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[Spoilers] Criticize without repercussion

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1 hour ago, TepidHands said:

I came in here to say just that. In a show with magic, dragons, giant wolves parricide and infanticide, resurrection, incest, and murders all around, did I want to go to sleep? It's not bad; it's boring! Which is worse than bad, really. Season 5 was bad, but this wasn't even holding my attention through the next egregiosity. 

This. Snoozefest. The only thing that really happened that wasn't completely obvious or stoopid was Jon's resurrection, which was like, why did they bother?

Davos gives Shireen Killer a pep talk. More body washing (like we needed more after all of budding mortician Arya's body washing). Hair clipping and burning... ewwwwww! And then Jon wakes up from a bad dream.

Is that all there is? Is that all there is. If that's all there is...

 

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28 minutes ago, Zara Zokan said:

Tyrion has Dany's Meereen plotline, guess D&D need to backtrack so their post-ADWD fanfic stuff actually makes "sense". Gotta love him patronising literal genius and long-time resident of Slaver's Bay, Missandei. The dragons like Tyrion because who wouldn't. (I could actually expect D&D to make A+J=T canon though...)

One of the many, many problems I had with those scenes, is that the writer actually went out of their way to re-establish that the dragons are familiar with Missandei and thus less likely to attack her (let's all ignore that Deadpan ran away from them last time they interacted). Having taken the time to do so they then have Tyrion (and cheerleader Varys), who are both total strangers, go alone to release them. :bang:

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We're on the second episode and we already got 3 kinslayings. The fact that this kind of crime has no negative repercussion at all makes you wonder why Cersei endured Robert for so long when it could be so easy to just stab him to death. In fact it makes you wonder about all forced weddings and unhappy families in all the Seven Kingdoms: they could avoid all trouble just killing off their kin.

My thoughts on the episode, by order:
BRAN: He was thrown in the floor and he spend his days there grabbing a root? That's it? WHY THE THREE EYED CROW has two eyes? Why he is so clean and shaved and with cut hair? Does Leaf have a barber shop down the cave? They even have a fucking door. I don't think this is a nitpick, guys... if a dude comes and say that he's been in a cave for a hundred years, I expect to see dirt, beard, long hair and fingernails.. just like what you expect from an hermit. 

THE WALL: man, I just want the show to explain to me why Ser Davos is SO INVESTED in Jon Snow's corpse. Not only he wants to sacrifice his own life to... to... to what? to stop the Black Watch to burn Jon's corpse? Why he locked himself with the body? Why this is important for him? And worse still... MY GOD, the dialogue... "PLEASE MELISANDRE! TELL ME! DO YOU KNOW ANY WAY TO BRING JON BACK TO LIFE? Try hard to remember Mel! Think about the third season! No? Nothing? Melisandre, IT IS VERY IMPORTANT for you to remember a conversation you had with ANOTHER red priest! Remember???"... oh god, this was so forced, so contrived, so artificial... it was so heavy-handed they could just freeze everything and make D&D appear on the green screen to explain what they wanted to achieve.

KING'S LANDING: it is funny how the show has not a hint of any sense of proportion. the scene with the man joking about Cersei had 3 purposes, to what I can understand: 1) to show the audience how the rest of King's Landing processes the shaming walk event, 2) show us that Ser Robert Strong cares/protects/defends Cersei Lannister and 3) some sort of social 'justice' by punishing the douchebag for being a douchebag. 

It is a shame though that I can't do less than sympathize for the man, as he lives a shitty life, drowning in poverty and dirt, and having his life endangered by senseless wars, all by Cersei's fault. A dirty joke is literally the ONLY way the poor folk can express their feelings towards the powerful monarchy, and yet the show goes out of his way only to show us that not only they can't have even that, the smallborn should be ashamed of such actions. C'mon.

THE SEPT: I really like the High Sparrow, but I think the script does not help him. I mean, we have two narratives going on with this character on this scene. The first is his dialogue. He basically says he don't care if Jaime kills him, and this successfully disturbs the Lannister. The High Sparrow is such a zealot that he don't mind dying for what he believes, and this is such a powerful statement that was enough to shake Jaime's wishes of murdering him there. But the second narrative is completely opposite: the Faith militants surrounding Jaime ready to attack. 

I watched this and I was like "wait, what is going on... if he is not afraid of being killed by Jaime, then WHY use his soldiers as an intimidating factor to stop Jaime?" to be willing to use the force of men to stop or kill Jaime (even if only to avenge the High Sparrow and not to save him) is an expression of resistance to dying. The script builds a setting that just undermine what the dialogue is expressing. At the end what I understood is that the High Sparrow was BLUFFING about accepting his death. If he really didn't mind he would not need the militants to stop Jaime. His mere words would be enough.

