The Knight of Night Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 The line is "now there were 4, and one he could no longer sense"Ghost - 1Nymeria - 2Shaggydog - 3Summer - 4Summer is north of the wall, so Ghost cannot sense him, but he knows he is there.I've heard people say that the Wall keeps him from sensing, but between Orell's eagle and the wight that attacked Mormont being south of it I have my doubts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knight of Night Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 "Whalen demanded his sword and he gave it over meek enough, but when the crossbowmen began feathering the wolf he seized Whalen’s axe and cut the monster loose of the net they’d thrown over him." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 He's dead. Robb is dead. His wolf is dead. Dany saw it and Theon dreamed it, and we read it.True, that was a very poorly constructed sentence about the four and the one he couldn't sense.....kind of like "thin hips" and "woman's hips" or whatever it was that spawned the insanity about Jeyne wasn't a clue but an inconsistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bea Noleto Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share Posted January 15, 2016 We can speculate that Greywind didn't actually die but what could he contribute to the plot if he was still alive? We already have a direwolf in the Riverlands with Nymeria, there isn't a reason I can think of why Martin would want to fake out Greywind's murder and keep him alive secretly if Nymeria is capable of carrying out the potential role he could play in the story herself.His death was awful but I'd rather he and Robb stay dead. We already had Cat come back, Greywind still being alive would just cheapen the Red Wedding even further.I don't think Cat becoming Lady Stoneheart cheapens the RW. I think it made it only more horrifying, or at least gave the exact perspective of how wrong, how disrupting it was, that even the dead won't stay that way. Concerning Greywind, I think it would be fitting that since we have Sansa without her wolf, we could have a wolf without his warg. He could protect her and keep her company, and prove without a doubt her identity. Or perhaps Greywind could be passed to Robb's son? I know I am piling wishfull thinking here, but don't you think it is odd that in Riverrun they still uphold the Young Wolf banner? Perhaps the mistake that GRRM made was not to give different descriptions of the same girl, but making the swap too obvious. I think he means to give some hope after so much horror, and Greywind being alive could be one symbol of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadlines? What Deadlines? Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Aside from all the obvious reasons why Greywind is dead, If you include the sample chapters from TWOW, there have been anywhere from 1500-2000 pages of ASOIAF written since the Red Wedding and that wolf makes no appearance and is never mentioned or hinted at being alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Aside from all the obvious reasons why Greywind is dead, If you include the sample chapters from TWOW, there have been anywhere from 1500-2000 pages of ASOIAF written since the Red Wedding and that wolf makes no appearance and is never mentioned or hinted at being alive.Yeah but if he shows up can you imagine all the fun of Greywind explaining how he escaped and what he has been up too? Roo, Rooo ... Roo Roo Rodged Rarrows, Rindow, Ranon Rall rinto Rriver. Does doggy paddle motion with his paws. Rwim rooo rhore, roo roo, roooo rooo, Rymeria, Rower Razy Ritch, ritched re, Rady Roneheart ro Razy, rad roo reave rand rind Ransa, ro ronely rand rungery, Round Randor, re's a ritch roo, Ri ras rike, rind ransa, rut he ras rike Ri'm rigging roles. Rell Ruck Rou roser. Ro I rame to rhe Rale, and Rittle Finger rride to rurt me, rut Ri rescaped, rand round rou, Reywind rad rand ronley, rut now rappy roo re ransa. Ransa rot rood ror Reywind? Rease? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrow of the Morning Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Greywind is dead. There is no way the Frey would allow him to live and I doubt he escaped from the Twins.We have also Jon's dream where he was walking in the crypts of Winterfell while he heard that a feast was being held and the sound of drums above and he saw a grey Direwolf with golden eyes and covered in blood.But it was only a direwolf, grey and ghastly, spotted with blood, his golden eyes shining sadly through the dark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I've heard people say that the Wall keeps him from sensing, but between Orell's eagle and the wight that attacked Mormont being south of it I have my doubts.Plus the mirroring quote from book 3 in Summer's PoVSometimes he could sense them, though, as if they were still with him, only hidden from his sight by a boulder or a stand of trees. He could not smell them, nor hear their howls by night, yet he felt their presence at his back . . . all but the sister they had lost. His tail drooped when he remembered her. Four now, not five. Four and one more, the white who has no voice.It seems Summer can sense Ghost (north of the wall at the time) just fine.He's dead. Robb is dead. His wolf is dead. Dany saw it and Theon dreamed it, and we read it.True, that was a very poorly constructed sentence about the four and the one he couldn't sense.....kind of like "thin hips" and "woman's hips" or whatever it was that spawned the insanity about Jeyne wasn't a clue but an inconsistency.Theon also dreamed Harwin dead. Harwin is quite alive.Dany dreamed of a king with the head of a wolf, not a dire wolf.Aside from all the obvious reasons why Greywind is dead, If you include the sample chapters from TWOW, there have been anywhere from 1500-2000 pages of ASOIAF written since the Red Wedding and that wolf makes no appearance and is never mentioned or hinted at being alive.Other than the repeated hints that he is alive...GoHH's prophecy... Jaime's talk with the Freys at Riverrun... Davos' similar faked death... Varamyr's comment about a dire wolf being a fitting second life for a king... Bran's doubt that Grey Wind is dead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impbread Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Hes dead. Ghost can no