[Spoilers] Rant and Rave without Reprecussions - Season 6 Edition

[Liver and Onions]

It seems to me that the show's paltry attempts at Women On Top are exactly what many (incorrectly) believe feminism to be; women despising men and taking all their stuff. In some cases (ie. Dorne), it's literal murder. In the books, there is an undercurrent of feminism without feeling like an anachronism. Arya questions why she can't do certain things. "The woman is important, too." Little Cersei wonders why she can't do the things Little Jaime can, even though they're identical in every way but one. Dany wants to protect other women. Brienne makes her way in a society that seems to have no place for her. Asha shows power, courage, leadership, and compassion. Only Cersei seems to buy into the idea of trying to have power over "weak men" and other women. 

Meanwhile... I am really disgusted by Sandra. She's become the kind of character I despise in other stories. It's sad, because on the way to turning into this traitorous and horrible person she had to be shoved into a rape plot. Perhaps I should feel sorry for her. Certainly I do on a metafictional sense, because her character is so poorly written. So, there we go. Disgust and pity. 

 

[Tijgy]

1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

TOJ II, followed by Jon learning it somehow, because they will never trust the audience to get it by the TOJ reveal, and since they killed off Max, Inception Bran has no one to talk to so they can't monologue it sufficiently.

bran can always talk about it with ben

[Prince of the North]

1 hour ago, Sir Loin Steak said:

[Snipped a lot of absolutely great stuff for length!]

*slow clap*  Bravo, Sir!  Truly!  Bravo!  I was aware of this, of course, but you've laid the total inanity of LF's show story line out so nicely here!

22 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

LOL !

So LF knows about R + L = J, but not about Ramsay? Makes sense creatively, I suppose.

If LF ever had even the slightest hint of R + L = J, then he should have been blackmailing Ned long back with the info.

Exactly!  This completely logical point has been made before but I'm glad you're making it again.

[kissdbyfire]

32 minutes ago, Little Scribe of Naath said:

LOL !

So LF knows about R + L = J, but not about Ramsay? Makes sense creatively, I suppose.

If LF ever had even the slightest hint of R + L = J, then he should have been blackmailing Ned long back with the info.

He knows. If you don't want to take my word for it, watch his face when Sandra says Rhaegar 'kidnapped and raped' Lyanna:

http://kissdbyfire.tumblr.com/post/126181149846/yes-littlefinger-knows-the-truth-god-knows-how

[Landru]

Quote

Sophie Turner Thinks Sansa Finally Has the Upper Hand

Actor Sophie Turner reveals her thoughts on Sansa’s determination against the odds, revenge and the struggle against the patriarchy.

HBO: What prevents Jon from seeing Sansa as a strong leader and valid voice in the battle planning?

Sophie Turner: Jon, especially in the beginning, underestimates Sansa, but as time goes by he sees her proving her competency. I think the social boundaries of the time period that Thrones is loosely based on means that these men still view women as less capable of battle planning or anything to do with typical seemingly “male” activities. Patriarchy, even in this fictional world, is very real.

12 hours ago, williamwire said:

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/sophie-turner-thinks-sansa-finally-has-the-upper-hand

So the reason Sansa setup Jon and Rickon to die was to fight the patriarchy.  Makes sense actually.  Forcing a battle that would probably lead to Jon's death and knowing Rickon would die would make her the heir to Winterfell.  Take that patriarchy!  Unfortunately her plans to get Jon killed were foiled because of Jon's plot armor.  It looks like all the women in the GOT universe are fighting the patriarchy too.  The Sand Snakes killed their own prince and only male heir, because they were fighting the patriarchy.  Its so obvious now. Dany and Yara are planning a girls-only alliance, and a little bit of something something for bedtime. I can picture it now, Dany, Yara, Cersei, Bad Pussy, and Sansa conquering Westeros and yelling "you go girl" as they all figuratively kick the patriarchy in the balls, and then they make sweet non-patriarchal love to each other.  Who needs weak men, right?