 

MEEREEN: WHAT WAS THE POINT OF ASKING MYSSANDEI ABOUT BEING IN THE PRESENCE OF THE DRAGONS if he didn't intend to taking her to the dragonpit with him?? The notion that taking her would calm the dragons as they see her as a friend was a clever one, but the show went to the opposite direction: "well, if they think you're a friend THEN they are capable of seeing anyone as a friend!! *_*" 
man, c'mon, who writes this shit?


WINTERFELL/BOLTONS: AAH! I don't mind Ramsay anymore. He is such a unbelievable character that I can't feel nothing for him. He'll always succeed, but there is something that I caught with my eye. Did you guys noticed how this season Ramsay is a bit more... human? He sorrows for his girlfriend, he seems disturbed by his father's death, he is not even PLEASED with Fat Walda dying (he in fact look away while he is attacked). I believe D&D reached a point where it is just unbearable to and impossible to maintain a sadistic character so badly written for so long, and so, to not turn him into a even more grotesque cartoon, they're trying to inject some emotion in him, some humanity. The problem with this idea is that to put humanity in him when he is at the end of his story (and oh, he is... he will probably die by Jon Snow's hands) makes him look like he ONLY loses because he turned "human", in the sense that, when he was just a bastard in the kennels laughing while people were skinned, he was undestructible, but when he is the fucking Great Lord of the North he has fears, and feelings and regrets, and so he LOSES. It is a way of PUNISHING him for gaining humanity, it is a way of saying: look, in our show, if you're not sadistic or a avenging warrior you're dead. 

And that's as much ridiculous as it is true, as that's the whole point of Cersei's scene with Tommen. When Tommen comes to his mother asking for help, what the audience learns is that "yeah, we need to be avenging assholes... violence is the correct answer, as anything less is weakness and failure". That's what the Show-Snakes show us too. That's the whole MIND of D&D. THAT'S what they understand with "in the game of thrones, you win or you die". 




 

 



 

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Oh! One more thing that really irritates me:

how did Varys earned his place on Meereen's inner circle of rule? we know how Tyrion got there (even if the whole thing was completely half-assed), but why is Grey Worm and Missandei in the same room sharing state secrets with this pinky eunuch they have never seen before? Because the dwarf they barely know and trust says he's cool?

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4 minutes ago, Saturno said:

THE SEPT: .... The first is his dialogue. He basically says he don't care if Jaime kills him, and this successfully disturbs the Lannister. The High Sparrow is such a zealot that he don't mind dying for what he believes, and this is such a powerful statement that was enough to shake Jaime's wishes of murdering him there. But the second narrative is completely opposite: the Faith militants surrounding Jaime ready to attack. 
I watched this and I was like "wait, what is going on... if he is not afraid of being killed by Jaime,
......  At the end what I understood is that the High Sparrow was BLUFFING about accepting his death. If he really didn't mind he would not need the militants to stop Jaime. 

I think you misread the scene.

Firstly, there is a difference between not to be scared of death and willingly run into death.

Secondly, it was a powerplay. 
Jaime: I could kill you right now.
HS: Yes, you could. But then you'd die as well.
Jaime: Okay, nevermind. I'm not willing to die for that. 

5 minutes ago, Saturno said:

WINTERFELL/BOLTONS: AAH! I don't mind Ramsay anymore. He is such a unbelievable character that I can't feel nothing for him.

The only way to make that story believable again is when the bring Ramsey in a polygamous marriage with the Sand Snakes and they'll live afraid of each other ever after. 

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4 minutes ago, messem said:

I think you misread the scene.

Firstly, there is a difference between not to be scared of death and willingly run into death.

Secondly, it was a powerplay. 
Jaime: I could kill you right now.
HS: Yes, you could. But then you'd die as well.
Jaime: Okay, nevermind. I'm not willing to die for that. 

The only way to make that story believable again is when the bring Ramsey in a polygamous marriage with the Sand Snakes and they'll live afraid of each other ever after. 

