Liffguard Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Leadsom has some genuinely frightening views. So does May, but in this instance I think she's the least worst choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 57 minutes ago, Liffguard said: Leadsom has some genuinely frightening views. So does May, but in this instance I think she's the least worst choice. Can you enlighten me (or point me towards enlightenment) on Leadsom? I know nothing about her but May frightens me so much I'd rather Gove, so I'm fascinated how someone could possibly be worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 5 minutes ago, polishgenius said: Can you enlighten me (or point me towards enlightenment) on Leadsom? I know nothing about her but May frightens me so much I'd rather Gove, so I'm fascinated how someone could possibly be worse. She thinks that small businesses (<3 employees) should be exempt from employment laws (I.e. minimum wage, unfair dismissal, pension rights, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liffguard Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 In addition to that she's a fundamentalist christian with some extremely outdated social views (even by conservative standards) and ideas about web use that make May look positively liberal. Edit: to expand a bit, she thinks that all websites (all websites) should receive a rating like films or games before going live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Crabb has also withdrawn It looks like May will win among the MPs, and probably among the members too, but Leadsom does have a (small) chance to win there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 So, having read up some on Leadsom following your cues and others, it strikes me that she's only very loosely tethered to actual reality. This contest is terrifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 10 minutes ago, polishgenius said: This contest is terrifying. There are definitely times when political contests make me think of the Alien vs Predator tagline, "Whoever wins, we lose". I suppose it's inevitable that most of us in this thread would regard a Tory leadership election as being about trying to find the lesser of five evils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Mongoose Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Well Ken Clarke thinks it's a fiasco: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36717447 "With Michael as prime minister we'd go to war with three countries at once". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 I'm with Clarke on this one. Theresa May has an awful lot to not recommend her for the job, but at least her personal bubble of existence seems to tangentially intersect with reality, plus she seems to despise the likes of Gove which means he'll hopefully be kept well away from government. The rest are all floating around somewhere in an alternate 1950s created by the fever dreams of Enid Blyton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 4 minutes ago, Werthead said: I'm with Clarke on this one. Theresa May has an awful lot to not recommend her for the job, but at least her personal bubble of existence seems to tangentially intersect with reality, plus she seems to despise the likes of Gove which means he'll hopefully be kept well away from government. The rest are all floating around somewhere in an alternate 1950s created by the fever dreams of Enid Blyton. There was a great quote I read recently from some American Republican about why he'd support Clinton over Trump because 'she may be wrong, but at least she's wrong within normal parameters', perhaps this is a British equivalent? Whoever wins the contest I've got the horrid feeling we'll quickly be feeling nostalgic for the times when David Cameron was PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 26 minutes ago, Werthead said: I'm with Clarke on this one. Theresa May has an awful lot to not recommend her for the job, but at least her personal bubble of existence seems to tangentially intersect with reality, plus she seems to despise the likes of Gove which means he'll hopefully be kept well away from government. The rest are all floating around somewhere in an alternate 1950s created by the fever dreams of Enid Blyton. Lashings of cream and ginger beer for all school kids! And a budget-slashed constabulary assisted during the school holidays by roving bands of nosy pre-pubescent children solving crimes across the country. Julian Kirrin to lead the Met, and "Fatty" Trotteville as Home Secretary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slick Mongoose Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 19 minutes ago, williamjm said: Whoever wins the contest I've got the horrid feeling we'll quickly be feeling nostalgic for the times when David Cameron was PM. Lets face it, he was the left wing of the conservative party. Him and Ken Clarke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 1 hour ago, williamjm said: There was a great quote I read recently from some American Republican about why he'd support Clinton over Trump because 'she may be wrong, but at least she's wrong within normal parameters', perhaps this is a British equivalent? Whoever wins the contest I've got the horrid feeling we'll quickly be feeling nostalgic for the times when David Cameron was PM. I really like that. There are probably many times in many different situations where this sort of thing applies. I'll have to remember it for future reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 That's a PJ O'Rourke quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilletteMace Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 9 hours ago, James Arryn said: Even some friends I'd have never thought to remotely a