BadWo1f Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Nobody thinks AA story is just that, a story? We all know GRRM loves to have conflicted views on things, like real historical sources do. We know Others can be killed, Sam proved they can be killed by everyone (because he is a lame fighter), I wouldn't be surprised if there is no AA, just a bunch of brave people with swords and dragons. I'm connecting AA and Last Hero as it looks OP meant the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Buckethead Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 "Obvious" is in the eye of the beholder. One thing that many people think is "obvious" is that Illyrio never thought that Dany might hatch those dragon eggs. I think it is completely within the realm of possibility that Illyrio gave Dany the eggs in the hope she would hatch them. I agree, but I still find the most likely explanation to be that the dragon eggs were a device used by Illyrio to set pieces in motion (in his game of thrones)Even without the dragons, the eggs were valuable. They could buy the Targaryens many mercenaries, which also means they could help Illyrio achieve his goals in Westeros (whatever those goals were) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellstaysia Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I don't get how folks can make such bold assumptions about what's going to happen. the ned got executed in book one & no one saw it coming. we do not know what's coming in winds, or dream. some of these speculations I agree with but others are pure guess work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drogonthedread Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 1. How is it obvious that Dany is AAR? The identity of AAR is one of the most debated things by this community. There are many people that fit the criteria for AAR and if someone is missing some requirements for AAR THERE RE TWO MORE BOOKS. Also bringing up the show... at this point I'm convinced that the majority of Daenerys fans are show-onlys.2. No. It's not clear at all. The way you're describing it here suggests a final battle Others vs Humans. I personally believe that will not happen. I personally believe that the Others are not evil and the final battle will be North vs South, Stark vs Targaryen, you know... Ice vs Fire.3. Or maybe he's not dead, or maybe he'll be resurrected by the Others, or maybe by Bran/BR. Again, not clear at all.4. This statement assumes all fans like both Jon and Dany, while in reality the majority of Jon fans dislike Dany and vice versa. At most, one of them dying would be bittersweet only for some people. Also, GRRM's idea of bittersweet is LOTR's ending... How do we know this???1 ..yep a character that got her own book and fetched an hugo award for GRRM ...and one of the characters of the series and one who is at the top 4 in terms of No of povs and who have ended two of the four books she was present have only fans because of the show ......Stop generalizing the fans like you know them .....just go back and read the threads and debates about her before this decade .....what was the reason then when there was no show...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jak Scaletongue Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 "LOTS" in all capitals overestimates the amount of people that don't believe R+L=J. Also why do people think it's important for the Westerosi to find out about R+L=J? The main point of RLJ is Jon being the Song of Ice and Fire. Compared to that, potentially having a claim on the IT is irrelevant. Who cares if no one in Westeros believes it?Emphasis - I capitalized "LOTS" for emphasis. I'm still kind of used to commenting on news sites, where I don't have bold, underline and italic options. Personally, and I'm not speaking for anyone but myself, I don't think it will be important, matter, or even make a big impact on Westeros. As far as I can tell, R+L=J will be important for Jon. Maybe Dany, Sansa, Arya, Bran and Rickon, too. I think it will have a personal effect on Jon and those closest to him, not an effect on Westeros as a whole. But, I also think Jon will have a huge impact on Westeros as a whole - whether he's Lyanna and Rhaegar's son, Lyanna and Howland's, Ashara and Brandon's, etc. It doesn't matter WHO his biological parents are, Jon will have a big impact on Westeros as whole. Probably cause he's likely to be a big part of defeating the Others, but it could end up being anything - he could have a big impact on Westeros as a whole if he takes control of the Others and overruns Westeros! I find that scenario *less* likely than the other, but I try not to rule anything out...In short, my personal opinion is that Jon's parentage will matter only to Jon and those closest to him. But Jon (regardless of who his parents are) will likely have a very large impact on Westeros as whole, based on his abilities, NOT his parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOT A TARG I SWEAR Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 R + J = L. WAY TOO OBVIOUS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 It's obvious only when you know the answer. It is also obvious we know nothing.The Others take our predictions. Winter is coming for us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerevanin Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Oh is it? I'd say that the only "obvious" thing is R+L=J and that's it. The rest is just speculations and nothing more. The novels are full of red herrings and I wouldn't bet that this or that is guaranteed to happen. How do we know this???I think that it was mentioned somewhere in the GRRM's letter to his editor where the main storylines were mentioned although even now it is obvious that GRRM changed his mind about a lot of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamWhiteWalkerz Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Oh is it? I'd say that the only "obvious" thing is R+L=J and that's it. The rest is just speculations and nothing more. The novels are full of red herrings and I wouldn't bet that this or that is guaranteed to happen.This is the most accurate comment in this entire thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finger Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 WE KNOW NONE OF THIS!!!! except that first oneDon't we? The original plan for the series is known. GRRM has made some changes, but I don't think he can change the essence.Anyway, I wouldn't spoil your reading. