[Spoilers] Rant and Rave without Reprecussions - Season 6 Edition

[Le Cygne]

That was always the rumor, we don't hear what Lyanna says, then they cut to Jon. Then someone came up with what sounded like a fake one, I know someone who knows someone... but the show had LF tell Lyanna's story, and the sad thing is, it's difficult to rule out anything with this show. I guess LF's smirk when Fansa said Rhaegar raped Lyanna could have been that LF was pimping Fansa out to be raped... Never made any sense as a parallel though, because Lyanna and Rhaegar is consensual, or I'll eat my hat.

[Tijgy]

35 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

I've been wondering why Poor Larry The Lunkhead was trapped at what looked like a dinner party with Walder Frey in the preview.............there's going to be pie, too?  With or without a Manderly?  I'm glad I haven't been in the know on all these spoilers and such, I'd hate to have had weeks or months to give this thought.  And, we're putting the pies on Arya?  If so, I'd say Batfinger's teleporter must have received an engine upgrade.  Either that, or Batfinger managed to get ahold of Doc's Mr. Fusion.  LOL  

I'm glad it's only one more episode of this nonsense.  I need a break, LOL 

Some rumors said. And I am not really fan of it, because

1° No matter how cool at first sight those Frey pies, it is still a very dark act. It is murdering some people, turning them into pie and feeding them to their family (and Manderley even enjoys it). I understand why Manderly does this. BUT ... it is still something I consider very dark I do not want to see Arya doing this. 

2° No real Frey pies ... means it losing completely the point of them. Manderly use them because of the Rat Cook Story. What is the point of a pie when it is not a real Frey Pie? It would not longer resemble the divine punishment in the story. But then they would do something similar as your sister, olly, bring me my sword, ... . 

3° They have to mention the Rat Cook Story. How will they do that in a SOUTHERN HALL? It is not really that weird a drunken suicidial Manderly yells sing Rat Cook, Rat Cook during a feast at WF. 

(And the greater insult would of course be if Manderly turns up next episode without ever fought for the Starks. They will truly mock the book readers then because Manderly is in fact a very popular character, the Davos & Glover & Manderly Scene is very popular & the Freys Pies are also something the fans liked.)

26 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Yeah, I love the fact that Turner wants to talk about Jon's problematic behavior here, but avoids Sandra's problematic behavior.

Sandra is a Boss Ass Individual, while Jon is just some kind of sexist loser. They might as well have had Jon wearing a wife beater and yelling, "Hey Sandra, get me a beer out of the refrigerator and make me a sandwich, I'm busy watching a ball game right now!"

I also love the fact that evidently Jon is now that guy: The Randyll Tarly of the North. Book Jon is hardly some super misogynistic asshole. I mean this is the guy who pretty much lets his girlfriend, Ygritte, tell him he is pretty much a dumb ass, who knows jack squat, and accepts it.
Yet now, evidently according to Turner Jon is the Randyll Tarly of the North. Why? I guess, hey, that is what the plot demands.

Haha, I just remembered the Arya and Jon relationship. Jon was the one who gave her Needle. Jon was the one who really made Arya feel comfortable in the fact she wasnt really into "girl things". 

But then Arya also said Ned did not want her fighting with a sword ... have you Syrio forgotten? 

[Tijgy]

This was very interesting by the way: http://www.fandomfollowing.com/sansa-stark-cinderella-abuse-empowerment/. 

Quote

Sansa has started down the dark road that could turn her into Cersei Lannister. Yet she chooses to hold on to hope that things might become better. Neither Joffrey’s physical violence nor Cersei’s cruel words can make Sansa violate her principles. Though she may allow herself uncharitable thoughts, she never seeks to hurt anyone, and she even tries to help people whenever she can, saving the life of a drunken knight that she did not know and risking the wrath of Joffrey because it was the right thing to do, or helping an injured Lancel Lannister—an enemy. It is beautiful and poetic that in a world so cold and violent a young girl can hold on to hope that things might get better.

(...)

Which makes Sunday’s episode of Game of Thrones just so wrong. After enduring King’s Landing, being sold to the men who murdered her family, and her rape at the hands of Ramsay Bolton, Sansa Stark has been broken. She callously dismisses her last true-born brother, Rickon, and refuses to think that he might be saved. Her gaze stops Jon Snow from beating Ramsay to death, but then she brutally murders Ramsay with his own dogs, smiling as he is devoured alive by the ravenous beasts.

Finally, Cersei Lannister’s triumph is complete, and Sansa has become what she hates. She is as distrustful as the Lannister queen and as brutal as Ramsay. She has become everything that her father stood against, and certainly everything Martin wrote her not to be. The House of Stark is now a complete ruin.

