is there another dragon egg - or the dragons will extinct?

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

30 minutes ago, Ser Creighton said:

There were no dragons left, 'and for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with music of dragons.'

That is narration, that is Martin.

This is Martin giving us Dany's point of view.

30 minutes ago, Ser Creighton said:

Further Quaithe will support this idea. A person from Asshai,

" They shall come day and night to see the wonder born into the world again. And when they see they shall lust... for dragons are fire made flesh... and fire is power."

Born into the world again. Seems like the world was without and she would know after all.

What Bran is seeing is the future, remember that vision is early on, and in Martin's world the visions of the past and present are literal

Nope, Bran's vision is of the present. Cat aboard a ship, Robert's party with Ned, Sansa, Arya etc. at the Trident, Jon at the Wall, and dragons in Asshai.

[Damon_Tor]

1 hour ago, Jaak said:

Count the individuals who expressly hatched their own dragons in childhood:

Aegon II/Sunfyre

Aegon III/Stormcloud

Baela/Moondancer

Daeron/Tessarion

Rhaena/twice, second time Morning

Rhaenyra/Syrax

Jacaerys/Vermax

Joffrey/Tyraxes

Lucerys/Arrax

Jaehaerys/Shrykos

Jaehaera/Morghul

There is no apparent preference for girls. Boys can hatch dragon eggs just as well.

 

Well the hypothesis is, any egg that appeared to be hatched by a male Targaryen was actually hatched by a nearby female relative, usually his mother. An X-chromosome-linked recessive gene would explain why dragons hatching occurs in only fits and bursts in Westerosi history, and it would explain the otherwise arbitrary positions the faith/citadel seemed to take on Targ incest through the years. If the incest was just an excuse, and the real reason was to keep the dragon population from increasing, then it makes sense that certain Targ/Targ matchups wouldn't bother them, and that seems to be the case.

[Itai Peer]

in any case ,most of the dargon eggs were destroyed at the summerhall tragedy.   

Beside Dany's 3 hatched eggs , there was one with Euron  which is no either lost, still his , or with the faceless.  

any other ? 

[StarkofWinterfell]

There is supposed to be a hidden stash of them on Dragonstone.

[Jaak]

1 hour ago, StarkofWinterfell said:

There is supposed to be a hidden stash of them on Dragonstone.

Stannis would gladly have sold them to hire mercenaries.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

2 hours ago, Itai Peer said:

in any case ,most of the dargon eggs were destroyed at the summerhall tragedy.   

Beside Dany's 3 hatched eggs , there was one with Euron  which is no either lost, still his , or with the faceless.  

any other ? 

The fact that Illyrio gifted three dragon eggs to Dany strongly suggests they weren't the last ones in the known world. That would have made them nearly priceless, and the cheesemonger is nothing if not a savvy businessman. He could've think of some other royal gift instead, or even just give her one dragon egg, not three.

[Springwatch]

9 minutes ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

The fact that Illyrio gifted three dragon eggs to Dany strongly suggests they weren't the last ones in the known world. That would have made them nearly priceless, and the cheesemonger is nothing if not a savvy businessman. He could've think of some other royal gift instead, or even just give her one dragon egg, not three.

Good point.

But all the eggs on the market would be fossilised - I think there's a quote somewhere about Dany's eggs being turned to stone by the aeons. Compared to fresh eggs, hatching a stone egg must take an additional process, perhaps magical, and that's why there have been no new dragons for such a long time.

[CJ McLannister]

15 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Nope, Bran's vision is of the present. Cat aboard a ship, Robert's party with Ned, Sansa, Arya etc. at the Trident, Jon at the Wall, and dragons in Asshai.

Then why did those dragons not enhance magic the way Dany's do?  

And if it's all happening as he sees it, what's the headless giant made of stone?

[Lion of the West]

If dragons represent magic than I hope these beasts will live forever in Westeros, Targaryens or not.