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamWhiteWalkerz Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Don't we? The original plan for the series is known. GRRM has made some changes, but I don't think he can change the essence.Anyway, I wouldn't spoil your reading. Enjoy!Was that original plan the same one with Jon fighting Tyrion for Arya's love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PyroclasticFlow Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Ned actually died at ToJ and Howland Reed wore his face from then until Baelors Sept. Jon will never know who his mother was. Some woman, no doubt. Most of them are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gertrude Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 People have touched on the reasons why I think the OP's question is missing the point.Even if you know a couple of plot points, the how is the interesting part. OK, assuming Dany is Azor Ahai - what does that mean? She sweeps in on her dragons, kills the Others and lives happily ever after with Jon? Or does she fight her destiny and reluctantly move from her throne in King's Landing only to sacrifice herself to ensure the Others are beaten back.I've watched Star Wars so many times because I enjoy the story, even though I know that Luke has a secret heritage, he discovers a special power and his mentor Obi Wan dies in the end. I mean, how predictable is that?Personally, I am looking forward to how it all resolves. That and rubbing my friends' faces in it when their theories are proven wrong :p. Yes, dammit, Jaime is the valonqar. (you know who you are) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya-Jon Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 That and rubbing my friends' faces in it when their theories are proven wrong :p. Yes, dammit, Jaime is the valonqar. (you know who you are) Licking my lips on that one. I get why most people think this may happen. But I still think they would be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran the Shipper Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 There is a lot of foreshadowing in this series, which makes it seem predictable. Someone might have figured some of it, others might guess at something else that comes true. But I don't think the story will be too obvious when it actually comes out, because what some people see as being obvious others see the exact opposite. Yes I think that R+L=J is all but confirmed, but how significant that is I couldn't guess at (I'm still not convinced Jon is even coming back). I think Tyrion is on his way to being one of the primary antagonists others see him as a hero. Several people are sure Bran will survive the series, but to me his death/transition to an old god is vital to the progression of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoamingRonin Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Sorry about that. R + L = J. And it just seems like there's no great twists to be had. The rest of the story seems fairly easy to predict (at least in terms of the more important characters). Idk. The show is making it tremendously obvious that Dany "wins" in the end. I know what you meant. I was teasing. The thing about Jon's parentage is... GRRM definitely needs to twist the "hidden heir" troupe on its head. He can't just have Jon be the savior and the king of all of Westeros. Ned was the protagonist and died. Robb was supposed to avenge him and died. Jon is supposed to be the heir and it seems he did die but I doubt it... What's in store is the big surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Comeplete bullshit, at least for the bolded ones. Dany, Tyrion and the Starks have so much plot armor, that them dying anytime before the last third of ADOS is impossible. Jon has even more plot armor, considering he's already died and Bran will 100% survive till the end.There is no plot armor with Martin. He has been more than clear on multiple occasions: he doesn't want readers to be comfortable thinking that any character is safe because they are important to the story. When its time to die, its time to die, even if it is a pointless, meaningless death. The characters are not acting out a story. They are living their lives, and in life death just happens sometimes -- even if destinies go unfulfilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamWhiteWalkerz Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 There is no plot armor with Martin. He has been more than clear on multiple occasions: he doesn't want readers to be comfortable thinking that any character is safe because they are important to the story. When its time to die, its time to die, even if it is a pointless, meaningless death. The characters are not acting out a story. They are living their lives, and in life death just happens sometimes -- even if destinies go unfulfilled.No. A character dies when it has served its purpose. Ned was done, Robb was done, Oberyn was done, Tywin was done. No death is meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farerb Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 No. A character dies when it has served its purpose. Ned was done, Robb was done, Oberyn was done, Tywin was done. No death is meaningless.I agree. GRRM doesn't kill characters for nothing. Their death is relevant to set the rest of the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Suburbs Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 No. A character dies when it has served its purpose. Ned was done, Robb was done, Oberyn was done, Tywin was done. No death is meaningless.Sorry, it may look like that in hindsight, but each of these characters would have done more if they lived. Ned would have joined Jon at the wall and fought the others. Robb would have retaken winterfell then marched south to kill Joffrey. Oberyn would have set his sights on Tywin.If Stannis died at storms end and Renley marched on kl, would you say that Stan had to die in order for ren to fulfill his arc?Each character is the hero of their own story, just like real life, and people die with things unsaid, promises unkept and goals not accomplished.Give it another read and you'll see all kinds of meaningless deaths -- from their perspectives, not your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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