[Spoilers] Criticize without repercussion

[LadyDoom]

16 hours ago, kronosrx8 said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2016/06/13/game-of-thrones-maisie-williams-explains-why-arya-was-never-goin/

"I wanted her to look like she was struggling. I didn’t want [the chase stunts] to be unnecessary or superhuman. I got on set and they were [going to have Arya] rolling around, and diving, and I was like, 'That looks amazing, but no.' I’d be like, 'Why would she run over there? She’d just duck under here and just get out."

LOL you know there are serious problems with the writing when your 19 year old actress is questioning the logic in the scene and could probably write a better storyline than the actual writers themselves. They wanted to have her stabbed for the shock value but also wanted an epic chase sequence so they ignore all the inconsistencies to make it happen. Just proof that they wanted to have their cake and eat it to.

That's.... no words honestly. 

They wanted it to be even more over the top ridiculous terminator chase scene to the point the actress herself said "sure... but no" 

Quote

"I wanted her to look like she was struggling. I didn’t want [the chase stunts] to be unnecessary or superhuman"

They should just let Maisie write Arya's story line from now on, she's spot on. 

[Ruhail]

46 minutes ago, rosehustle1 said:

I think they're control freaks. If you read Aiden's recent interview  (he was quite salty) he said you have go through all these channels in order to make a small change in how the lines are delivered and they decide whether or not it's allowed. It's not a very collaborative atmosphere for an actor. The best performances are ones in which the director allows for a bit of improversation. Rory also said that one director will tell him one thing and then D and D will tell him another. They also write the majority of the episodes. They made their own mess, and I don't feel sorry for them. There is no reason that they have to write the majority of the episodes or micromanage the actors to that degree. Then they complain about being burnt out. Duh. That happens when you don't allow anyone else to write or direct without your input. And they are loving the fraternity they've created in the writer's room. I have heard from sources that it is a complete bro-fest on set. They are intentionally limiting the diversity of their writing and directing staff.  But it's to their own creative detriment if you ask me.

Good lord. No wonder they were so unprofessional amd vindictive towards Seri Ian regarding Ser Barristan. Bloody awful. I wonder how many ther actors this has happened to. Its starting to remind me of the whole AMC vs Frank Darabont and the cast of TWD situation sheez 

[rosehustle1]

1 minute ago, Ruhail said:

Good lord. No wonder they were so unprofessional amd vindictive towards Seri Ian regarding Ser Barristan. Bloody awful. I wonder how many ther actors this has happened to. Its starting to remind me of the whole AMC vs Frank Darabont and the cast of TWD situation sheez 

If you look at Stephen Dillane's interview after the show and even the actress that played Shae, it's clear that they don't listen to their actors or let them in on what their character's overarching arc is about. I remember the actress who played Shae really fought them hard when they wanted her to implicate Sansa in Joffrey's murder. She told them that this wouldn't make sense because Shae said she would die for this girl. But ultimately they refused to listen to her and she had to deliver that line. This line made sense for book Shae but not show Shae. They do stuff like this all the time too. They change an entire characterization from the books but when it suits their plot purposes all of a sudden the character does something only their book version would. This is not how you effectively adapt a character or story.

[Armand Gargalen]

15 minutes ago, Ruhail said:

Good lord. No wonder they were so unprofessional amd vindictive towards Seri Ian regarding Ser Barristan. Bloody awful. I wonder how many ther actors this has happened to. Its starting to remind me of the whole AMC vs Frank Darabont and the cast of TWD situation sheez 

Now I start to understand Sansa and Ramsey's plot from S5. It was a metaphor on how GRRM unknowingly delivered his piece of art to a couple of arrogant sadists whose only intention was using and humiliating her.

[LadyDoom]

14 minutes ago, rosehustle1 said:

If you look at Stephen Dillane's interview after the show and even the actress that played Shae, it's clear that they don't listen to their actors or let them in on what their character's overarching arc is about. I remember the actress who played Shae really fought them hard when they wanted her to implicate Sansa in Joffrey's murder. She told them that this wouldn't make sense because Shae said she would die for this girl. But ultimately they refused to listen to her and she had to deliver that line. This line made sense for book Shae but not show Shae. They do stuff like this all the time too. They change an entire characterization from the books but when it suits their plot purposes all of a sudden the character does something only their book version would. This is not how you effectively adapt a character or story.

That's really sad to hear. I never knew any of this. 

I jokingly said they should let Maisie write Arya's story from now on but it's not that crazy really, these actors have spent a lot of time (figuratively) with the characters they portray. they know them, understand them. and sometimes, are very fond of them. I understand that any actor would want more screen time and you can't really pamper to all of them but when you have an actor saying that the writing for their character makes no sense, they should not be so quick to write them out because as time has shown, they have been very right many times. 

[Cas Stark]

There have also been a couple of instances where the actors said different things about the action than what the writers said.  Like Roose being stabbed 'in the moment' according to the actors, but the writers said Ramsay planned it.  That's um, bad.  

And then there was the infamous rape/not rape sept scene, where everyone's answers on what the intent of the scene was were all over the place.

[SerMixalot]

1 hour ago, LadyDoom said:

That's.... no words honestly. 