 

[Le Cygne]

@Tijgy maybe Arya poisons the pies. They had her messing with poison a lot.

[Landru]

12 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Yeah, I love the fact that Turner wants to talk about Jon's problematic behavior here, but avoids Sandra's problematic behavior.

Sandra is a Boss Ass Individual, while Jon is just some kind of sexist loser. They might as well have had Jon wearing a wife beater and yelling, "Hey Sandra, get me a beer out of the refrigerator and make me a sandwich, I'm busy watching a ball game right now!"

I also love the fact that evidently Jon is now that guy: The Randyll Tarly of the North. Book Jon is hardly some super misogynistic asshole. I mean this is the guy who pretty much lets his girlfriend, Ygritte, tell him he is pretty much a dumb ass, who knows jack squat, and accepts it.
Yet now, evidently according to Turner Jon is the Randyll Tarly of the North. Why? I guess, hey, that is what the plot demands.

It's really bizarre, Turner clearly felt like Jon was misogynistic here and, with her dialogue calling him out for not asking her advice, Sandra seemed to think so as well. Yet, not asking someone with zero experience their opinion isn't sexist, it's practical. Asking someone who had no martial training and had never seen a battle her opinion on tactics could be seen as patronizing.

Meanwhile, Sandra is completely dismissive of Jon's legitimate experience and that makes her empowered.

Even rewinding to the scene in Mole's Town with LF, Sandra's reaction was concerning. She stated that LF was an idiot if he didn't know about Ramsey and while there is some validity to that, what about you, Sandra? You're actually from the North and there were many people still loyal to your family. I don't mean to victim shame, just to say that there was an important lesson in that horrible experience that she clearly didn't learn.

The writing is far more misogynistic than the characters. Sandra lets men decide her fate then her 'empowerment' is to blame them rather than learning self-reliance. She speaks out that her voice needs to be heard then doesn't have anything to say. It's disgusting.

[Le Cygne]

They don't know how to write for men or women, and the result is an offensive mess. They are either woefully not up to the task, or lazy (probably both). Lazy because it's really not that hard to do better. It's a very nasty show, and it's difficult to even see the characters as human, much less care about them.

[Johnston]

8 hours ago, LazyBazooka said:

Lancel was the 'handsome young man' that Littlefinger gave to Olenna as a 'gift', apparently so that Cersei could be imprisoned. But that never made any sense, since it was established when LF and Lancel met that he didn't have any control over him, and Lancel would've confessed all his sins to the High Sparrow when he first joined the Faith, so the HS should've known about Cersei's crimes all along.

I was thinking it was Lancel but as you say it doesn't make sense, so I thought I had forgotten something. 

[SuperMario]

3 hours ago, Sir Loin Steak said:

Littlefinger's plan is as elegant as it is ingenious! Some will have seen parts 1-16 before, I've updated for the current season.

Step 1: Seduce and exploit Lysa.

Step 2: At some personal risk, secretly extract Sansa from King's Landing.

Step 3: Acquire Harrenhal enabling him to marry Lysa. (looking good so far)

Step 4: Murder Lysa and then rely on the Vale Lord's buying your foreign kidnap victim's word. Hope that all of them are inexplicably loyal to the Starks.

Step 5: Dress Sansa as a villain for funsies. Creep on her as much as possible to ensure loyalty.

Step 6: With Robert Arryn under his "protection" he can now effectively control the Vale until he comes of age.

Step 7: Immediately fob off his new ward on a lunkhead lord who has no reason to be loyal to you, but may be stupid enough to accidentally kill the infirm Sweet Robin.

Step 8: With the suspicious death of Lysa still fresh in everyone's memory, Robert Arryn out of his clutches, and leaving the Vale Lords absolutely no reason to remain loyal to him - promptly leave the Vale.

Step 9: Fail to do any research whatsoever on your choice of marriage prospect for Sansa (his one remaining asset). Randomly decide that a man who you know betrayed his liege-lord, Roose Bolton, is a reliable partner. Despite knowing the value of information, maintaining a spy network that rivals Varys', and repeatedly telling others to trust no-one; assume that not hearing anything about Roose's bastard (who is already infamous in the North) is somehow a good thing!

Step 10: Hope that Roose will turn on his current ally and only meaningful support, despite the hostility of lords he currently rules over, making his current position very risky. Accomplish this in one sentence by rambling about the last-time the North and the Vale teamed up they like totally conquered everybody. Assume that Roose is an ignorant rube with as little grasp of history, context, military realities as yourself.

