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Bakker XLV: Optimal Tip-to-Tip Damnation (no TGO Spoilers)


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That all is fine, Calibandar. The issue I have is the part where bakker said he sent out manuscripts to others of the whole thing - and that manuscript was apparently not the whole thing, per madness. And not only was it not the whole thing, it was even titled as another book.

I am becoming more convinced that madness is simply lying now. Bakker has been pretty consistent in his messages. Madness has already lied once about the contents of a book for sure. That would make the most sense.

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3 minutes ago, Dickwad Poster #3784 said:

That all is fine, Calibandar. The issue I have is the part where bakker said he sent out manuscripts to others of the whole thing - and that manuscript was apparently not the whole thing, per madness. And not only was it not the whole thing, it was even titled as another book.

I am becoming more convinced that madness is simply lying now. Bakker has been pretty consistent in his messages. Madness has already lied once about the contents of a book for sure. That would make the most sense.

Wait - Madness is lying now about what?

And why?

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6 minutes ago, Sci-2 said:

Wait - Madness is lying now about what?

And why?

As far as I can tell the discrepancy is Bakker saying he turned in manuscript and send it to friends (context requires this to be TGO+TUC manuscript) but Madness claims he only received TGO manuscript and has never seen anything with TUC in it. 

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6 minutes ago, Sci-2 said:

Wait - Madness is lying now about what?

And why?

My hypothesis is that madness is lying about receiving a manuscript entitled the great ordeal. And did in fact receive a manuscript of TUC pre split. The reasoning behind this is so that he could participate in conversations without feeling like everyone was plying him for information.

We know he lied about a Kellhus chapter existing - he said it didn't. And either he was lying about receiving TUC before or he's lying now. 

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1 hour ago, Calibandar said:

March 2014: Scott posts that his agent has the book and that manuscripts are being sent out to various friends. In comments , Scott mentions to me " The ms is substantially bigger than WLW, actually, and about twice the size of TJE."

So again, at this point he is talking about the big manuscript from which now result two books.

That's really what I'm curious about. At that point did he turn in the TGO+TUC, or just TGO?

In that post he specifically says that he's sending the manuscript to his beta readers and names Madness as one of them in the comments... Three months later he says that Madness has read the manuscript. He also doesn't name the book or mention if it concludes tAE here.

If he did actually turn in the full TUC to his agent, and was planning to send the entire manuscript to Madness (assuming that Madness isn't lying now) but shit happened and the split was made in this three month period, that's fine with me. But my initial takeaway after reading this thread was that Bakker only really turned in TGO manuscript at that point, the same manuscript that he sent to Madness. Plus, I can't get it out of my head that this is the same person who used a sockpuppet on this forum to tell people that their problem was that Bakker is more clever than them.

As for whether he finished the book or not, if he's rewriting it then he's not finished yet.

It's cool that some people have no doubts that the book is coming out in 2017. Whatever that's worth. For the record, if you go back in threads some people were expecting TUC to come out at the end of 2013.

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1 minute ago, Hello World said:

 Plus, I can't get it out of my head that this is the same person who used a sockpuppet on this forum to tell people that their problem was that Bakker is more clever than them.

Yeah, I think any other author would get an easier pass for these coincidences. But we've been here with sockpuppets before.

OTOH who knows what "Madness" - again, assuming this is a real person - did on his own with this "troll the fans" weirdness? 

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Regarding the POV thing, madness admitted ON THESE FORUMS that he lied. If you really need me too I can dig them up, but it wasn't that long ago, and certainly was not second hand. And really, if you don't think some of the fan community is POed at madnes, well, you're just wrong at that point.

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35 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Regarding the POV thing, madness admitted ON THESE FORUMS that he lied. If you really need me too I can dig them up, but it wasn't that long ago, and certainly was not second hand. And really, if you don't think some of the fan community is POed at madnes, well, you're just wrong at that point.

can you dig it up?

thanks.

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3 hours ago, Hello World said:

 

It's cool that some people have no doubts that the book is coming out in 2017. Whatever that's worth. For the record, if you go back in threads some people were expecting TUC to come out at the end of 2013.

That has nothing to do with it, of course. People hoped the next book would come out in 2013, and in 2014, and in 2015, but that was never based on information, but on expectation. Not unreasonable expectation, but expectation nonetheless. Now we know, because we've been flat out told so, by the author. Scott's been keeping his cards very close to his chest due to all the publishing woes behind the screen, but he's mentioned before on the blog that the book would folow within a year of Great Ordal  and now he has indicated a precise date. We just have to wait and see now.

 

4 hours ago, Dickwad Poster #3784 said:

That all is fine, Calibandar. The issue I have is the part where bakker said he sent out manuscripts to others of the whole thing - and that manuscript was apparently not the whole thing, per madness.

I believe this is correct, and what was sent back then was not the whole thing.

Confirmed by Madness here:

http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=1777.0

 

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Question for more serious Bakker fans who've read the Great Ordeal:

I'm a pretty casual Bakker fan- I read The Prince of Nothing all pretty close together around the time Thousandfold Thought was released, and then read The Judging Eye and White Luck Warrior as they came out (and enjoyed them less than the original trilogy). At this point, it's been five years since I last read a Bakker book and over ten since I started this series, and I've never been involved in discussing them. So... Is it worthwhile to read the Great Ordeal on its own? Or, is it better to wait until next year for the Unholy Consult to read both at once, hopefully having re-read the whole series by that point? Especially if, as people in this thread are suggesting, Unholy Consult may actually not get released next year... If The Great Ordeal feels like one half of a long book (like A Feast for Crows), I'm not sure I want a long wait before there's any payoff, especially since I'll probably forget what's happened in the meantime. Thoughts?

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5 hours ago, Sci-2 said:

 

Yeah, I think any other author would get an easier pass for these coincidences. But we've been here with sockpuppets before.

OTOH who knows what "Madness" - again, assuming this is a real person - did on his own with this "troll the fans" weirdness? 

Yeah. This. I would hope that Bakker wouldn't be dumb enough to pull that shit again though.

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2 hours ago, Calibandar said:

I believe this is correct, and what was sent back then was not the whole thing.

Confirmed by Madness here:

http://www.second-apocalypse.com/index.php?topic=1777.0

 

Right. That's what I've been talking about. So you tell me - how does this square with Bakker saying that he sent the full TUC out to a bunch of friends? 

Either that was a lie and he sent out TGO to a bunch of people, one of which was Madness, or he did send the whole thing out and Madness is lying now. Or I suppose there's a third option, where he sent the full manuscript to a bunch of friends but sent Madness only TGO. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Sci-2 said:

Lol wut?

Anyone who claimed TGO concludes TAE didn't read any of the previous books or was lost in a drug haze while doing so.

Yeah. This is why I think Madness is lying now. I can't fathom someone thinking that this would be a good conclusion to any series. Heck, I can't fathom them thinking this is a conclusion, period. 

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