[Red Man Racey]

8 hours ago, Itai Peer said:

in any case ,most of the dargon eggs were destroyed at the summerhall tragedy.   

Beside Dany's 3 hatched eggs , there was one with Euron  which is no either lost, still his , or with the faceless.  

any other ? 

Nobody knows what happened to the eggs at Summerhall. Then there's the rumored cache of dragon eggs on Dragonstone and another rumored clutch in Winterfell. Also, depending on the nature of the Doom of Valyria there is the possibility that eggs could have survived the event and remain in the ruins -- if it is true that Euron did visit Old Valyria this could be the source of his dragon egg.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

4 hours ago, CJ McLannister said:

Then why did those dragons not enhance magic the way Dany's do?  

And if it's all happening as he sees it, what's the headless giant made of stone?

1. What are the rules? Do the dragons cause magic, or does magic cause dragons? Do the Asshai dragons follow the same rules as Dany's dragons? Who knows?

2. A good question. I don't know. Maybe Ser Ilyn?

[Ser Creighton]

20 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

This is Martin giving us Dany's point of view.

Nope, Bran's vision is of the present. Cat aboard a ship, Robert's party with Ned, Sansa, Arya etc. at the Trident, Jon at the Wall, and dragons in Asshai.

Actually that's not true, Martin may use POV's but it's third person, Dany is never the narrator none of the POV's are. The story is related to you by something that does not exist within the story. It's not dialogue or a thought by the character or it would be italicized or related as a thought. 

It is not pseudo dialogue, or a direct thought, it is not indirect thought as it does not relay her thinking it, Dany is not recounting. 

Bran does not have one vision but several, and not all are of the present.

He saw his father pleading with the king, his face etched with grief.

He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart.

"There were shadows all around them. One shadow was as dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound." Foreshadowing, the hound is not a shadow nor is around any of them at that time.

"Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood." Again foreshadowing, not the present.

"He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the narrow sea, to the Free Cities and the green Dothraki sea and beyond, to Vaes Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise. " Another vision, dragons stirred beneath the sunrise, tell me how does one look beneath the sunrise? It's not literal and again foreshadowing. This is also not Bran narrating, it's not his thought how would he identify Vaes Dothrak and the Dothraki Sea or anything else.

The narrator is describing what Bran sees, not Bran himself. Just as he described what Dany heard, a sound not heard for hundreds of years.

The vision contains, symbolism, foreshadowing, and also the present. But it is not subject to the present alone.

You also have Martin himself saying we will not visit Asshai.

And Quaithe again is a point not countered.

 

 

[Damon_Tor]

6 hours ago, CJ McLannister said:

Then why did those dragons not enhance magic the way Dany's do?  

You're assuming that Dany's dragons enhance magic. Correlation does not imply causation.

[Curled Finger]

On topic, I believe there were 7 eggs at Summerhall, but I'm not sure that's confirmed.   Let's come back to this in a bit.   

The Lord Commander of the Nights Watch formerly known as Maynard Plumm secured an illicitly gained egg from Lord Butterwell.  That egg's fate as well as the fate of a certain valuable VS sword seem to have disappeared with him as well.   

The World Book suggests that Vermithor or Silverwing may have laid a clutch of eggs at Winterfell. 

The World Book states that dragons exist at Asshai.

If fire and Targ blood were the only requirements for hatching dragons, all the eggs would have hatched at Summerhall.   Truth is Aegon 3 was terrified of the dragons and did nothing to help propagate them.   Still there were small dragons after the DOD and they laid eggs that were reported to never hatch.  The Targaryan connection to dragons really seems to have waned in the years following the Dance of Dragons to the extinction of dragons.    Still that connection does seem to be a thing forged in blood sacrifice, spells and a even a little genetic engineering in Valyria.  @chrisdaw started a topic last night and offers up a beautiful analysis of the requirements of blood sacrifice required to create or hatch dragons.   Check it out for a much more elaborate explanation than I can offer here, the topic is called  Varamyr Turned into a Wolf, Valyrians did the same thing to Dragons to Tame Them.  

