Lord Wraith Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 On 9/1/2016 at 8:42 PM, Lost Melnibonean said: But not Ramsay. Never Ramsay. Nor Petyr. Ramsay no, Baelish maybe 3% if anyone could do it its Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Black Hole of Ice & Fire Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 I've seen it sometimes argued in discussions about the valonqar that High Valyrian is gender neutral, meaning Cersei could die by the hands of a little sister. However the only time I can remember the issue of gender neutrality being mentioned is when Maester Aemon tells Sam the "Prince that was Promised" could in fact be a Princess instead. But I thought the mistranslation had nothing to do with High Valyrian itself and actually stems from dragons being neither male or female. I've tried to find the answer myself but have come up empty handed. So basically, what am I missing here? Is it due to the natural biology of dragons, the specific translation of the word "dragon" in High Valyrian, or that the entire language doesn't ever differentiate between the sexes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 1 hour ago, A Black Hole of Ice & Fire said: I've seen it sometimes argued in discussions about the valonqar that High Valyrian is gender neutral, meaning Cersei could die by the hands of a little sister. However the only time I can remember the issue of gender neutrality being mentioned is when Maester Aemon tells Sam the "Prince that was Promised" could in fact be a Princess instead. But I thought the mistranslation had nothing to do with High Valyrian itself and actually stems from dragons being neither male or female. I've tried to find the answer myself but have come up empty handed. So basically, what am I missing here? Is it due to the natural biology of dragons, the specific translation of the word "dragon" in High Valyrian, or that the entire language doesn't ever differentiate between the sexes? According to Aemon, it was the translation of the word where it all went wrong. However, that is in reference to the High Valyrian for the "Prince that was Promised". It says absolutely nothing about the translation of valonqar. That said, the fact that the word for prince/princess is apparently gender neutral has given rise to theories that the word valonqar could mean little sister as well, and not specifically little brother (so the translation would be something like little sibling, for example). The idea behind the theories is that, is one word in High Valyrian is gender neutral, perhaps there are more who are gender neutral. But it is by no means confirmed that valonqar is gender neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 1 hour ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said: According to Aemon, it was the translation of the word where it all went wrong. However, that is in reference to the High Valyrian for the "Prince that was Promised". It says absolutely nothing about the translation of valonqar. That said, the fact that the word for prince/princess is apparently gender neutral has given rise to theories that the word valonqar could mean little sister as well, and not specifically little brother (so the translation would be something like little sibling, for example). The idea behind the theories is that, is one word in High Valyrian is gender neutral, perhaps there are more who are gender neutral. But it is by no means confirmed that valonqar is gender neutral. Looking at the quote, it would appear that the Valyrian word for "dragon" is gender neutral rather than "prince/princess". It'd be weird for "prince/princess" to be gender neutral but if the sex of dragons are really interchangeable or if this is what Valyrians originally believed then it makes sense for the High Valyrian word for "dragon" to be gender neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 25 minutes ago, Consigliere said: Looking at the quote, it would appear that the Valyrian word for "dragon" is gender neutral rather than "prince/princess". It'd be weird for "prince/princess" to be gender neutral but if the sex of dragons are really interchangeable or if this is what Valyrians originally believed then it makes sense for the High Valyrian word for "dragon" to be gender neutral. But if the text of the prophecy stated the High Valyrian word for dragon, where did the idea come from to look for a Prince, and not just any Targaryen/person of Valyrian descent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 Is asearchoficeandfire.com still working for you guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrio Mo'Parties Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 1 minute ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said: Is asearchoficeandfire.com still working for you guys? Yep. Re: the abovementioned prophecy, is there any indication that it originated in the Valyrian language? If not, it could be possible that the gender/translation issues occur earlier in the chain, and therefore that the Valyrian for "prince" might not be gender neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 2 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said: But if the text of the prophecy stated the High Valyrian word for dragon, where did the idea come from to look for a Prince, and not just any Targaryen/person of Valyrian descent? Those interpreting the prophecy may have equated "dragon" with "male Targaryen/Valyrian" that later evolved into "prince". Afterall, the prophecy, according to Aemon, is at least a thousand years old and there were no princes in Valyria. ETA. @Illyrio Mo'Parties : that is reasonable speculation as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 6 hours ago, A Black Hole of Ice & Fire said: I've seen it sometimes argued in discussions about the valonqar that High Valyrian is gender neutral, meaning Cersei could die by the hands of a little sister. However the only time I can remember the issue of gender neutrality being mentioned is when Maester Aemon tells Sam the "Prince that was Promised" could in fact be a Princess instead. But I thought the mistranslation had nothing to do with High Valyrian itself and actually stems from dragons being neither male or female. I've tried to find the answer myself but have come up empty handed. So basically, what am I missing here? Is it due to the natural biology of dragons, the specific translation of the word "dragon" in High Valyrian, or that the entire language doesn't ever differentiate between the sexes? I don't really understand it, but apparently Valyrian has four genders that have nothing to do with sex. Though that was presumably decided by David Peterson and not Martin. 