They wanted it to be even more over the top ridiculous terminator chase scene to the point the actress herself said "sure... but no" 

They should just let Maisie write Arya's story line from now on, she's spot on. 

Arya was struggling in those scenes?  what would she have looked like if she wasn't?

[SerMixalot]

Arya's storyline with JH since they left Harrenhall

JH would you like to go to Bravos?

Arya No

JH ok here is a coin in case  you ever get in a jam

Arya gets in jam goes to Bravos

JH you aren't welcome in the HoBaW

Arya stalks HoBaW

JH saves her again

Arya gets into the HoBaW

JH trains her

Arya bitches and moans about training

JH says get rid of everything that is your oldself

Arya doesn't

JH says you really don't belong here

Arya Yes I do

JH gives her missions

Arya fails them

JH punishes her for killing on her own

Arya gets beat up

JH gives here 1 more chance

Arya screws that up

JH sends Waif to kill her

Arya kills Waif

JH sad

Arya comes back and says she doesn't want to be a FM
JH WHY DID  YOU COME TO BRAVOS AND WASTE OUR TIME AND GET 2 ASSASINS KILLED, GET OUT OF HERE YOU INGRATE! 

[LadyDoom]

10 minutes ago, SerMixalot said:

Arya was struggling in those scenes?  what would she have looked like if she wasn't?

I kind of want to see the scene as they had envisioned it now. I mean the levels of ridiculousness achieved in the scene as it is, are really hard to top.

Maybe it would have open people's eyes... and get the writers to rethink their approach. 

nah, too much wishful thinking. 

[SerMixalot]

33 minutes ago, LadyDoom said:

I kind of want to see the scene as they had envisioned it now. I mean the levels of ridiculousness achieved in the scene as it is, are really hard to top.

Maybe it would have open people's eyes... and get the writers to rethink their approach. 

nah, too much wishful thinking. 

I think they should go Full Minions and give in to their absurdist tendencies.

[Nami]

2 hours ago, LadyDoom said:

That's.... no words honestly. 

They wanted it to be even more over the top ridiculous terminator chase scene to the point the actress herself said "sure... but no" 

They should just let Maisie write Arya's story line from now on, she's spot on. 

Still turned out to be ridiculous

They should have done what they wanted though, just for more lolz

[ummester]

6 hours ago, Houndbird said:

Don't agree about the forthcoming books at all. Reading the released chaptes of TWOW shows that we have some incredible writing and plots to look forward to.  GRRM certainly hasn't lost his touch.  We have been waiting a long time and rom the sample chapters we won't be disappointed. 

I read the Mercy chapter and found it boring. I didn't even finish the Sansa chapter, her book character puts me to sleep

It's meandering - GRRM is planting too many fruitless trees and dragging it out too much. There is a core story about Starks, Lannister, Targs, Westeros, winter, Others and dragons. This core story needs to get back on track, the rest is turning into boring filler.

[Armand Gargalen]

25 minutes ago, ummester said:

I read the Mercy chapter and found it boring. I didn't even finish the Sansa chapter, her book character puts me to sleep

It's meandering - GRRM is planting too many fruitless trees and dragging it out too much. There is a core story about Starks, Lannister, Targs, Westeros, winter, Others and dragons. This core story needs to get back on track, the rest is turning into boring filler.

Is it your first read? I felt the same the first time I read Feast and Dance. I had been so anxious to get my hands on them, and after Storm I was expecting the same pace. But on my second read, paying attention to detail, and without the anxiety for sudden plot twists, I could realize how deep they are, how much lore, background and atmosphere they provide, and how many subtle moral questions they ask from the reader. 

[WSmith84]

57 minutes ago, ummester said:

I read the Mercy chapter and found it boring. I didn't even finish the Sansa chapter, her book character puts me to sleep

It's meandering - GRRM is planting too many fruitless trees and dragging it out too much. There is a core story about Starks, Lannister, Targs, Westeros, winter, Others and dragons. This core story needs to get back on track, the rest is turning into boring filler.

I think the advantage the books have is that the characters are (for the most part) strongly-written. A meandering plot can potentially get back on track, but poor and inconsistent character development is much harder to recover from. And the show characters are not well-written, with some of them being outright poorly-written (hi Jaime!).

[ummester]

43 minutes ago, Armand Gargalen said:

Is it your first read? I felt the same the first time I read Feast and Dance. I had been so anxious to get my hands on them, and after Storm I was expecting the same pace. But on my second read, paying attention to detail, and without the anxiety for sudden plot twists, I could realize how deep they are, how much lore, background and atmosphere they provide, and how many subtle moral questions they ask from the reader. 

I'm not really interested in the sudden plot twists - I want the broad plot to develop and resolve. Resolve most of all. Great start and middle - it's time to deliver on an ending worthy of that.

You can only ask moral questions so many ways before they get boring, also. The story has proven that morality is grey, that it all depends on POV - great, I'm down with that - resolve the fucking thing already, give us a conclusion. Personally, I don't think GRRM's writing or atmosphere is that great, his word use meanders like he does - obvious in his battle scenes which are often confusing compared to other heroic fantasy stories. The writing didn't suck me in. What sucked me in was the intricate plotting and character development/relationships - but this has to lead somewhere IMO, without leading somewhere it's all for nothing.

