No Apples please: allergies and the (almost) adult

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Tyria,

I've never worn cologne.  You're right there is no way to justify a "need" for cologne or perfume.  I just imagine it is tough to get it off you once you have it on prior to travel.

[Theda Baratheon]

Then it isn't the basic concept and idea of having a trigger warning that's the problem it's the universities/administrators wanting to keep numbers so I think there should be less shit thrown at millennials for it. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Theda,

It's a combination of the two different factors.  Remove either and the problem is much less pronounced but both are factors.

[Dr. Pepper]

22 minutes ago, Tyria said:

My worst allergy is to perfume/cologne. I know I'll get grief for it, but ban that shit on planes (and everywhere else while yer at it!)! Justify the necessity of that shit on planes or anywhere else. I'm not talking about the people who just put a dab behind the ears type of thing. That might give me the sniffles in a confined space, but not a full blown reaction. Nothing like being on an hours long flight with your face hidden down your shirt suffering a low level asthma attack, itchy skin/eyes/throat, and full of snot just so someone can think they smell pretty. Most of it smells like flowery cat pee!

Yeah, I'd be all for dismantling and banning the fragrance industry.  I have issues with it all, the smelly candles, the overpowering cleaning supplies, the nasty perfumes and colognes.  If I'm going to be in any sort of confined space for any period of time - a plane, classroom, car - I have to take preemptive steps to prevent the allergy symptoms and, worse, the guaranteed migraine and vomiting.  

Perhaps I should start being an asshole and requesting bans on perfumes in these places.  Maybe I'll get lucky and get an empty plane to myself as there really is no good way to ban perfumes except to have people shower off the shit they already have on them and they can't exactly do that in an airport so make them miss the flight so me and my special allergy can arrive healthy.  

[Whitestripe]

33 minutes ago, Theda Baratheon said:

Then it isn't the basic concept and idea of having a trigger warning that's the problem it's the universities/administrators wanting to keep numbers so I think there should be less shit thrown at millennials for it. 

Not exactly. You hear a lot in US colleges/universities (they are essentially the same)  these days about trigger warnings, safe spaces, microaggressions, etc. The call for these accommodations is coming from students. Yes, students should feel safe on camps, but what is their responsibility? Shouldn't you be able to read a course catalogue and decided for yourself if you want to take a particular class? Can it not be assumed that say, a class on comteporary literature with Marget Atwood as required reading might include The Handmaiden's Tale? If you sign up for  a class on Race Relations in America class, you need to be prepared for some pretty heavy discussions. If you sign up for a figure drawing class, you can assume you're gonna see naked people. Professors are saying they feel like they cannot teach the way they want for fear of pushback from students when they get into the class and suddenly something  uncomfortable comes up. "You didn't warn me this book was going to have a rape scene!" 

People are afraid to say anything because they have to be so PC all the time. For example: Am I allowed to ask what country a  student worker applying for a job is from (when his name is Abbas) or will I be accused of being racist? I actually do need to know if he's an International student because I have to fill out extra paperwork. A proponent of Safe Spaces may tell me that asking a clearly Middle Eastern looking student where he's from will make him uncomfortable. It will make him feel targeted, so I should not do it.

[Theda Baratheon]

2 minutes ago, Whitestripe said:

Not exactly. You hear a lot in US colleges/universities (they are essentially the same)  these days about trigger warnings, safe spaces, microaggressions, etc. The call for these accommodations is coming from students. Yes, students should feel safe on camps, but what is their responsibility? Shouldn't you be able to read a course catalogue and decided for yourself if you want to take a particular class? Can it not be assumed that say, a class on comteporary literature with Marget Atwood as required reading might include The Handmaiden's Tale? If you sign up for  a class on Race Relations in America class, you need to be prepared for some pretty heavy discussions. If you sign up for a figure drawing class, you can assume you're gonna see naked people. Professors are saying they feel like they cannot teach the way they want for fear of pushback from students when they get into the class and suddenly something  uncomfortable comes up. "You didn't warn me this book was going to have a rape scene!" 

 

Well that's what I believe and have repeatedly said, if someone can't read a course catalogue and (with a small disclaimer) decide whether or not they want to choose a class, that's their problem, I just don't see a one sentence disclaimer as a big deal. 

I fully accept i'm not American though and really don't understand what it is like in the US so I don't really have the most informed opinion. I just think sometimes America thinks they are the only place in the world so these discussions end up very US centric which is difficult when some of us are coming from a totally different place. 

anyway, i'm sorry and won't derail your thread any further...