36 minutes ago, Consigliere said: there were no princes in Valyria. Actually there were sorcerer princes. From the worldbook: Quote Some of the sorcerer princes also took more than one wife when it pleased them, though this was less common than incestuous marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 On 6-9-2016 at 2:47 PM, Illyrio Mo'Parties said: Yep. Strange. The website hasn't been working for me all week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 On 9/6/2016 at 8:44 AM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said: Is asearchoficeandfire.com still working for you guys? I had a problem with it Sunday. Was asking if I could spare the price of a beer. I'm being serious not joking around. It is working okay for me today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Did Bloodraven tell Bran that he had been watching all the Starks or just Bran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted September 8, 2016 Author Share Posted September 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Did Bloodraven tell Bran that he had been watching all the Starks or just Bran? "A … crow?" The pale lord's voice was dry. His lips moved slowly, as if they had forgotten how to form words. "Once, aye. Black of garb and black of blood." The clothes he wore were rotten and faded, spotted with moss and eaten through with worms, but once they had been black. "I have been many things, Bran. Now I am as you see me, and now you will understand why I could not come to you … except in dreams. I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one. I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you. I saw your first step, heard your first word, was part of your first dream. I was watching when you fell. And now you are come to me at last, Brandon Stark, though the hour is late." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nittanian Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 The wiki's Bestiary mentions kangaroos with AGOT 18 as a source, but I don't see anything in Catelyn IV. The closest I can find is from Arya IV, "The ships of Braavos sail as far as the winds blow, to lands strange and wonderful, and when they return their captains fetch queer animals to the Sealord's menagerie. Such animals as you have never seen, striped horses, great spotted things with necks as long as stilts, hairy mouse-pigs as big as cows, stinging manticores, tigers that carry their cubs in a pouch, terrible walking lizards with scythes for claws." This sounds like a thylacine, however. Does GRRM mention anything else resembling a kangaroo, or should it be changed in the wiki? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 17 minutes ago, Nittanian said: The wiki's Bestiary mentions kangaroos with AGOT 18 as a source, but I don't see anything in Catelyn IV. The closest I can find is from Arya IV, "The ships of Braavos sail as far as the winds blow, to lands strange and wonderful, and when they return their captains fetch queer animals to the Sealord's menagerie. Such animals as you have never seen, striped horses, great spotted things with necks as long as stilts, hairy mouse-pigs as big as cows, stinging manticores, tigers that carry their cubs in a pouch, terrible walking lizards with scythes for claws." This sounds like a thylacine, however. Does GRRM mention anything else resembling a kangaroo, or should it be changed in the wiki? I think I read thylacine there too. I don't recall any kangaroo allusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BricksAndSparrows Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Quote Does the Wall block warging? It appears so. Jon Snow isn't capable of connecting with Ghost anymore, when they have the Wall in between them, nor can Jon, warged in Ghost, feel Summer when Summer is north of the Wall, and Jon and Ghost south. Whether this is the same for each warg/skinchanger, or depends on the strength of the individual, is a matter of discussion. It does appear that Bran, warged into the weirwood net, can see south of the Wall, whilst being north of it. I just wanted to add on to this, because I noticed that Bran reached out to Ghost and saw Jon from the Crypts under Winterfell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaedys Targaryen Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Here's a question: Do the priests of the Drowned God take any vows, like never marrying, never having children, never owning any lands, castles or titles, etc.? Because it doesn't appear to me that they take any vows nor does the Drowned God seem to be the kind of god to demand that kind of thing of his priests, but most of the priests we've encountered just don't have any of those things (if there is one who does have, let's say, a wife and children, please point him out). Also, are there also any priestesses of the Drowned God? We haven't seen any, so are they not allowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakhearts head Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Was Qhorin Halfhand high born? Rereading some chapters from A Clash of Kings, Qhorin was surprisingly eloquent for someone who I assumed didn't come from a noble family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illyrio Mo'Parties Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 2 hours ago, Oakhearts head said: Was Qhorin Halfhand high born? Rereading some chapters from A Clash of Kings, Qhorin was surprisingly eloquent for someone who I assumed didn't come from a noble family. Not necessarily. He was an officer in a military order. You're expected to uphold certain standards, no matter your background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nittanian Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 20 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: I think I read thylacine there too. I don't recall any kangaroo allusions. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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