Step 11: Despite there being literally no prospect of negative repercussions for him, and in fact every reason to think he would benefit, assume that Roose won't have you immediately killed or imprisoned and simply keep Sansa (or even send her back to the Lannisters).

Step 12: Fail to understand how a marriage pact works. He is not related to Sansa, so there is no dynastic tie being formed. His involvement is secret, but on his journey he made no real effort to hide his movements (in fact Qyburn seems to be aware that he is in Winterfell, given that he relays Cersei's message to him there during his brief stay) - if either his presence becomes known or the revelation of Sansa's marriage becomes known he is quite clearly involved in high treason.

Step 13: With no credible reason to think so, assume that Sansa will be able to take control of this situation.

Step 14: Provide the Boltons with the extremely valuable means of legitimising their rule, get absolutely nothing in return. Rely on the kindness of their hearts!

Step 15: Incorrectly guess that Stannis will defeat the Boltons. Assume, despite knowing what Stannis is like, that he will then somehow be thankful for placing Sansa with the Boltons? Make the case after he wins that you only gave Sansa to his enemies so that he could claim her after winning? Or in other words assume the man that you think will destroy the Boltons is an incredibly gullible fool, despite serving on the council with him for years - from which you also know he personally dislikes you.

Step 16: Congratulations! You've successfully given away everything you spent years scheming to get for literally nothing in return! Return to King's Landing to pass Cersei, do not collect any money from the brothel. Do act smarmy to the religious extremists who've taken over the city and are powerful enough to threaten the King and hold the members of the monarchy on little more than heresay.

Step 17: Return to the Vale. Don't worry about any questions arising from your insane plan to give Sansa to the Boltons, you have the perfect cover story. The Boltons kidnapped her. Yes, a small force of Boltons somehow became aware that Sansa was in your possession, made it into and out of the extremely defensible Vale undetected, absconded with her and left you and all your men without so much as a scratch.

Step 18: For good measure insult a powerful lord and call him a traitor in his own home, while surrounded by his men.

Step 19: Thanks to Sweet Robin miraculously not dying and being extremely easy to control, immediately gather and march the Vale army north.

Step 20: Take Moat Cailin from the south. This military feat has never been accomplished in the history of Westeros, but you can probably pull it off, after all you've got years of experience as an accountant!

Step 21: By taking Moat Cailin from the Bolton forces, you're evidently now at war with them, but you're really leaning on the element of surprise, so keep this information from reaching them or their allies. Somehow.

Step 22: Park your forces at Moat Cailin. Guess that Sansa has survived and is at Castle Black, send her a message. Travel through vast swathes of Bolton controlled territory to meet with Sansa, the young woman you traded to the monstrous Ramsay for no discernible reason.

Step 23: By this point Sansa has probably realised that you're either incompetent or perhaps don't have her best interests at heart (it's both!). That's ok though! She won't have you killed and in fact will still trust you more than her half-brother Jon. Besides you've got Sweet Robin's army to offer her, which she would probably still have if she killed you, because it's Sweet Robin's and he likes her. But don't worry she's an idiot.

Step 24: Return to the army (again through hostile territory) and wait for the Stark's inability to raise the northern lords to make your force necessary. Good thing these Northern lords are so disloyal!

Step 25: March your army up the King's road completely undetected.

Step 26: Arrive at Winterfell completely undetected, just in the nick of time to win the battle between the Stark forces and the Boltons (at least 90% of the Stark forces should be dead at this point).

 

We'll have to wait till the end of the week for step 27+ but it's likely to involve Sansa not understanding leverage, because no-one in this universe understands that concept.

This might be the best post ever on this forum. So great, but unfortunately so sad.

[Sir Loin Steak]

9 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

This might be the best post ever on this forum. So great, but unfortunately so sad.

Thank you for such high praise. Each step of Littlefinger's plan is more cunning and calculated than the last! 

[CrastorsLivingSon]

49 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

So the latest rumors is that L+R=J will not be confirmed in the finale.

If so Season 6 has truly been a complete waste of time.

Still reading thru to the end; apologies if it was mentioned.

 

Not a waste of time.  Further (the?) proof that d$d have absolutely no clue what to do without source material and are spinning their wheels in hopes TWOW is released.  Or (god helps us all) they get an advance manuscript to go off of.  The entire season was one big ass stall in the hopes they get something to work with that makes them look awesome.  Would be awesome if George just holds off to spite them; though I would personally hate the wait.  

And if the only way they can do it is to have Batfinger do the reveal they can wait as long as they like to save me the pain of watching that nonsense.  