longer sense him or lady because they are dead. It is known. i wish it was not so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonkers Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Sorry, there are too many references for me about a man with a wolf's head, and people talking about it. I think it would be weird if grey wind ran off somewhere, I mean, we already have sooo much, I don't know what it would possibly add to the story to have him still alive. Also, I'm pretty sure Lady Stoneheart even has it mentioned around the chapters with er, but I can't recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto2 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Greywind is dead.Fun observation: i find it very likely that Robb warged Greywind with his last words (his last words were Greywind), which means Robb was killed twice the same night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevasTra82 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Sorry, there are too many references for me about a man with a wolf's head, and people talking about it. I think it would be weird if grey wind ran off somewhere, I mean, we already have sooo much, I don't know what it would possibly add to the story to have him still alive. Also, I'm pretty sure Lady Stoneheart even has it mentioned around the chapters with er, but I can't recall.This.They cut off his head and sewed it onto Robbs body. Hundreds of people saw it happen and saw the aftermath. I have no idea how anyone could possibly believe he is still alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 There a many reasons to believe Greywind is dead, including godly Bran "feelings". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jak Scaletongue Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 This.They cut off his head and sewed it onto Robbs body. Hundreds of people saw it happen and saw the aftermath. I have no idea how anyone could possibly believe he is still alive.First of - I'm not arguing that Grey Wind is alive, for the purposes of my question, alive or dead is irrelevant. I'm of the "I can see this going either way" opinion.What are the mechanics of sewing a direwolf head about the size of a horse/pony head to a teenaged kid? I can't see it staying on. Not without the snout hanging down to Robb's belly. You'd end up with just a hunched over body with some fuzzy ears maybe sticking up. Or they'd have to sew it on somewhere lower than Robb's neck, just to maintain a proper centre of gravity. They'd get a better "display" using a regular-size wolf's head, wouldn't they? (Roose got himself some wolf corpses at Harrenhal...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 This.They cut off his head and sewed it onto Robbs body. Hundreds of people saw it happen and saw the aftermath. I have no idea how anyone could possibly believe he is still alive.Hundreds of people also saw Davos' head on Manderly's walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevasTra82 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Hundreds of people also saw Davos' head on Manderly's walls.Yes, but Davos is an ordinary man....a Direwolf is entirely different. You can easily fake a smuggler's head, you cannot so easily fake a direwolf...and animal not seen south of the wall in hundreds of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Yes, but Davos is an ordinary man....a Direwolf is entirely different. You can easily fake a smuggler's head, you cannot so easily fake a direwolf...and animal not seen south of the wall in hundreds of years.Yet it's established that both:A - Most people (therefore especially uneducated smallfolk) do NOT know the difference between regular wolves and dire wolves (Bran & Luwin). B - Men see what they expect to see (Arya & Syrio{so specific to explain how so many people were mistaking a common tomcat for a mystical beast...}) & (Arya & Kindly Man). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jak Scaletongue Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Yes, but Davos is an ordinary man....a Direwolf is entirely different. You can easily fake a smuggler's head, you cannot so easily fake a direwolf...and animal not seen south of the wall in hundreds of years.Wouldn't that make it EASIER to fake it? If no one knows what a direwolf looks like then they don't know how much bigger a direwolf should be. Just find a larger than average wolf and you're set! If you tell them it's a direwolf, they'll believe you! People see what they want to see - it's been pointed out a few times in the books (and goes for real life, as well!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigUpHerBones Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 i think Lady being alive is much, much more probable...and fits Sansa's arc better as they are both kind of out there on their own, looking for their kin...we know direwolves have an amazing sense of humans intentions, ESPECIALLY Starks, so why was she not scared? or try to escape? she had to know her fate at that point...Ned took her to the woods, and she "trusted" him...i know a wolf carcass was taken to WF, but that could have been to throw off Cers as easily as it could have been Lady, she was no where close to being full grown and NOBODY would have questioned it, especially without the head...plus, IMAGINE the scene of Bran watching Ned and Lady thru Weirnet and Ned telling her to get out of there...as he finds a perfectly fresh wolf carcass under the tree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beautiful Bloody Sword Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Arya did not see anything, Sandor knocked her out as she was running towards the castle. But yes, he is dead, head stitched to Robb's body, as seen in Daenerys visions in the house of the undyings, and multiple witnesses. The loss is also also sensed by Summer/Bran just before they reach the Wall. We also get the report from Jaime that Raynald Westerling tried to save Grey Wind when they were shooting him and got shot too for his troubles. The death is not on page, but being alive after that many corroborating reports would be ridiculous.No bodies, and they both leapt into the river, ever recovered. I'm not too big on this, but the door was left open with no corpses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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