I understand it is a powerplay, I just believe it would be much successful and smooth without trying to go with the obvious intimidating factor. Let's make an exercise of imagination: remove the faith soldiers of the equation. The High Sparrow is trying to convince Jaime that while he may very well kill him right there in the Sept, the movement that he started would not stop, and in fact would only be aggravated by the High Sparrow's death. He tells him that the people are furious and demand justice, and see the Crown as the apex of the sins in the earth. That, if he died, the people would put another just like him in his place. Essentially, the High Sparrow would answer Jaime's confrontation with a powerplay, but one much more smart and powerful, basically "we are legion", to make Jaime realize he can't win this situation with brute force.

The Faith Militant was completely unnecessary for that point to be made. In truth, their presence merely points out that the High Sparrow is lying at least about being easily replaceable.

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18 minutes ago, Sir Loin Steak said:

One of the many, many problems I had with those scenes, is that the writer actually went out of their way to re-establish that the dragons are familiar with Missandei and thus less likely to attack her (let's all ignore that Deadpan ran away from them last time they interacted). Having taken the time to do so they then have Tyrion (and cheerleader Varys), who are both total strangers, go alone to release them. :bang:

I really don't know how people are still compelled by Tyrion. Everyone is a fan of him (except Carol, that's why she's still officially an "anti-villain", despite being the most sympathetic character). He's better with Dany's dragons than Dany herself. And everyone accepts a random Westerosi who was in the Queen's service for like 2 weeks and doesn't speak any Meereenese Valyrian as the rightful regent, because it's not like Hizdahr and Barristan were alive and could be involved in Meereenese politics, nope, everyone just defers to Tyrion's authority.

Also: that scene literally opened with a "Varys is a eunuch" joke. This show is so formulaic...

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14 minutes ago, Saturno said:

Oh! One more thing that really irritates me:

how did Varys earned his place on Meereen's inner circle of rule? we know how Tyrion got there (even if the whole thing was completely half-assed), but why is Grey Worm and Missandei in the same room sharing state secrets with this pinky eunuch they have never seen before? Because the dwarf they barely know and trust says he's cool?

IRRC Wasn't it basically Daario who appointed Tyrion ruler of Meereen?

Daario vouched for Tyrion, Tyrion vouched for Varys. Greyworm doesn't care as he's busy getting increasingly weird outfits tailored for him.

The complete lack of any politics going on in Meereen is bizarre. Two episodes ago the city was in open revolt and a bloody coup was attempted, yet St. Tyrion can wander the streets unescorted. The council meetings (if you can even call them that) are casual affairs, where characters with no real authority whatsoever (besides Greyworm's command of the unsullied) express mild concern at the situation. Things are so boring for them that St. Tyrion thinks just randomly releasing the dragons so they can run amok, is somehow a good idea.

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A lot of points have already been touched on so I just want to highlight three that have really annoyed me today.

1: Davos has no consistent characterization. He hasn't even asked Mel about Stannis or Shireen once, yet he's going to comfort her because reasons?

2: Can they actually name Bloodraven? That's annoying.

3: There is nothing compelling about Tyrion whatsoever. Where is the dramatic tension in his arc? At this point, he is such a Mary Sue I am 100% confident things will work to his favor for every scene.

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2 hours ago, Ser Quork said:

(I can’t help but laugh that they’re re-visiting all these arcs from AFFC and ADWD when last season we were told by showpologists it was "cutting the fat".)

 

 

No kidding. They haven't cut any "fat," they just made those parts stupider and, if anything, have dragged them out.

People thought Dorne sucked in the books? Yeah, D&D really fixed that.

People thought Meereen sucked in the books? What are we, in our third season there now (all of which has been far more boring and less compelling than Martin's Meereen storyline) with no end in sight?

I can't wait to see what they do with the Iron Islands.

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12 minutes ago, Zara Zokan said:

I really don't know how people are still compelled by Tyrion. Everyone is a fan of him (except Carol, that's why she's still officially an "anti-villain", despite being the most sympathetic character). He's better with Dany's dragons than Dany herself. And everyone accepts a random Westerosi who was in the Queen's service for like 2 weeks and doesn't speak any Meereenese Valyrian as the rightful regent, because it's not like Hizdahr and Barristan were alive and could be involved in Meereenese politics, nope, everyone just defers to Tyrion's authority.

Also: that scene literally opened with a "Varys is a eunuch" joke. This show is so formulaic...

:agree: 

The continuing eunuch jokes are very similar to how they handle every character who's had a non-heterosexual experience; it's like the writers are contractually required to draw attention to it in the most obnoxious way possible whenever the characters are so much as mentioned.

Show!Varys has been reduced to exactly two characteristics: eunuch and St. Tyrion fanboy. There is nothing else to his character at this point.