Regardless the number of eggs at Summerhall, it's unlikely they were destroyed or even harmed in anyway by the fire.   Those eggs surely survived but no one has claimed to have them.    Rhaegar liked to go back and forth and I like to think he gave Lyanna an egg for their child and hope that egg will turn up in the crypts making the rumor about Vermithor or Silverwings' clutch more of an indicator of future truth.   I hope Rhaegar gave Rhaenys and Aegon eggs as well and that their mother had the foresight to secure those eggs somewhere.   Lame, sure.   But I like it.   

No one can say with any real certainty exactly how many dragon eggs exist, but I would be surprised if the number wasn't much larger than we suspect.   

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

15 hours ago, Ser Creighton said:

Actually that's not true, Martin may use POV's but it's third person, Dany is never the narrator none of the POV's are. The story is related to you by something that does not exist within the story. It's not dialogue or a thought by the character or it would be italicized or related as a thought. 

Yes, GRRM uses third-person narration, but decidedly not omniscient. Emphatically not omniscient. The narrator of Dany's chapters knows, or at least shares, what Dany knows, no more.

15 hours ago, Ser Creighton said:

It is not pseudo dialogue, or a direct thought, it is not indirect thought as it does not relay her thinking it, Dany is not recounting. 

Bran does not have one vision but several, and not all are of the present.

He saw his father pleading with the king, his face etched with grief.

He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart.

"There were shadows all around them. One shadow was as dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound." Foreshadowing, the hound is not a shadow nor is around any of them at that time.

The Hound was present at the Trident, moreover, he played an important part in the whole Lady incident. Not "foreshadowing", more like "presentshadowing".

15 hours ago, Ser Creighton said:

"Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood." Again foreshadowing, not the present.

Wrong again. Jaime was there, he, too, played a part. And if the giant refers to Ilyn Payne, then ditto.

15 hours ago, Ser Creighton said:

"He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the narrow sea, to the Free Cities and the green Dothraki sea and beyond, to Vaes Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise. " Another vision, dragons stirred beneath the sunrise, tell me how does one look beneath the sunrise?

And how does one look somewhere where his eyes aren't?

15 hours ago, Ser Creighton said:

It's not literal and again foreshadowing.

You throw the word around generously, but offer nothing to support.

15 hours ago, Ser Creighton said:

This is also not Bran narrating, it's not his thought how would he identify Vaes Dothrak and the Dothraki Sea or anything else.

Right. It's not as if he gets first rate education, or is a young boy who loves listening to stories, or anything.

15 hours ago, Ser Creighton said:

The narrator is describing what Bran sees, not Bran himself. Just as he described what Dany heard, a sound not heard for hundreds of years.

The vision contains, symbolism, foreshadowing, and also the present. But it is not subject to the present alone.

You also have Martin himself saying we will not visit Asshai.

Huh? Would you care to make a point here? Assuming that GRRM has said that we will not visit Asshai, and assuming that's even true, how is that relevant to the discussed issue? If we won't go there, then there are no dragons?

15 hours ago, Ser Creighton said:

And Quaithe again is a point not countered.

It relies on two premises, "Quaithe would know" (when was the last time Quaithe was in Asshai?) and "Quaithe would tell the truth". As you didn't bother proving either of those, there's no point for me to shoot down.

[Jaak]

On 24.6.2016 at 7:47 AM, Curled Finger said:

 Truth is Aegon 3 was terrified of the dragons and did nothing to help propagate them.   Still there were small dragons after the DOD and they laid eggs that were reported to never hatch.  The Targaryan connection to dragons really seems to have waned in the years following the Dance of Dragons to the extinction of dragons.    @chrisdaw

 

We are told he did something.

At the end of Dance, there were 3 dragons in the world known to be alive. Silverwing, Cannibal and Morning.