[Eltharion21]

I liked this review of episode 09 and I'm posting  for people to check it out  , though angry show fans tend dislike to this video and  whine about honest unbiased reviews.

 

[OldGimletEye]

43 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

This was very interesting by the way: http://www.fandomfollowing.com/sansa-stark-cinderella-abuse-empowerment/. 

 

Good article.
At this time, I think with regard to Sandra's smirking scenes, they probably would have been better if Emperor Palpatine were in the background, saying "Good, Good. Feel the hate inside you and your journey to the darkside will be complete". Then begin the Imperial March.

[lostcause]

So Turner is one of the more tinfoily people who see misogyny and patriarchy lurking behind most actions or inactions by a man. That's rather disappointing. I wonder when we can have normal and equal interaction between genders again without turning it into a 'men look down at women' thing.

 

Am I simply too old and outdated, to believe in and live by the rule of absolute equality, to judge people on their actions and behaviour first and foremost and not by the colour of their skin or what they may or may not have between their legs? Why is it always misogyny or the patriarchy in action when a man disagrees with or dislikes an individual who happen to be a woman?

- not that I saw any of that in the scene she refers to, Sansa stood off to a side and clearly didn't want to participate in the talks, it was only when the others left she decide to whine to Jon about not being asked for advice. He does and she offers nothing. Ok then...

 

Sorry for the rant - getting rather tired of hearing this rhetoric, I find it waters down the focus on actual misogyny and sexism in the world when people use it indiscriminately.

[Osric]

12 hours ago, Tijgy said:

And I can compare it with the books as much as I want. In the first seasons I also said which scenes were better than the ones in the books. So it works both ways. 

 

Yes you can, it was only an opinion 

[Prince of the North]

25 minutes ago, CrastorsLivingSon said:

Still reading thru to the end; apologies if it was mentioned.

 

Not a waste of time.  Further (the?) proof that d$d have absolutely no clue what to do without source material and are spinning their wheels in hopes TWOW is released.  Or (god helps us all) they get an advance manuscript to go off of.  The entire season was one big ass stall in the hopes they get something to work with that makes them look awesome.  Would be awesome if George just holds off to spite them; though I would personally hate the wait. 

And if the only way they can do it is to have Batfinger do the reveal they can wait as long as they like to save me the pain of watching that nonsense.  

I definitely agree with you that this season has largely been a waste of precious screen time in terms of moving the "plot" forward.  A lot of stuff could have happened earlier, etc.  Also, I'm really beginning to wonder about the bolded

[Lockjaw of House Boltagon]

Apologies if this has been mentioned before but I just learned that all 5 of the series regulars will earn a huge pay rise in the next seasons (assuming their characters survive that long, that is) and they are: Dinklage, Headey, Coster-Waldau, Harington and Clarke. 

No Turner and Williams included. And that pisses me off because those two have been acting circles around almost all of the leads lately. 

I'm particularly offended by the notion of Tyrion and especially Jaime being considered leads over Arya and Sansa. Tyrion and Jaime are probably the most pointless and boring characters in the show right now, they've been awful for at least two seasons, and I'm glad that people in other sites and forums are finally agreeing with me that Dinklage has just been phoning it in for quite a while now and Tyrion's scenes are pretty much torture to watch. Just hearing him talk sets my teeth on edge. 

[SerMixalot]

1 hour ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

So the latest rumors is that L+R=J will not be confirmed in the finale.

If so Season 6 has truly been a complete waste of time.

So much that happened this season has no point, I'm looking at you Tyrion releasing the dragons

[SuperMario]

23 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

Good article.
At this time, I think with regard to Sandra's smirking scenes, they probably would have been better if Emperor Palpatine were in the background, saying "Good, Good. Feel the hate inside you and your journey to the darkside will be complete". Then begin the Imperial March.

It is unavoidable.

[SerMixalot]

1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

@Tijgy maybe Arya poisons the pies. They had her messing with poison a lot.

It would be funny if Arya did the pie poisoning and something like this happens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgWmrkJD_eg

[plastic throne]

25 minutes ago, lostcause said:

So Turner is one of the more tinfoily people who see misogyny and patriarchy lurking behind most actions or inactions by a man. That's rather disappointing. I wonder when we can have normal and equal interaction between genders again without turning it into a 'men look down at women' thing.

Am I simply too old and outdated, to believe in and live by the rule of absolute equality, to judge people on their actions and behaviour first and foremost and not by the colour of their skin or what they may or may not have between their legs? Why is it always misogyny or the patriarchy in action when a man disagrees with or dislikes an individual who happen to be a woman?

Eh, in her defense, she's young, full of rebellious energy and spends lots of time with people making the show. Give her time