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The conversation between Jaime and Tommen drove me crazy.  Jaime is telling Tommen to be a better son to Cersei, asking 'what has she done to you?'  Does Tommen say that she put his wife in jail?  NO!  Did Tommen say that she either would not do anything to get Margaery out, or let him do anything to get her back.  NO. Tommen is an idiot.  But so is Jaime.  He has known his sister all of his life.  It is sheer stupidity for him to formulate an argument based on the premise that Cersei has done nothing wrong. Of course Cersei has done something wrong, it is what she does.  Finally, Jaime and Cersei are parents of the year, loving and guiding their childen?  NO.  The entire convo was not based on any reality that we, readers or viewers know. 

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I'll say again that the direction was good, pacing was decent, and Mel was red for a change, LOL.

I thought Jon's resurrection was really anti-climatic and very by the books, nothing inventive or innovative there.  And the wildlings saving the day was over in the blink of an eye.

Davos still hasn't mentioned like, ern, what happened to Shireen bitch?  He's just totally over Mel betraying Stannis after forcing him to kill his daughter.  NO biggie, Ima follow this Jon Snow dead guy now.

LMAO.  Fucking Ramsay.  Dude, why didn't you poison your father?  Right reasons.  Why didn't you at least kill him without witnesses?  Ah, right reasons again.  Cause he's a mad dog ninja bond villain.  I REALLY hope he doesn't kill Roose in the books.

I don't really get what is supposed to be going on with Tommen.  So, he still totally loves and trusts his mother?  He confined her for her own good he thinks?  He's taken the GOT stupid pills as well. And oh, poor Carol, so depressed.  I feel for her.  Not sure where they are going with this...

And poor Larry, never occurs to him that the faith now being an army, would have guys around?  Why doesn't he have some of his own Lannister guys around?  Right, reasons.

And Theon goes back to Pyke, reasons. again.

I know a lot of people like the guy who plays Euron, but i was  underwhelmed with that delivery.  However, hard to say since the scene was so dark.

Poor Tom, still dressed like a ? I don't even know what? 

The show works scene by scene, that's it.  That's the formula.  Don't think about why is Ramsay killing his father in front of witnesses or why Theon decides to go back to the Iron Islands...go with it......and when you go with it, it's certainly less annoying

Pretty clear to me that they shot this season with it in mind to only do another 10+ eps.  At this rate of killing they will have like a 30 person death count.

ETA..the new children of the forest girl is worse than the first one.

And is this another recast? of the Damphair?  They don't say he's a Greyjoy, but we did see the Damphair in season 2 didn't we?  Oh well, nobody cares

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Sigh. Lawrence Walsh told Jake Gittes at the end of the eponymous movie, "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."

Forget it, folks, it's Game of Thrones. It will never be A Song of Ice and Fire. The world that GRRM built and peopled doesn't exist in the television show (It did in Season 1, but begam to wither in successive seasons as the weeds of "creatively it made sense because we wanted it to happen" spread.). The characters may look and sound like characters we know from the books, but they're not. They're replicants. Their programming is what the show runners and Cogman and Intern Dave want to to be, not what would come organically through careful characterization and actual motivation. 

Instead, they just write what sounds good to them in their echo chamber, and meticulously ignore the books on points small and large.

Balon threatens Yarasha with replacing her as heir by fathering a new heir? Why? Does that "improve" the story? 

Changing the Seastone Chair to the "Salt Throne"? What is the point of that? Does that "improve" the story?

 

 

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Biggest criticism of this episode is the Bolton thing by a country mile. What in the actual fuck?

We've been frequently reminded Walda is pregnant, we've seen the sideways glances Roose and Ramsay shoot one another over its implications. You wonder hmmm how is this going to play out??? Ramsay is going to have to thread carefully here... STAB!! Just stab. See kids, if there's a delicate problem that needs addressing just kill it! Nobody will even care, honest. Amazing writing right there. And then for added shock! value we can feed Walda and newborn to the dogs omg!! this is so shocking!! Viewers, aren't you so shocked right now??

It's a good thing only 3 people seem to know Walda had a child, as killing Walder's grand daughter and great grandson might remove Ramsay from his christmas card list. It's also good that nobody in Westeros seems to give a shit about kinslaying anymore.

