[Spoilers] Rant and Rave without Reprecussions - Season 6 Edition

[Gabriele]

9 minutes ago, The_half_fan said:

If we're open to rifts in fabric of time and space, then we must be open to parallel universes. The Others could secretly be a disguised Dalek army. 

Can we have Dr. Who just ereasing seasons 4-6 then? 

[OldGimletEye]

53 minutes ago, LadySoftheart said:

I just think Jon or Sansa not authorizing killing Stannis is the least of the problems with Brienne killing Stannis. The real problem is that she killed Stannis for vengeance (and sure, she framed it for herself as "justice for Renly" but that's just more stupid show talk about vengeance being the highest good) when she should have been trying to help Sansa, and by killing Stannis, she killed someone who was the enemy of Sansa's enemies, the Boltons. Now on the show, they had Stannis burn his own daughter, a lovable little girl, so we are clearly meant to

For me, the idea that Brienne usurped Sansa's or Jon's prerogatives is just a big red herring - there are SO many problems with this storyline that don't rely on the tenuous argument that Sansa and Jon are authorized to be the arbiters of justice in the North. Sansa was a Stark, but if we want to take a legalistic approach, Sansa is a Bolton, and the Boltons are the rulers of the North appointed by the Iron Throne, so THEY are the ones who get to deal out justice and they would presumably have absolutely no problem with Brienne killing Stannis who was just defeated BY the Boltons. If, on the other hand, you want to argue that the Boltons aren't the "real" rulers of the North, that Robb made it an independent kingdom, then Sansa is still not "Queen in the North" who deals out justice, because Bran and then Rickon are the rightful heirs (by law) of Robb, since the whole Jon-in-Robb's-will didn't happen on the show. And Jon really has no say at all; he's not a Stark, he's a Snow, and he's not the ruler of the North, he's Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, so the only place where Jon has a say in justice is at the Wall. (I mean, I get what you're saying, but I just can't get hung up on the legalistic things about "Brienne had no right to administer justice" when we have all these arguments about Arya's killing of Daeron in the books being justice because she's a Stark. In Braavos, where she has no authority whatsoever, and Westerosi laws about the NW have no meaning.) 

Re: the bolded above: Neither in book nor in show did Brienne swear some general oath to the Starks. She swore an oath to Lady Catelyn, and she makes a point of saying that both on the show and in the books, that she doesn't serve the Starks, but one particular person. She's like Catelyn's (and now Sansa's) bloodrider, not a Stark banner(wo)man, at all.

In short: I hate that Brienne killed Stannis for vengeance, because I think that mischaracterizes Brienne horribly, but I'm just not hung up on the idea that somehow usurping Sansa's or Jon's nonexistent authority is the real problem with that action. I think the storyline is terrible, because three or four characters had to be twisted into pretzels to make it happen, but the idea that Brienne should've checked in with Jon or Sansa isn't what makes it terrible for me.  

Brienne travels up North and then executes Stannis under the guise of "justice".
But, why in the heck, would Brienne think she is empowered to carry out justice in a land that never swore to Renly. Why would she think anyone would recognize Renly's legitimacy there?
Just where does Brienne think she has the right to carry out justice?
If Brienne wants to think the Boltons are the legimate rulers, then fine. If Brienne wants to believe the Starks are the legimitate rulers, fine too. Either way, she hasn't been given any authority to carry out exectutions in the North by either the Boltons or the Starks.

It's was hugely arrogant of Brienne to think she could administer justice in the North. Somebody claiming a power they ought to know they don't have is arrogant. There is more here than arguing about legal formalities.