Wow, Turner is just as self-absorbed as Sandra. The reverse could be asked as well, what prevents Sandra from seeing Jon as a strong leader? When she tells Jon that he doesn't know Ramsey and his response is that he's fought worse, she never actually bothers to find out that he defeated 100k Wildlings with 500 men or that he fought an army of the dead led buy a guy we build a 700 foot tall, 300 mile long wall to stop. Although, in defense of Turner, the show does make out Ramsey to be more formidable than the Night's King and Jon, despite his previous leadership experience and having watched countless people he cared deeply about die in front of him, cannot keep himself composed during a battle.

What is even more amazing is that Turner blames patriarchy for Jon believing that Sandra is less capable of battle planning, when in fact Sandra's own dialogue flatly states that she knows nothing about strategy or tactics.

[plastic throne]

2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

http://kissdbyfire.tumblr.com/post/126181149846/yes-littlefinger-knows-the-truth-god-knows-how

LOL, kissdbyfire, I never noticed this, you're probably spot on. Look at that smirk! Oh my...

[kissdbyfire]

12 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

TOJ II, followed by Jon learning it somehow, because they will never trust the audience to get it by the TOJ reveal, and since they killed off Max, Inception Bran has no one to talk to so they can't monologue it sufficiently.

At some point before ToJ II THE MISSION and LF telling the whole story to Emo and Sandra, there'll be something with Khaleesi lamenting the fact that she has no family left or some such bs.

[SerMixalot]

5 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

No doubt. But the worse for me is the fact that Emo Pup & Sandra haven't once talked about Bran, and both know he is alive, and not about Arya at all. It's a joke, it's a pathetic attempt at  a "surprising reveal" down the line. Please, Arya is the most important person to Jon; he would never ever in a gazillion years not ask about her.

 

SNIP

That is what gets me pulling my hair out on a regular basis.  Characters don't act like human beings, thus allowing for a plot to develop.  Plot should follow characters, not characters following plot.  That is simply bad writing.

The problem is that the writers simply aren't good enough to develop drama from the logical flow of how characters should react in a situation. 

Sansa SHOULD have interrogated Brienne about ALL she knew about Arya AND the Hound.

Sansa and Jon SHOULD have discussed at length Bran, Arya, Rickon, what Sansa has been up to since she left Wintefell all those years ago, Jon resurrecting. 

These NORMAL human interactions would preclude the plot from developing as the writers want so they don't have them talking about these things.  NOT talking about these things is simply incomprehensible.  People simply don't work that way.  A good writer would and could develop drama as a result of this knowledge being shared. Stuff that is consistent a. with everyone having the information they should have and b. acting consistently in character to that information.  Good writers can develop ideas off of this that create conflict.  Bad writers short circuit this to have characters act inconceivably. 

[Cas Stark]

Just now, kissdbyfire said:

At some point before ToJ II THE MISSION and LF telling the whole story to Emo and Sandra, there'll be something with Khaleesi lamenting the fact that she has no family left or some such bs.

Yes, or she and Tyrion can have a convo about her family and he can make some telling remark about Rhaegar and Lyanna....

I can't even believe people are defending the idea of Sandra Bolton having a vast army at her disposal and it's okay that she berates her brother for the lack of men and tells him nothing, at all, ever, while he proceeds to get all their supporters killed including her brother [and Jon of course should be dead too, why shoot the giant when you can as easily shoot your actual enemy standing next to him]....because patriarchy.....and because reasons.

[sweetsunray]

Imo the whole ham-fisted plot for Sansa since S5 has basically completely destroyed every narrative fabric, realism and logic in the show.

Sansa's antagonist is not Ramsay (Joffrey already pretty much served that role, without the rape), not Cersei, but LF. "Only Batffinger". By placing her North and giving her an antagonist that is worse than Joffrey and LF even (at least physically worse), away from LF's power base, everything become sunhinged - timelines, how quickly one can from here to there, forget about logic, and of course the worst of all is characterization of LF (stupid), Jon (stupid), Ramsay (over the top), Brienne (candle), Rickon (dead prop with no lines), Roose (stupid), Stannis (stupid), Davos (stupid), Cersei (stupid), Royce (stupid). And it's just getting worse and worse.