18 minutes ago, WSmith84 said:

I think the advantage the books have is that the characters are (for the most part) strongly-written. A meandering plot can potentially get back on track, but poor and inconsistent character development is much harder to recover from. And the show characters are not well-written, with some of them being outright poorly-written (hi Jaime!).

Yes, the book characters are definitely more strongly written, even in the last 2 books where the overall plot started to lose traction. But, see above, IMO it is all for nothing unless GRRM delivers an ending worthy of his start.

[The Fattest Leech]

5 hours ago, rosehustle1 said:

I think they're control freaks. If you read Aiden's recent interview  (he was quite salty) he said you have go through all these channels in order to make a small change in how the lines are delivered and they decide whether or not it's allowed. It's not a very collaborative atmosphere for an actor. The best performances are ones in which the director allows for a bit of improversation. Rory also said that one director will tell him one thing and then D and D will tell him another. They also write the majority of the episodes. They made their own mess, and I don't feel sorry for them. There is no reason that they have to write the majority of the episodes or micromanage the actors to that degree. Then they complain about being burnt out. Duh. That happens when you don't allow anyone else to write or direct without your input. And they are loving the fraternity they've created in the writer's room. I have heard from sources that it is a complete bro-fest on set. They are intentionally limiting the diversity of their writing and directing staff.  But it's to their own creative detriment if you ask me.

Hey there. You don't happen to have a link to this article, do you? I would love to read all of it and cackle loudly.

[rosehustle1]

48 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Hey there. You don't happen to have a link to this article, do you? I would love to read all of it and cackle loudly.

It's from his EW article. He's throwing shade throughout it.http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/11/game-thrones-littlefinger

Here's a snippet:

You bring your little hints and inflections to it, though, you customize your delivery beyond the words.- interviewer, James Hibberd
"That’s the trick, isn’t it? To try and impose your view of the character. But [showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss] don’t tolerate messing around with words. If you want to make the most minute change, a word or phrasing, you have to put the request in well in advance because on the day of [filming] there’s not enough time. David and Dan are open to giving them what they don’t expect in the line read, or the tone. And they are open to discussion, but they’re not easily pushed".-Aiden Gillen

In another part of the interview you can tell even he thought it was unbelievable that Baelish didn't know about Ramsay. He's havng to rationalize their dumb plot but you get the feeling he thought it was really stupid.

And here is the one about Sibel Kekilli http://zap2it.com/2014/05/game-of-thrones-season-4-sibel-kekilli-didnt-want-shae-to-betray-sansa/

 

[The Fattest Leech]

Just now, rosehustle1 said:

It's from his EW article. He's throwing shade throughout it.http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/11/game-thrones-littlefinger

Here's a snippet:

You bring your little hints and inflections to it, though, you customize your delivery beyond the words.- interviewer, James Hibberd
"That’s the trick, isn’t it? To try and impose your view of the character. But [showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss] don’t tolerate messing around with words. If you want to make the most minute change, a word or phrasing, you have to put the request in well in advance because on the day of [filming] there’s not enough time. David and Dan are open to giving them what they don’t expect in the line read, or the tone. And they are open to discussion, but they’re not easily pushed".-Aiden Gillen

In another part of the interview you can tell even he thought it was unbelievable that Baelish didn't know about Ramsay. He's havng to rationalize their dumb plot but you get the feeling he thought it was really stupid.

And here is the one about Sibel Kekilli http://zap2it.com/2014/05/game-of-thrones-season-4-sibel-kekilli-didnt-want-shae-to-betray-sansa/

 

Gods love you. Thanks!

[The Fattest Leech]

3 minutes ago, rosehustle1 said:

It's from his EW article. He's throwing shade throughout it.http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/11/game-thrones-littlefinger

Here's a snippet:

You bring your little hints and inflections to it, though, you customize your delivery beyond the words.- interviewer, James Hibberd
"That’s the trick, isn’t it? To try and impose your view of the character. But [showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss] don’t tolerate messing around with words. If you want to make the most minute change, a word or phrasing, you have to put the request in well in advance because on the day of [filming] there’s not enough time. David and Dan are open to giving them what they don’t expect in the line read, or the tone. And they are open to discussion, but they’re not easily pushed".-Aiden Gillen

In another part of the interview you can tell even he thought it was unbelievable that Baelish didn't know about Ramsay. He's havng to rationalize their dumb plot but you get the feeling he thought it was really stupid.

And here is the one about Sibel Kekilli http://zap2it.com/2014/05/game-of-thrones-season-4-sibel-kekilli-didnt-want-shae-to-betray-sansa/

 

Yeah, LF dies this season. Between this article and the fact that he read the books, he's a goner.

[rosehustle1]

1 minute ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Yeah, LF dies this season. Between this article and the fact that he read the books, he's a goner.

I honestly can't tell because I keep hearing rumors that he

Spoiler

saves Jon and Sansa with the Vale troops and then feed Ramsay to his own dogs.