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Rant and Rave without Repercussions [S7 Leaks Edition]

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I'm re-watching S6 and Aiden Gillen is such a bad actor, Sophie walks all over him and she is not even a great actress. His voice holds no emotion, and he always comes off as fake/cartoonish. There is so much emphasis put on Sansa and LF's relationship (books and show) but the actor makes it impossible for me to care about them. It would've been a lot better in the hands of a better actor, someone charismatic and competent. Sorry Aiden. :mellow:

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29 minutes ago, TRILOGY said:

I'm re-watching S6 and Aiden Gillen is such a bad actor, Sophie walks all over him and she is not even a great actress. His voice holds no emotion, and he always comes off as fake/cartoonish. There is so much emphasis put on Sansa and LF's relationship (books and show) but the actor makes it impossible for me to care about them. It would've been a lot better in the hands of a better actor, someone charismatic and competent. Sorry Aiden. :mellow:

I agree with this. A lot of viewers love him, but I've never been a fan of his performance.

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12 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Can you explain this further? I know nothing about it.

 

Quote

Luckily they ran out of filming time, since Umbers turn on Ramsay would be lamest thing to do. After they bring Rickon to Ramsay and killed his Shaggydog, no reason and logic this Smalljon would've betrayed Ramsay.

Well, part of the theory is that in the original version they didn't really kill Shaggydog or betray Rickon, but they filmed that as pickup shots, edited in retroactively.

Edited by The Dragon Demands

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13 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

The leaks sound plausible and not particularly Earth-shattering.

We've seen Benioff raving before that "Cersei's one redeeming quality is that she loves her children" (NO, she does not in the books, she's a god-damned narcissist) and that now we'll see Cersei "Free of that" in Season 7.  The leaks make it sound like, tonally, she's actually book-Cersei now.  With Tommen dead she just stops pretending.  

Though of course....as I've said....the TV show writers openly admitted they put in scenes of Cersei actually caring about her children basically to show off that Lena Headey can emote "motherly".  They depicted her as really caring about Tommen.

And the leaks, broadly, say that she's resentful of Tommen now - his suicide was a moment of rebellion & rejection that abandoned her (the ultimate "I'll have no part of this").

And you can almost see that but.......basically they're shifting to writing her as book-Cersei (good) so drastically that the transition may seem random (bad).....just as we had "sympathetic Cersei" suddenly blowing up the Great Sept.

But this is to be expected.

Arya parts seem pleasant enough.  Debate on this.  Some wonder what the fate of all the Freys will be in the novels.  I don't know.  Rumor is Arya will poison all the men or something but spare the women.  Now in the books that would be 'Kill everyone from wife one through four, but no child over the age of ten" or something.  Maybe this is just their shorthand way of dealing with that, I don't know if I can blame that (the TV show at least never introduced younger male Freys who were good, unlike the books).  So whatever

Sandor travels with BWB.  Seems pleasant. 

Rumblings of Euron proposing marriage-alliance to Cersei.  After "The Forsaken" this seems plausible enough.

Really the only part that jumped out at people is the North:

As we've heard from multiple sources, general idea is that Sansa wants to punish Houses that didn't turn on the Boltons (i.e. we know Alys Karstark, their version of her, has been cast). 

Obviously all of this is screwed up by the fact that the Umbers WOULD have turned on the Boltons in the original lost ending of the Battle of the Bastards, but they hid their failure by editing around it once they ran out of time. 

But even in book-universe, I can generally see, yeah - how far do we punish?  Even Stannis is going "look I don't think Arnolf Karstark's serjeants knew what he was doing, it would be a waste to execute them". 

Jon meanwhile urges that they need every  hand to hold a sword they possibly can, with the White Walkers coming, so they need to stick together with so many external enemies and he pardons the survivors. 

To be honest, on a broad level, in and of itself and on paper this isn't the worst setup....but it feels like D&D will use it to pontificate "Wow, look how great Jon is!" -- hey, maybe I just worry because they stupidly ran out of book dialogue by going too fast. 

But anyway, given what happened last season with all its shortfalls, none of this strikes me as particularly unusual....yet.

The one thing worrying people is the leaks say that in private, Sansa argues with Jon; he's annoyed he openly questioned her, she insists that showing mercy is bad.....by saying that being honor-bound got Ned and Robb killed. 