I agree with whomever said poor Sandor. Is what I have been thinking since Monday - Sandor's too good for Sandra. And I hope she dies quickly, so that everybody else can get their story. 

[Sir Loin Steak]

21 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Unless Howland Reed show up with Brad Manderly, it has to be Littlefinger....I guess as an outlier it could be Mel? But she's been sidelined since we found out she was old and not really sexy, LOL, so my guess is Davos kills her...11 episodes too late.

I'd be shocked if Davos didn't kill Mel next episode. This show is amazingly unsubtle with it's foreshadowing.

14 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

There will be someting happening in KL or Mereen first. Then totally out of the blue we end up in a room with a woman dying only then to realize there's a Young Ned with her. Bran reaching the Wall. Cut to Jon on LF's lap and tell him something about his daddy and mommy. Heck, it'll probably happen while Jon's mourning Rickon in the crypts.

Dead on, that's exactly how they edit. However R=L+J is revealed, I fully expect it to come as a complete non-sequitur, placed randomly somewhere in the middle of the episode.

[Tijgy]

1 minute ago, Sir Loin Steak said:

Dead on, that's exactly how they edit. However R=L+J is revealed, I fully expect it to come as a complete non-sequitur, placed randomly somewhere in the middle of the episode.

Or maybe end scene of the season. MYSTERY RESOLVED. They like those things.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

5 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

At some point before ToJ II THE MISSION and LF telling the whole story to Emo and Sandra, there'll be something with Khaleesi lamenting the fact that she has no family left or some such bs.

You've hit the nail on the head.  Dany lamenting her lone status in the world should preclude and provide a lead in for the D;s desecration of R+L.  I'm actually shivering with disgust at the idea of Creepfinger trying to put Jon on his lap.  The hodgepodge of characters, written and visual, that make up The Finger really does give me the heebee jeebies.  

(My laptop is doing the overheating thing.  Sorry, can't answer all posts from everyone.  Ahhhhhhhhhh, it drives me crazy)

[kissdbyfire]

17 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

That is what gets me pulling my hair out on a regular basis.  Characters don't act like human beings, thus allowing for a plot to develop.  Plot should follow characters, not characters following plot.  That is simply bad writing.

The problem is that the writers simply aren't good enough to develop drama from the logical flow of how characters should react in a situation. 

Sansa SHOULD have interrogated Brienne about ALL she knew about Arya AND the Hound.

Sansa and Jon SHOULD have discussed at length Bran, Arya, Rickon, what Sansa has been up to since she left Wintefell all those years ago, Jon resurrecting. 

These NORMAL human interactions would preclude the plot from developing as the writers want so they don't have them talking about these things.  NOT talking about these things is simply incomprehensible.  People simply don't work that way.  A good writer would and could develop drama as a result of this knowledge being shared. Stuff that is consistent a. with everyone having the information they should have and b. acting consistently in character to that information.  Good writers can develop ideas off of this that create conflict.  Bad writers short circuit this to have characters act inconceivably. 

Exactly. They are completely incapable of connecting the dots organically, nothing flows. You're constantly being pulled from the story, 'wait, what? But how/why/when?' 

All the things that are simply forgotten until they drag it (whatever it is) back in, always too late. Davos not asking Mel about Shireen and Stannis immediately upon meeting her in 510; Sandra and Brienne not talking about Arya and Sandor, and Brienne omitting the fact that 'the man' Arya was with was Sandor; Jon and Sansa not talking about Bran and Arya, and neither talking about the fact that Jon had just been resurrected! It's nothing, nothing is nothing. It's a pretty spectacle with ZERO substance, and that's why there's no suspense, no tension whatsoever. That's why everything is boring, predictable, and underwhelming, even the action.

ETA: and as far as I can tell, Larry and Carol haven't talked about Lancel or the WoS either!

[SerMixalot]

13 minutes ago, Sir Loin Steak said:

I'd be shocked if Davos didn't kill Mel next episode. This show is amazingly unsubtle with it's foreshadowing.