Now if Brienne intends to swear her services to a Stark, then that would seem to imply that Brienne should have conlcuded that the Starks were the ultimate authority where justice is concerened. Otherwise it would be absurd for Brienne to swear fealty to Sansa, but still believe the Boltons were the ultimate authority where justice was concerned. Surely Brienne should have known that her would be liege lady would be inclined to think that her family was the authority on these matters, be it Rickon,  or Bran or somebody acting on their behalf.
Sansa maybe a Bolton now, but surely Brienne must know or should have known that Sansa is much closer to having the authority to judge or execute Stannis than she, Brienne, an outsider to the North ever had. And surely, Brienne should have figured out that if legitimacy is a function of "what men believe", then more likely the people of the North would believe Sansa to be their rightful ruler than Brienne. Sansa's claim to being the rightful ruler of the North might not be perfect at this point, but she has a lot more authority to execute justice than Brienne ever had.Sansa's problematic claim doesn't somehow "perfect" Brienne's claim to do justice.

ETA:
And why would Brienne think her would be liege lady wouldn't have a problem with her presuming to execute a man that was at least fighting the Boltons?
And why would Brienne think the Starks would be overly concerned with the fact that Renly was killed by Stannis?

Also, I understand what you are saying too. But, Brienne comes of here as an ignorant, self-righteous and arrogant jackass. I have a problem with that. One of the reasons being is that isn't her book character.

[ArabellaVidal]

1 hour ago, OldGimletEye said:

They may very well be doing that. 

But, it's not really realistic for Jon to take an interest in Arya, like say 2 weeks later. A delayed reaction of sorts.
That's something that Jon would want to know immediately.

What should really logically (what's that?! a theme?) happen is that Jon would ask Sansa about Arya, because as far as he knows she would know something.

[The_half_fan]

1 hour ago, LadySoftheart said:

I just finished rereading A Game of Thrones and I was struck by how much book dialogue they used in the show that season - there was very little alteration or cutting, even if they did have give people dialogue that wasn't theirs (Littlefinger telling about the Hound, the most egregious example but also Robb getting the "only time a man can be brave is when he's afraid" thing when Ned said that Bran!!) And their interpolated scenes in that season were (mostly) good with a couple of caveats (the infamous "play with her ass" and also I find Jaime bragging to Ned about stabbing Aerys TOTALLY out of character!), because they fit in with how the characters talked and didn't seem glaringly out of place. I think things started to go pear-shaped in season 2, with "WHERE ARE MY DRAGONS?" and especially Talisa, and that's when the over-reliance on the 9th episode battle thing began too. It worked with Blackwater, because ACoK is largely leadup to that and GRRM wrote a brilliant episode, but ... then they kept doing it with every season and it's getting less and less easy to adjust the pacing (and they end up having to invent battles like Hardhome.)

 

With all the budget they had, they could have hired a team of writers to help them out. Instead the money went on dire wolf CGI.

[Le Cygne]

And of course, LF already told her in season 3 that Arya was alive. But she then forgot this in season 5 according to D&D, because they said on the outside the episode that she thought she was alone until she heard about Bran and Rickon being alive. (Which was after the episode where she found out Jon was alive).

[kissdbyfire]

3 minutes ago, The_half_fan said:

With all the budget they had, they could have hired a team of writers to help them out. Instead the money went on dire wolf Castle Stokeworth CGI.

FTFY, since we haven't really seen much of the direwolves at all. 

[Le Cygne]

19 minutes ago, Gabriele said:

Can we have Dr. Who just ereasing seasons 4-6 then? 

If this is anything like Bobby in the shower on Dallas, I'm all for it.

[ArabellaVidal]

Just now, Le Cygne said:

And of course, LF already told her in season 3 that Arya was alive. But she then forgot this in season 5 according to D&D, because they said on the outside the episode that she thought she was alone until she heard about Bran and Rickon being alive. (Which was after the episode where she found out Jon was alive).

She's way too busy getting Empowered to keep track of details. She needs a secretary.

[Cas Stark]

Ah, yes, Castle Stokeworth.  Another expensive scene that the "reasons" why it was in the show would become clear...

Still waiting.

Still looks like Lollys was one-off, and that scene was utter filler.  Is the actress in this year, I thought at one time she was going to be in one episode but can't remember.