.....we ourselves say this.  Ned showed mercy to Cersei and Joffrey and they repaid him with death.  Even though TV-Robb's Jeyne Westerling plot was gutted, at least the other point remains - kind of more relevant to this sequence - that the whole reason the Karstarks turned on Robb is because he felt honor-bound to execute Lord Rickard after he killed unarmed boy prisoners without his permission. 

So IN PRINCIPLE, this isn't even wrong.

But given all we've seen of "angry bitter crazy Sansa" who D&D nonetheless think we're honestly supposed to be sympathizing with (it isn't "a character" anymore it's just "Sophie Turner mugging for the camera")......I fear that...TONALLY it will come off wrong.  That once again this isn't just Sansa being "brutally honest" but "Sansa would never 'reject' Ned and Robb this way". 

So I'm sorry if I'm going for a measured response here......but that's the question:  on paper Sansa pointing out that mercy and honor got Ned and Robb killed is correct.  But is this yet more of D&D making no attempt at coherent Sansa characterization?

I also predict they're going to be pandering Lyanna Mormont until we hate her as much as we did Olly (remember when we kind of liked Olly in Season 4?)

 

Okay, I have to admit you have put forth probably the most plausible take on some parts of the leaks that I have read. Although I think for me they rise out of some previous serious mistakes, so are still fundamentally flawed lol. And I can't get past the Euron stuff, wight hunt, Jon=Aegon, Gilly magical librarian, and of course boatsex lol.

What do you make of counterleaks that suggest the big twist will be Sansa dead and Littlefinger surviving? Sounds equally likely in some ways given D&D SOP. Although like another poster pointed out, I also don't think Aiden gives nearly as good 'face' as other actors. Does Sansa have the edge simply because the actress is a beautiful young woman and that matters to D&D? 

I already hate Lyanna Mormont and I never liked Olly, he was so obviously the betrayer. I am rather desperate for a show Northerner to care about lol, nobody so far appeals to me.

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How dumb it is to make it seem like theres always been a big ass throne on Dragonstone just because Dany is going there now.

EDIT: Unless they make her one. But even then thats dumb because, you're clearly spending more money on Dragonstone now because a different character is there

Edited by The Bear Who Knocks

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Here, in rant and rave, I must confess that I find myself excited for Sunday evening and the start of this season.  Even with any awful writing, and the ruin of characters, I am still looking forward to how the show proceeds, and ultimately concludes. Do I prefer that it ended by GRRM?  Absolutely, but this is what there is so I will take it. 

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21 minutes ago, divica said:

I was watching a rerun of s1 and the plots, dialogues and twists are so different from s5 and 6

 

Yeah, it actually hurts a bit watching season one episodes now. It was still book then, and it was good. Season 1 got me on to the books. It was a good time.

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18 minutes ago, Regular John Umber said:

 

Yeah, it actually hurts a bit watching season one episodes now. It was still book then, and it was good. Season 1 got me on to the books. It was a good time.

For me it was the same. Although in the beguining some actors seem rather bad I think it was brillant. 

Now I try to compare s1 with the scenes of jon and sansa trying to rally the north and I want to cry... how they made the characters have split personalities...

How danny became a 1 dimensional character, how jon became a mute that only knows how to fight, how sansa is always changing her opinions and doing illogic things... they ruined got

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I wouldn't say I'm excited for the new season, more curious enough to want to see how things unfold.

I expect there might be little nuggets of enjoyment in the midst of all the tripe. Not that I'm judging it without having seen it. There might be no nuggets of enjoyment at all :P

At this point in the show, I think the only character fit to rule is Beric Dondarrion. All hail the Lightning King, champion of the smallfolk! (cue heroic death)

 

1 hour ago, divica said:

I was watching a rerun of s1 and the plots, dialogues and twists are so different from s5 and 6

That's because it had a stimulating plot driven by discernible and consistent character motives with interesting mysteries and a realistic sense of cause-and-effect.

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30 minutes ago, Dolorous Gabe said:

I expect there might be little nuggets of enjoyment in the midst of all the tripe.

 

 Season 6 had the tower of joy. I really enjoyed that, even though it wasn't 100% as in the book. It was still book though. They didn't have to come up with idiot side characters, bad motivations, and tragic dialogue.

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16 minutes ago, Regular John Umber said:

Season 6 had the tower of joy. I really enjoyed that, even though it wasn't 100% as in the book. It was still book though. They didn't have to come up with idiot side characters, bad motivations, and tragic dialogue.