What precisely happened to them?

[Curled Finger]

12 hours ago, Jaak said:

We are told he did something.

At the end of Dance, there were 3 dragons in the world known to be alive. Silverwing, Cannibal and Morning.

What precisely happened to them?

I don't recall a dragon called Morning, but I do recall that Cannibal and Sheepstealer were thought to have survived elsewhere.   You brought up Silverwing, who I've assumed was killed with a bolt, but no, Silverwing actually survived and does seem to disappear into the world somewhere.    I've read theories that Cannibal may have relocated to Skaggos, but I think that's more or less because the Skagosi are rumored to be cannibals.    Probably a non-starter.    Sheepstealer is theorized to have made for the Vale, but again, only rumor with absolutely no substance that I've found.  Rhaenyra left KL in order to get back to Dragonstone in hopes of hatching more dragons which leads me to believe there were at least at that time, dragon eggs o'plenty there.   

I don't think anyone actually knows what became of the surviving dragons after the dance.  However, if they did survive I think they must have gone far away from Westeros.   Again, I have to apologize for my lack of understanding here as I don't recall learning that Aegon 3 did anything at all.  

[Jaak]

8 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I don't recall a dragon called Morning,

 It´s in World. The egg hatched by Rhaena in the end of Dance.

8 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

 Again, I have to apologize for my lack of understanding here as I don't recall learning that Aegon 3 did anything at all.  

Calling 9 mages from Essos to try and hatch the remaining eggs.

[Seams]

On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 1:58 PM, 1/7 Maester said:

Euron probaby paid the Faceless Men with a dragon egg for killing Balon, and covering the killing as an accident.

The Faceless Men would like to know how to hatch the egg, so they send Jaqen to the Citadel.

Euron does not worry because he hopes that with his horn he can make even that potential dragon obey him.

By the way he told Victarion about throwing the egg into the sea. In the case of braavos, it was not even a complete lie.

At least I think like this.

It is possible that dragons still dwell beyond Asshai.

I like this explanation of the current whereabouts of Euron's egg.

I just started a "reread" of the audiobook of A Feast for Crows, and the prologue is the one with Pate obsessed with getting a gold dragon so he can "buy" Rosie's virginity. I think some of the symbols of this prologue might equate Rosie with the throne of Westeros (see the Puns and Wordplay thread for an explanation of the throne / thorn wordplay, and why the Iron Throne might represent the stem of a rose) and the fact that you can't get Rosie unless you have a Gold Dragon coin. Others in this forum have theorized that the "Alchemist" who pays Pate a gold dragon for the mysterious key from the Citadel is Jaqen or another Faceless Man (in the dialogue of the drinking party, I also thought there were signs that "Leo Tyrell" was also Jaqen - has this been discussed?).

To make a long story short, I think that people identified with coins are going to have dragons or dragon eggs. I've mentioned elsewhere that I think Littlefinger and Tyrion, both Masters of Coins, are likely to have dragons or eggs already or will obtain them soon. This coin symbolism in AFfC provides further evidence to support that line of thinking. (I believe Littlefinger obtained his eggs from Penny and Groat, who obtained them from the Sealord of Braavos. Penny and Groat are coin names, so this also fits.)

The Facless Men use poison coins as murder weapons, so it would fit with the coin theory that these coin carriers are also trying to get or hatch a dragon egg.

So now I want to know more about the Iron Bank of Braavos, a place with many coins, and why they would send an envoy into the cold to cut a deal with Stannis. I bet it has to do with the rumored clutch of eggs on Dragonstone. Stannis' daughter has greyscale - dragons also have scales. I bet the fate of Shireen is tied up with the future hatching of a dragon egg from some eggs hidden by Stannis.

But I realize that Vargo Hoat had a long chain with lots of coins on it, and I don't know of a dragon connection for him. So maybe the coins connected to dragons have to be Gold Dragons?