[The Fattest Leech]

9 minutes ago, The_half_fan said:

With all the budget they had, they could have hired a team of writers to help them out. Instead the money went on dire wolf CGI.

I still find it funny that it takes four of them to write dialogue that has already been written for them by just one old guy

The new ToJ is the Tower of ASOIAF and it's four against one... and the one will win.

[The Fattest Leech]

8 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

If this is anything like Bobby in the shower on Dallas, I'm all for it.

ahahaha- so true

https://youtu.be/ZvTWUG1k4KY

[The_half_fan]

43 minutes ago, Gabriele said:

Can we have Dr. Who just ereasing seasons 4-6 then? 

Yeah! And bring in Karen Gillen as the dark Sansa because she has red hair and a feisty character who won't get pushed around.

[Meera of Tarth]

40 minutes ago, The_half_fan said:

With all the budget they had, they could have hired a team of writers to help them out. Instead the money went on dire wolf CGI.

It wouldn't be efficient. They would have to explain them the subtleties of the plot and characterisation of the best-written characters that have ever appeared on TV. They invented the SuperFour League. It's not easy to improve that.

[Gabriele]

14 minutes ago, The_half_fan said:

Yeah! And bring in Karen Gillen as the dark Sansa because she has red hair and a feisty character who won't get pushed around.

And while they're at it, they could recast Dany, too. I'm so tired of her "I have a lot of titles and I keep telling you with an inflectionless voice because I'm really a Dalek ...."

 

[ForTheNorth]

Andrew Luck, NFL QB, Stanford grad is called a fool for not wanting to watch the show.

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/andrew-luck-is-nerd-books-game-of-thrones-colts-quarterback/1q6uxm3ni6d6o1o6nllqh06zgk

[The Fattest Leech]

10 minutes ago, ForTheNorth said:

Andrew Luck, NFL QB, Stanford grad is called a fool for not wanting to watch the show.

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/andrew-luck-is-nerd-books-game-of-thrones-colts-quarterback/1q6uxm3ni6d6o1o6nllqh06zgk

WOW! The blatant snark in that article sounds like something I have heard before from somewhere

"I know, the fool that I am," Luck said about waiting for the books.

Yes, you are a fool, Andrew. You're missing out on quality programming for a book that may take several more years to make. Luck even admitted the few episodes he watched were "fantastic" so what's the harm in watching the show? You can enjoy it and the books (whenever they're published).

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/andrew-luck-is-nerd-books-game-of-thrones-colts-quarterback/1q6uxm3ni6d6o1o6nllqh06zgk

[Le Cygne]

Sounds like the Stanford grad is just being polite about the show, too.

[kissdbyfire]

14 minutes ago, ForTheNorth said:

Andrew Luck, NFL QB, Stanford grad is called a fool for not wanting to watch the show.

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/andrew-luck-is-nerd-books-game-of-thrones-colts-quarterback/1q6uxm3ni6d6o1o6nllqh06zgk

UGH that headline:

Andrew Luck has a dumb reason for not watching 'Game of Thrones'

[OldGimletEye]

2 hours ago, ArabellaVidal said:

What should really logically (what's that?! a theme?) happen is that Jon would ask Sansa about Arya, because as far as he knows she would know something.

Yeah that's seems pretty logical.
I think the problem here, or at least this is my impression, is that D & D want to "back load" everything. In other words they want to hold back all the big stuff until the end of the season. But doing that just makes things not very logical.
You'd expect that to be one of the first things Jon would ask Sansa. But, that seemingly brings in a whole bunch of complications D & D just don't want to deal with or want to put off to later and it just makes things really strange.

[sweetsunray]

54 minutes ago, Gabriele said:

And while they're at it, they could recast Dany, too. I'm so tired of her "I have a lot of titles and I keep telling you with an inflectionless voice because I'm really a Dalek ...."

 

That has basically been Emilia's text for the two episodes she was in - reciting her titles. Other than that she got to shoot some rape talking Dothraki's dead with her eyes unsuccesfully.