[Gertrude]

18 minutes ago, Whitestripe said:

For example: Am I allowed to ask what country a  student worker applying for a job is from (when his name is Abbas) or will I be accused of being racist? I actually do need to know if he's an International student because I have to fill out extra paperwork. A proponent of Safe Spaces may tell me that asking a clearly Middle Eastern looking student where he's from will make him uncomfortable. It will make him feel targeted, so I should not do it.

In this case it seems pretty simple - you should ask all applicants if they are international students as there is an actual reason to know that. Maybe Heidi who speaks impeccable English is German. I mean, I get what you're saying, but I think this is a bad example to use.

[Whitestripe]

Maybe, but it's a real life example. Abbas, actually does work for me and is from Brooklyn.  Minh, with her American accent, is Vietnamese. It most often comes up when they have to fill in the social security card number or when they have to fill out the NYS wage form (you have to check if English is your native language, and if you check no you have to put your native language down.) 

Point being, most students come in and tell me they are international students, but don't say what nation. It matters not to me what nationality they are, but if I am filling out paperwork to help them apply for a social security card, I need to know it.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I always ask people where their from International or American.  It's just a nice way to get to know people.

[Gertrude]

Whitestripe - in the case you outlined with the hypothetical Safe Space advocate, personally I'd tell the hypothetical person to shove off. Like Scot, I like to ask about people and if it's their nationality that seems interesting to me I won't hesitate to ask. If they even have an accent I'm not familiar with or an uncommon name that is interesting to me I babble away. I get the point of safe spaces and trigger warnings, etc, but as Scot said earlier, how they are used and how they should be used are quite different. Both sides have a legit point and awareness is always good.

One thing I will say that always baffles me. As Theda was saying, Millennials get the bad rep for this type of thing, but it's their parents who built the world they were raised in and influenced by. Why don't their parents get blamed for enabling this? The helicopter parents aren't millennials. Their coaches who gave out participation trophies aren't millennials. I think it's just an evolving culture that can't be blamed on any one group of people. I also think it's blown out of proportion because we get to hear about every case and anyone who wants to shout about it from their soapbox can because of the magic of the internet.

[Dr. Pepper]

Well, there's asking someone where they are from in casual polite conversation (and take people at their word, don't push with 'where are you really from' if they say massachusetts yet have an accent), and then there is looking at a brown person and specifically assuming things about them for no reason other than they are brown.  That's why in official capacities, like for work or college stuff, it's better to just ask everyone the same questions. 

[Iskaral Pust]

I agree that blame lies with the coddler rather than the coddled.  The issue is that you experience the negative effect when you interact with the coddled, while the coddler is remote and invisible.

I hear colleague peers complaining a lot about Millenials being special snowflakes who are extremely needy, and yet my experience with 20+ Millenials in our business group does not support that at all.  There's always an element of old people complaining about the kids these days, and then a few outliers - like the Oberlin stories - provide confirmation for that bias.

i read some article somewhere (vague, I know) that asserted the excessive parental  coddling of Millenials was a guilty rebound in parenting styles after the "neglect" in the 1970-80s as more moms returned to work and divorce rates were high. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

54 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Well, there's asking someone where they are from in casual polite conversation (and take people at their word, don't push with 'where are you really from' if they say massachusetts yet have an accent), and then there is looking at a brown person and specifically assuming things about them for no reason other than they are brown.  That's why in official capacities, like for work or college stuff, it's better to just ask everyone the same questions. 

Back in 2002 I went on a Caribbean cruise with my family.  Got into a conversation with an older gentleman with a strong Long Island accent.  I did ask him where he was from.  He said "Florida".  I left it at that.  Asking is okay.  Digging gets rude.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

16 hours ago, Swordfish said:

Well, I haven't heard stories about people dying from exposure to eggs, flour, etc...  

Are you suggesting the risk is equal for all of these allergies?

 

And what does it tell us?

I know children with these severe allergies.  

15 hours ago, Whitestripe said:

At first people were confused and thought it was some sort of protest against Apple technology products. Then they thought it might be part of a psychology experiment on human behavior (most of the classrooms are in the fancy new science center). After that, it's been a non-issue, really. But people did scratch their heads and say "Really?!" Of course, I'm not often over on that side of campus so I don't know if people are indeed not bringing apples. There's a cafe in that building. I don't know if they are still selling apples. 

Ok - this is funny.  

[DireWolfSpirit]

I only read the first 3 pages or so, but I would add myself to the position that this issue should fall more to individual responsibility and that a wide net of "apple free zones" is a poor policy for the campus. I dont think any argument could change my view of that either. Even if apples were life threatening for a certain student, that student isnt best served by being placed in some type of artificial environment where real life situations are ignored. They (especially by an adult age 18+) are better off understanding the equation of responsibility and consequences. I know that if I drink or even touch acid I would be severely burned. So I decided at a pretty early age to not run my hands around battery terminals out in the garage. I think I could have managed to do this even if I were to see a corroded old battery in a seat next to me as a college Freshman.