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I might have heard this wrong, but did Jaime imply he doesn't know who killed Myrcella?? I guess that explains why the ship didn't just turn around after she died (considering they were only 100 yards out to sea) but apparently everyone on that boat is much much stupider than I thought

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2 minutes ago, Gaius Gracchus said:

I might have heard this wrong, but did Jaime imply he doesn't know who killed Myrcella?? I guess that explains why the ship didn't just turn around after she died (considering they were only 100 yards out to sea) but apparently everyone on that boat is much much stupider than I thought

I missed that.  How could he not figure that out?  LMAO.  She is seen off by a bunch of fucktard women out of some comic strip who already tried to kill her, she gets a weirdo long kiss from Ellaria and 15 minutes later she dies by poison.  Even Hodor could figure that one out.

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1 minute ago, TepidHands said:

It will never be A Song of Ice and Fire.

Yes, but could it be half-decent? I'm really trying not to hold my expectations to high, but it still manages to disappoint me.

Ramsay is just as bad as Sand Snakes. Here, I said it.

I just loved Mellie waking Jon up by washing his hair.

And Tyrion, so cool even the dragons want to be his friends. And the first line of his scene....a cock joke!

Aaaaand... is High Sparrow supposed to be a humble, religious figure? Because I caught myself of thinking that I miss Joffrey and what he would to to that obnoxious, fanatical prick.

And lol, how seriously Ser UnGregor is treating his vow to get rid of ALL of Cersei's enemies... but if he goes after every plankton like this, he has a long way to go.

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5 hours ago, Gustavo Fringed Sleeves said:

Then why drop by?

Anyway, I'm going to make the same observations about the Greyjoy characters I made in the General thread.

Theon: a lot has been said about his sudden escape from shellshock. But going so far as to being capable of riding with one single horse from the outskirts of Winterhell to whatever port of his choice (any of which must have good reason to not want anything to do with an ironborn) and then sail to Pyke? With what coin? What, are you going to be a stealing eunuch, like Varys?

Balon was mad and his war doomed, true enough, but callous enough to be unconcerned about fighting to the last ironborn? When he died in the books, the WOT5K was still raging and he was in a position good enough not to push him to surrender yet. But here? He already bent the knee once, you know.

Lesbyara: not too bad, though as someone noticed upthread, what do D&D think they're doing with the pinecone remark? Throwing us a bone? Also, sister, we know you're not throwing shit to the sharks. The culprit has just been introduced, which brings us to...

Euron: sure dude, your brother looks old. Did Quellon have a lifespan around Walder Frey's order, so Balon was born to his first wife and you to his seventh? And sure, Euron is a bit over the top in the books, but having him say ALL his badass lines in just his first scene alone (to Balon alone out in the storm, no less, instead of in a political rally of sorts, where it kind of makes sense), is a good way for the show-only viewers not to get hyped, but to smell another "Dornish cheesefest" coming. Oh, and despite all the exposition dialogue, they forgot to even name him. And to finish, Euron vs Balon and Ramsay vs Roose makes TWO fucking kinslayings in one fucking episode, to add to the Dornish ones. What is realism good for, when you want to SHOCK?

Aeron: again, not named, but again, not exactly bad. It remains to be seen whether he's going to be given, you know, a personality. Or even a dialogue with Euron; you never know with GoT.

And last but not least, I'm not going to forgive my favorite Greyjoy's omission. Sure, since not!Asha can't have her storyline with Stannis anymore, let's use her for a plot specifically designed to be fulfilled by a man. Can't go wrong there, no, we'll make her be into girls! Among other things.

 

I think you nailed it, the problem with this show has always been time.  You can't fit this entire story into 10 hour long episodes a season.  And furthermore, now that D&D or whomever writes, has to actually write instead of rewrite what George wrote, you'll find them severely lacking.

 

Everything feels rushed and it doesn't feel like there is any depth to anything. 

its all about shock value rather than good storytelling.  

Where is Stannis' wife?  

Has Davos just decided to say eh....you got my king killed, you burned my best friend Shireen at the stake, I saw you give birth to a demon baby, tried to poison and stab you, but you know what I think you can bring Jon back from the dead so why don't you get on that.  

He didn't even give a reason as to why he wanted this done.  

Ramsay Bolton, stabs Roose, just like eh, fuggit, you're done.   He also mentions the Manderlays, who have been cut.  Why even mention them.  

 

Everything just seems really jumbled and just not well thought out and trying to pack all this shit into an hour.  

Why wait for season 6 to have the Kingsmoot?  

 

I dont know.  It was nice to Jon come back but the rest of the episode was a mess, as was episode 1.  

And did you see the previews for next week?  Tower of Joy scene and that's supposed to be Ned Stark?

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12 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

 

Where is Stannis' wife?  

She hung herself last season. 

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