racist bone have, this trip, made comments that I found very shocking. One objected strongly to the idea of women being allowed to wear hijabs if, say, dealing with children. It was stated as both a symbol of male oppression... i also think its a symbol of male oppression. i am not a racist, i would consider myself pretty tolerant but i support secularism and laicism in the european tradition. talking about racism getting stronger in europe, its true to a certain degree. but its not a new development, since the 90s they challenge european countries. the redistribution of wealth and power is responsible for it, as long as parties across europe and the rest of the world do not redistribute wealth down the pyramid, things will only get worse. of course the growth of the european identity has to do with the nationalistic movement too. since national identities have to decline to make room for a european identity, conservative people are getting instrumentalized as they have a tendency to strongly react to fear. additionally the economic problems with the southern countries are used to add fuel to the fear of the poor people. now there are refugees coming to europe and they all fight for the same pot. thats what drives nationalism in europe right now. its the struggle of the poor for the small bit they have to share with more and more people. unable to understand that the european cultures and economies can master this challange easily, people irrationally fear. sadly many of the poor are uneducated and prone to populist fearmongerers. brexit will hit the poor british people the hardest. they have lost on all fronts. its tragic. the only positive hopefully is, the redistribution issue will become more and more apparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 2 hours ago, Slick Mongoose said: Lets face it, he was the left wing of the conservative party. Him and Ken Clarke. Somewhere, the old Tory wets are cringing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 17 hours ago, Sophelia said: Well the Labour party is still in limbo. I am even more baffled by nothing happening with this coup. Massive no. of MPs declare no confidence in Corbyn, but they have still not put forward any alternative. The rumour that Angela Eagle would step up has not materialised, so we now have a situation where Corbyn is still the leader but tainted by the revolt of his own MPs, which is the worst of all possible worlds (support for Labour has dropped). Personally I remain dismayed that Corbyn was attacked by his own MPs now at all times, where Labour could have put on a strong opposition, and I would have been interested to hear Corbyn's views on how to make the best of Brexit from a socialist position, but have heard nothing on this. So now Labour is limping on, seeming to make no progress on solving the leadership crisis: Corbyn seems to be ignoring what happened, and is still receiving massive popular support (more than any Labour leader in my lifetime: I don't remember rallies like this in favour of a Labour leader before). I don't know what, if anything, the rebel MPs are doing: perhaps they didn't have a plan B if Corbyn refused to resign, but I had the impression that he was willing to have another leadership contest and some say his support is waning, so if they could find some alternative candidates they need to be making themselves known surely, so people can hear a new strong voice for Labour? Some people speculate they are waiting for the Chilcot report to come out tomorrow, in case the public then turns against supporters of the Iraq war, but as this report does not consider the legality of the war against Iraq I'm not sure what difference it will make (as far as I am aware people are already entrenched in their views about the Iraq war in any case). Anyone got any idea what is going on or what is likely to happen? Well, they could have put on a strong opposition in theory, but Corbyn has never done that, which is kinda the whole issue. He's been a pretty shite leader afaik and waffled like crazy on the Brexit vote and for that alone should be pilloried and sent packing. At the same, the MPs have issues because while the actual MPs of Labour don't support him, the people who show up for the leadership vote may well do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 He "waffled" on Brexit because he was being forced to publicly support a position he privately opposed. He *wanted* Brexit, but wasn't allowed to say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 10 minutes ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: He "waffled" on Brexit because he was being forced to publicly support a position he privately opposed. He *wanted* Brexit, but wasn't allowed to say it. So he's at odds with his party's own stated position and can't even hide it. Which is being shitty at his job. And also just generally displays shitty judgement cause Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 22 minutes ago, Shryke said: So he's at odds with his party's own stated position and can't even hide it. Which is being shitty at his job. And also just generally displays shitty judgement cause Brexit. Try advocating in favour of something you really don't want, and see how good you are it. I mean, Corbyn sees the EU as a neoliberal monster: in its current form it is the antithesis of what he believes in. As for the party's stated position, Labour was the Eurosceptic party up until the late 1980s; Corbyn comes from that generation. In fact, David Owen, who back in the 1970s was a chief Labour Europhile, to the point where he split from the party in the early 1980s, was advocating a Leave vote this time round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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