It was okay. It took a completely unnecessary swipe at Ned though in its handling of the Arthur Dayne fight, revealing that the story Ned often told of it to Bran (and presumably everyone else) didn't include the fact that Howland Reed saved his life. And the dual-sword thing was ludicrous.

Also, the use of Bran and Bloodraven as an exposition vehicle for telling the TOJ story was arguably unfair to both Bran and Bloodraven.

But yes, it was certainly one of the less problematic sequences of S6.

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I guess he missed the HBO infographic...

"It's important to say at the moment that it looks clear that this fan theory is going to come true, but we don't know that yet," he says. "We know Lyanna Stark is his mother, but we don't know who his father is for sure yet. But when I read all of that, I was very excited by it. There's obviously been this mystery for him for many seasons and many years. I love that he doesn't know about it. We all know about it, but he's completely in the dark about it. As far as he knows, he's still the illegitimate child of Ned Stark and some southern woman somewhere. That's all he thinks."

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-season-7-kit-harington-interview-1020155?utm_source=twitter

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3 hours ago, Dolorous Gabe said:

At this point in the show, I think the only character fit to rule is Beric Dondarrion. All hail the Lightning King, champion of the smallfolk! (cue heroic death)

And he's dead in the books! :lol:

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There is a small part of me that still holding out hope that once we get to the climatic resolution part. We'll actually end up with something decent on the screen because it will mostly be based on the climax that GRRM had in mind.   That  since GRRM gave them very little details on how to get there, season 5 and 6 we have been witnessing D&D's ineptness at getting the pieces into the right place for the climax.   But Season 7 and  8 maybe we get past that and actually have a decent climax.

Of course we still will have to put up with D&D anachronistic dialogue,etc.

 

 

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23 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Well, part of the theory is that in the original version they didn't really kill Shaggydog or betray Rickon, but they filmed that as pickup shots, edited in retroactively.

Before S6, I felt like Sansa's story was peaking meaning she was headed toward being killed off.  Instead we got a dead Rickon which - to be fair wasn't a character in the show so they felt they could get away with killing him but, ...it still didn't seem necessary.

Maybe in S7 I will eat crow, I'm very interested in Sansa and Arya interacting.  No idea what, if any, storyline Sansa would have in S8.  After LF, her time in the story is over.  Bran is Lord of Winterfell.  Jon will sit the Iron Throne.  Maybe.....she....does....get....back...with....Tyrion.  Their wedding was the whole climax of KL in season 3.  Ugh, who knows.

Edited by Zombies That Were Promised

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Sansa should become the Lady of the Vale, but they've made The Vale even less a thing on the show than Dorne or Iron Islands.  I was really disappointed some extra was the first face of the KoTV in 6x09 instead of Sweetrobin.  You hear he's training, then you don't see him.  It would've been hilariously perfect.  The whole audience would have got a real kick out of that.

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20 hours ago, The Bear Who Knocks said:

How dumb it is to make it seem like theres always been a big ass throne on Dragonstone just because Dany is going there now.

EDIT: Unless they make her one. But even then thats dumb because, you're clearly spending more money on Dragonstone now because a different character is there

People say they love the Dragonstone throne room, but I think the design team failed here. I don't think the idea is that Dany's followers made it for her. I think the idea is that the throne was created by the first Targs that built Dragonstone. However, the throne is impossibly small to imagine that it once sat Aegon the conqueror. I think the show specifically designed it to fit Emilia's stature. I guess so she wouldn't look like a child in an adult chair? However, she looks like a child in a child's chair to me. That design is just awful. 

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18 minutes ago, Zombies That Were Promised said:

Sansa should become the Lady of the Vale, but they've made The Vale even less a thing on the show than Dorne or Iron Islands.  I was really disappointed some extra was the first face of the KoTV in 6x09 instead of Sweetrobin.  You hear he's training, then you don't see him.  It would've been hilariously perfect.  The whole audience would have got a real kick out of that.

If sansa had her own arc in the vale maybe she wouldn t have ruined jon arc last season. Between his revival, bob and fading into the background it was an awfull seson for him and a split personality disorder for sansa...

Anyway, maybe the leaks she is killed are true

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1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

And he's dead in the books! :lol:

Well, they had to keep him alive in the show, because otherwise Michelle Fairly would have to play a zombie and that would be just a waste of a good actress. Because she obviously wasn't wasted in the show as it is, and she'd probably hate so much to play a zombie. It's much better to have Beric argue with Sandor about how many bandits is he allowed to hang personally.

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