing to bet we will see a horn work in Winds. Isn't the cover a picture of a horn? 

As for Ice and Not a Blog, I am not sure what you are looking for. I found this.

"Asked if Ned ever used Ice in battle. George points out it was a greatsword, very large and cumbersome, a ceremonial sword for beheading people more than a fighting sword, so he suggests that it was "probably too heavy and clumsy" to use unless you're the Mountain."

It was on Reddit but had a link to SSM Here are both. Not sure if that helps, but don't know of Not A blogs new info update section ar at least I never paid enough attention to notice it if I was on it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/3bmyg2/spoilers_all_grrm_ned_never_used_ice_in_battle/

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Month/2015/06/

Thank you! That's what I was thinking of. I'm not sure why I remembered it as a Not a blog comment.

In a series called Ice and Fire, googling Ice can be hazardous to your search.

Yup, that was the problem.

[Ser Creighton]

As I said I believe a Targaryen would have had  to sacrifice themselves by blowing the horn so their family could be bound to dragons for generations to come. So I think that fits the idea of "no magic without sacrifice"  I do believe that Daenerys's dragons are "Lightbringer."  

Either way, I'd be willing to bet we will see a horn work in Winds. Isn't the cover a picture of a horn? 

Thank you! That's what I was thinking of. I'm not sure why I remembered it as a Not a blog comment.

Yup, that was the problem.

I don't think you need to be a Targaryen sacrifice, Drogo wasn't a Targaryen. However, funny enough, Kings blood, they all had Kings blood to an extent. Viserys, Rhaego and Drogo, Khal means King. So I did find that interesting and there is a hint of it when Drogon returns to Dany the Grass of the Dothraki sea bowed to him.

With limited Dragon hatching info, it's just speculation though. Valyrian steel also seems to have the blood magic thing going for it. For the series I don't know how much the question will actually come up. Because we already got the Dragons, and chances are they will be ridden by Targs or people with Targ blood. Despite Valyria of the past it's pretty much a Targ thing now and a Targ thing for the series.

It's a cover man, Dance with Dragons had an Ouroboros on it, we didn't get a literal Ouroboros, it was just symbolic of the story. We have already seen the horn used, I am saying it isn't going to work. My personal belief is that there will be some winds in winds, and some winter in winds of winter. I think we are going to get a lot of sea action or at least a lot of fleet movments, Dance set that up, every major fleet in the world seems to be on the move save Braavos, and I will not be surprised to find them in play as well.

Anyway it was no problem I always look for ways to avoid using Ice and Fire when googling anything in the series.

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

 

I don't think you need to be a Targaryen sacrifice, Drogo wasn't a Targaryen. However, funny enough, Kings blood, they all had Kings blood to an extent. Viserys, Rhaego and Drogo, Khal means King. So I did find that interesting and there is a hint of it when Drogon returns to Dany the Grass of the Dothraki sea bowed to him.

With limited Dragon hatching info, it's just speculation though. Valyrian steel also seems to have the blood magic thing going for it. For the series I don't know how much the question will actually come up. Because we already got the Dragons, and chances are they will be ridden by Targs or people with Targ blood. Despite Valyria of the past it's pretty much a Targ thing now and a Targ thing for the series.

It's a cover man, Dance with Dragons had an Ouroboros on it, we didn't get a literal Ouroboros, it was just symbolic of the story. We have already seen the horn used, I am saying it isn't going to work. My personal be7lief is that there will be some winds in winds, and some winter in winds of winter. I think we are going to get a lot of sea action or at least a lot of fleet movments, Dance set that up, every major fleet in the world seems to be on the move save Braavos, and I will not be surprised to find them in play as well.

Anyway it was no problem I always look for ways to avoid using Ice and Fire when googling anything in the series.

 

 

"The dragon is time. It has no beginning and no ending, so all things come round again." 

 

[Ser Creighton]

 

 

"The dragon is time. It has no beginning and no ending, so all things come round again." 

 

Yeah I know, it's cyclical, I know what an Ouroboros is, hence why I know the name Ouroboros. A Dance with Dragons, history repeats I know. Though it is heavily symbolic, Ghis and the Valyrians, though this is actually different in many ways, still a conflict. But not the exact same story. Jon and Dany Juxtaposed, they are dancing.

Dragonbinder, if history repeats, especially recent history then another giant black and gold banded horns is going to get destroyed by a red priest before we know if it actually works. Though I do find the idea of a magic dragon dog whistle funny. Quick I need a magic choker and leash, Drogon, potty out, potty out. Come on boy, come on, fetch the Harpy. No, no bad Drogon, bad dragon, drop the Great master. Sorry Hiz he forgets your almost people and can't kill you without permission. Oooooh, his head is down, no it's okay Dro Dro, I get confused and kill the slavers sometimes too, it's okay they really arn't people anyway. Here Hiz why don't we do some trust exercises with Drogon so you two can bond and he can see your not bad. Now just do me a favor and get in the catapult. No he will catch you I swear it... Yeah with his mouth how else do you want him to catch you? Now get in the scoop.

[finger]

There must be a link, of bond, that goes both ways.

Dany's dragons seem to like Ben Plumm, who has some drops of Targ blood,

The other way round, Viserys frequently claims to be the blood of the dragon, even though it's Dany who feels the dragon inside.

Related to this, there's a scene between Tyrion and Jon, when Tyrion tells he had dragon dreams, and wished to ride one of those. Off topic. I guess.

 

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

My question comes from Jon II in CoK. 

A group of NW are in Whitetree, a former willing village north of the wall. They find burned skulls and Mormont, apparently just discarding the skull (I think), tosses the skull into the mouth of a wierwood tree. 

"He tossed the skull back into the mouth of the tree, where it landed with a puff of fine ash."

Is there any significance to this? Why toss it into the tree? Am I reading to much into this? 

Thanks in advance!

[Lost Melnibonean]

My question comes from Jon II in CoK. 

A group of NW are in Whitetree, a former willing village north of the wall. They find burned skulls and Mormont, apparently just discarding the skull (I think), tosses the skull into the mouth of a wierwood tree. 

"He tossed the skull back into the mouth of the tree, where it landed with a puff of fine ash."

Is there any significance to this? Why toss it into the tree? Am I reading to much into this? 

Thanks in advance!

I don't know, but there were two skulls, one smaller than the other, suggesting a parent and child, and the colors were red on black-red sap on blackened wood.