Dead on, that's exactly how they edit. However R=L+J is revealed, I fully expect it to come as a complete non-sequitur, placed randomly somewhere in the middle of the episode.

I think it more likely Davos is killed, he seems to be redundant at this point

[Tijgy]

So the rumor is Walder Frey is going to be killed by a poisoned pie, right? So will Arya kill first another Frey or will it just be pork pie? 

[sweetsunray]

15 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Exactly. They are completely incapable of connecting the dots organically, nothing flows. You're constantly being pulled from the story, 'wait, what? But how/why/when?' 

All the things that are simply forgotten until they drag it (whatever it is) back in, always too late. Davos not asking Mel about Shireen and Stannis immediately upon meeting her in 510; Sandra and Brienne not talking about Arya and Sandor, and Brienne omitting the fact that 'the man' Arya was with was Sandor; Jon and Sansa not talking about Bran and Arya, and neither talking about the fact that Jon had just been resurrected! It's nothing, nothing is nothing. It's a pretty spectacle with ZERO substance, and that's why there's no suspense, no tension whatsoever. That's why everything is boring, predictable, and underwhelming, even the action.

And they can't write a mystery if their life depended on it on their own.

The books are written full of mystery regarding the plot. Theon seemingly having murdered Rickon and Bran, reveal: they're alive. Nothing ex-machina... just hiding what actually happened in plain sight if you know to look for the little details. Same for the Ramsay-Reek reveal. Or Bloody Mummers having swiched for Boltons in HH and thus the Glovers et all always having been fake-prisoners and a killing spree was planned without Arya knowing it. And of course the Red Wedding is the biggest mystery event. You know something's going on, but not what until it actually happens.

d$d dropped the Ramsay-Reek and HH mystery. They had an IB take Ramsay's place and the IB betraying Theon. They had oen super-assassin kill everyone in HH off screen without explanation. So, they made a mystery out of it without every actually giving us a behind the screen look. But they kept the Rick-Bran and RW mystery.

Since then (and LF's reveal of "only your sister"), they have played everything, but truly everything straight. They can't do mystery at all on their own, so they started to write bamboozle instead. So, people are getting truly confused, and based on first 3 season mysteries think it's on purpose - some mystery that will be revealed - but nope... it's either predictable or it's WTF x is really that stupid.

[Prince of the North]

19 minutes ago, Sir Loin Steak said:

I'd be shocked if Davos didn't kill Mel next episode. This show is amazingly unsubtle with it's foreshadowing.

Dead on, that's exactly how they edit. However R=L+J is revealed, I fully expect it to come as a complete non-sequitur, placed randomly somewhere in the middle of the episode.

Yep.  That look from Davos toward Mel was their idea of foreshadowing.  And the thing about however they reveal R+L=J, it won't matter!  It won't have any narrative "heft" - it'll just be another, ultimately meaningless, plot point checked off as they rush to just get it over with

4 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

I think it more likely Davos is killed, he seems to be redundant at this point

Maybe...but that's also a great justification for the show keeping him around longer

[SerMixalot]

Something is stuck in my head.

Last KL knew LF was sent to the Vale to get Lysa back into the King's camp

LF goes to WF after killing Lysa, apparently telling the Lords of the Vale he was going to his own home

KL must have heard of Lysa's death-ok, but they would have no reason to not think LF was still there.

Shortly after arriving in WF, LF receives the message from KL recalling him.  That message could have come by Raven or messenger either directly from KL or forwarded from the Vale.

KL had no knowledge of LF being in WF and if they did that would make LF a traitor for delivering the King Slaying Sansa there.

The Vale wouldn't have know LF was in WF as it has been established LF said he was going to his own home.  They wouldn't even have known Sansa was in WF at this point, since she had just arrived.  And again it is established in show that Sansa was kidnapped and he never went to WF.

UGH I know, I know all this has been covered before.

 

Game of Thrones should be called Plot without Repercussions

[The Wull]

7 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

I think it more likely Davos is killed, he seems to be redundant at this point

Especially since his advisor role is redundant now that LF is on the scene.  I'm having trouble remembering, did they show both Davos' and Cressen's attempts on Melisandre in the show?