I guess I cant see the need for this ban unless for some odd reason its a secret allergy that the students family has shielded him/her from knowing about? I'm pretty sure thats not the case and the student knows not to have contact with apples (or acid presumably) and that this should fall under this students individual responsibility so they can avoid the consequence of illness, just as smearing acid on oneself would.

[Meera of Tarth]

On 20/9/2016 at 2:41 PM, Iskaral Pust said:

I'm happy to leave the trail mix in the bag, even if it is the healthiest snack available and widely sold in airports, if it might pose a risk to someone but chocolate, protein bars, yoghurt parfaits, and every other product with a warning "may contain trace amount of nuts" (probably includes pretzels) is a bit extreme, especially when the request is made after I have no opportunity to purchase an alternate snack.  

If they're really that at risk, they just walked through an airport where lots of people were munching on trail mix, yoghurt parfaits, Snickers, plain chocolate, etc.  At some point the burden of their safety shifts back to them. 

My son has a severe peanut allergy.  We are careful to manage his exposure.  I've never asked another person to stop eating a Reese's Cup near him.  It's up to us to teach our son to avoid that source of risk and not rely on others to do it for him. 

 

On 20/9/2016 at 2:47 PM, Theda Baratheon said:

If someone makes their allergy known and asks for others to respect that (the nut allergy on the plane) then i see the safety of the person (however unlikely they are to have a reaction from someone eating trail mix, I don't know) as more significant than someone simply not being able to eat their trial mix on that plane journey  

As a dried fruit allergic person, I have no problem to be next to a peanut, nut, hazelnut, etc, as I suppose the vast majority of allergic people. 

But I suppose that if that is requested on a plane it's because that particular person can really suffer dangerous consequences if he/she breathes the allergen on a plane where the air is supplied by an environmental controlled system.

I don't think it's a big deal to stop eating one's favourite snack for a few hours. Allergic people have permanently stopped eating them in their lives even if they previously liked those snacks before being diagnosed.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

12 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

 

As a dried fruit allergic person, I have no problem to be next to a peanut, nut, hazelnut, etc, as I suppose the vast majority of allergic people.

But I suppose that if that is requested on a plane it's because that particular person can really suffer dangerous consequences if he/she breathes the allergen on a plane where the air is supplied by an environmental controlled system.

I don't think it's a big deal to stop eating one's favourite snack for a few hours. Allergic people have permanently stopped eating them in their lives even if they previously liked those snacks before being diagnosed.

Again, what if this is a 12 hour flight there are no nut or dried fruit free snacks available on the aircraft and this person has to eat or suffer serious health problems?

[Meera of Tarth]

9 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Again, what if this is a 12 hour flight there are no nut or dried fruit free snacks available on the aircraft and this person has to eat or suffer serious health problems?

I'm not sure I understand your point....if the flight lasts for 12 hours the flight attendands will serve a couple of meals + at least a snack (with dried fruits or not) I think everyone will eat something in 12 hours or everyone will start feeling bad...

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Meera,

I'm asking why the onus of reponsiblity for taking care of themeselves is placed upon those who need to eat as opposed to those who suffer from allergies?

[Meera of Tarth]

17 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Meera,

I'm asking why the onus of reponsiblity for taking care of themeselves is placed upon those who need to eat as opposed to those who suffer from allergies?

But everyone will eat while flying.....

If someone can't breath that air and, at the same time, another person has to eat specifically a nut (common in flights) both things are not mutually exclusive.

As I stated before, I don't think this was requested as a caprice. I'm sure it was for medical reasons, (and brought a medical report with him/her) and considering the great amount of people that is flying on a plane, that person could have serious consequences for his/her health if everyone started eating the same. It would also be an exceptional situation.

I'm sure the other "nut lovers" could understand the situation and stop eating that type of snack for a few hours, by eating other type of snacks that are available on the plane. Not only this, but if a person needs to eat a nut to survive the flight I'm completely sure the person will tell the flight attendands his/her situation and serve the nut dose he/she needs, eating them far away from the other person.

How many times does a plane have to return to the airport or land in a nearest one because someone needs medical attention?

When I have an allergy I take an antihistamine, and the problem disappears. But I don't know of the people (I suppose a minority) who can't even breathe them, so I'm not an expert on that matter; but I suppose he/she would have to go to an hospital. I don't think that landing in another country or returning to the airport is preferable to tell the other people to please make the effort to eat any other thing.