Spaßvogel Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I just wonder if whatever wiped out the protomolecule society will come back if the Laconia fleet is using it to produce tech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 The thing about the belters being left to die that wasn't realistic: 95+% of Earth's population is dead weight doing nothing living off the government. Those people could easily be left to die, yet they aren't. There is no reason to think Earth and Mars would do that to the belt either. Which means that the talk of "extinction level" event are ridiculous, which makes any of the weak justifications for killing 30 billion people on earth just ridiculous. I did really like the book overall. I thought the space battles were great, which I normally don't like. I loved using multiple POVs. The idea of putting Pa in charge of the belters is ridiculous though. She's a terrible judge of character and a complete mercenary. She's also extremely radical belter, and not somebody that the inners would be able to trust they could work with. She is not a Fred Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 Finished up a few days ago. Not sure where I'd put this on my spectrum for the series. I really enjoyed it, but its hard to rank for me as it feels like the concluding portion of Nemesis Games. As we discussed before, the first four books all featured essentially self-contained stories. The ending of NG with essentially an unresolved cliffhanger makes me think of these two books as a pair. That makes it hard to rank them in with the first four to me. If that makes any sense. Overall, it was another great read with typical solid writing from the pair. I'll echo the sentiments of other readers who really loved the 3 on 1 battle between the Roci and the wolfpack. Bobbie's rail gun acrobatics made for some exciting reading. Another favorite scene I've already seen mentioned was Dawes as Kingmaker. I especially like how it was structured with the closing strength argument of each section being the opening weakness in the next. Again liked the visualization of the breakdown at the quantum level as the ships go through the gates with the addition of the something sinister and dark coming at them. Am looking forward to Persepolis Rising and finding out what's going on out at Laconia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Barger Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Sorry if this is the wrong place for such a question, but I bought the first three books online (really enjoying Leviathan Wakes 100 pgs in), but they shipped me the UK versions. Is it safe to assume they are exactly the same as the u.s version or are there subtle changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 2 hours ago, Rhom said: Another favorite scene I've already seen mentioned was Dawes as Kingmaker. I especially like how it was structured with the closing strength argument of each section being the opening weakness in the next. One minor thing I spotted there - it seems that one of the people he was convincing was using singular they pronouns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Maltaran said: One minor thing I spotted there - it seems that one of the people he was convincing was using singular they pronouns. Belter jargon and syntax is kind of all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Belter jargon and syntax is kind of all over the place. Esa coyo thing, sa sa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 4 minutes ago, Rhom said: Esa coyo thing, sa sa? WORD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Oop North Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Honestly, as much as I enjoyed this book, it was a bit of a disappointment. I found it really, really hard to buy into Earth's response to the disaster. What happened to all the Earthers who have been oppressing the Belters for generations? Surely there would have been more Earthers calling for All Out War on every station from Ceres to Saturn. There were other things as well, which are harder to put my finger on, but the disaster on Earth is such a huge event that not addressing the response adequately was rather glaring. On the flip side, it did a lot of things well. The action sequences were great, especially the chase of the Rocinante. There were also some great character moments for the crew of the Roci near the end. The insight into Marcus was also really interesting and made him a bit more than a mustache twirling evil overlord. Overall, it was a good book, but definitely not the best in the series. Felt more like an epilogue to Nemesis Games than a stand-alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamjm Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 I finished this earlier the week. I did enjoy it a lot, but not without some reservations. I'd agree with what LoON said above that people seem insufficiently angry about what happened to Earth in the previous book. I think Holden's suggestion of giving the Belters a niche in society where they would be needed and that Earth should avoid taking vengeance does seem like the right approach, but I'm not sure I really believe that everyone would go along with it especially when so much of the background of the series is based on Earth not caring about what happens to the Belters. Perhaps Avasarala is pragmatic enough to put her feelings aside and try to break the cycle of violence but I don't see her bringing the rest of the Earth along with her. It also seemed too forgiving of Michio Pa to give her such a key role. I can understand giving her an amnesty because they needed her ships, but I'd have thought someone from the non-Free Navy OPA factions would have been a better choice to head it. I'm not sure the book would have been better to read if it had spent more time on the horror of what was happening on Earth or if the characters had been more traumatised by it, but it might have felt a bit more realistic. On the plus side, there was a lot of great scenes in it. The Rocinante taking on the three Free Navy warships was probably the best space battle in the series, and the bittersweet ending where they turn from a moment of triumph to realising what has happened to Fred was very well done. I liked the strategy behind capturing Medina Station and their final victory over Marcos managed to avoid feeling like a deus-ex-machina due to them having been building up the question of why ships are being eaten by the gates for the last two books. I also really liked Prax's mild act of rebellion and the scene where his confession is so complex that the Free Navy don't even realise he has confessed was probably the funniest moment of the book. I also liked the little SF references, such as Holden trying to get the 'Spacing Guild' name to stick or the Martian Navy having a ship called the Mark Watney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Also funny was Holden's Humans of New York style YouTube project as a hobby when everyone else keeps the Roci afloat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 On 12/23/2016 at 1:12 PM, Lord Barger said: Sorry if this is the wrong place for such a question, but I bought the first three books online (really enjoying Leviathan Wakes 100 pgs in), but they shipped me the UK versions. Is it safe to assume they are exactly the same as the u.s version or are there subtle changes? I don't know of anyone who has read both versions, but we've discussed these here extensively and I've never seen a difference noted by the British and American posters. I'm fairly confident you'll have the usual color/colour type differences, but not more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Just finished. Agree with most sentiments here. Overall enjoyed book. One thing I don't understand and haven't seen mentioned yet: 15 colonies coordinate some an attack through the gates at Medina Station, which the rail guns fended off. This attack seemed the main point of the Medina OPA POVs, since they didn't factor into the Holden attack or after. But when Naomi and Holden take over the records on Medina station there is no mention of this event. In fact the point is made that most of the colony worlds weren't even aware of the OPA and Martian takeover and had no idea why the supplies weren't getting through. So what's up with that? The 15 colonies really coordinated with some spy on Medina? Even though our POV character thought it was a scapegoat? Or more going on here tied either to the aliens or Duarte? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 On 12/23/2016 at 4:18 PM, williamjm said: I also really liked Prax's mild act of rebellion and the scene where his confession is so complex that the Free Navy don't even realise he has confessed was probably the funniest moment of the book. Just read that scene this morning. Pure Gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 2 hours ago, unJon said: Just finished. Agree with most sentiments here. Overall enjoyed book. One thing I don't understand and haven't seen mentioned yet: 15 colonies coordinate some an attack through the gates at Medina Station, which the rail guns fended off. This attack seemed the main point of the Medina OPA POVs, since they didn't factor into the Holden attack or after. But when Naomi and Holden take over the records on Medina station there is no mention of this event. In fact the point is made that most of the colony worlds weren't even aware of the OPA and Martian takeover and had no idea why the supplies weren't getting through. So what's up with that? The 15 colonies really coordinated with some spy on Medina? Even though our POV character thought it was a scapegoat? Or more going on here tied either to the aliens or Duarte? I did wonder about that. There was no mention of a mole after the takeover, so I do wonder if there will be any connection revealed in the future. Could just be that the scene was set up to demonstrate the effectiveness of the rail guns and make the eventual take over by our heroes seem even more against all odds. Speaking of Naomi... she is convinced that Filip was on the ship that she doomed to the ring gate. I wonder if Filip Nagata is going to disappear into history, or if she will ever have a reunion with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 I don't recall an attack on Medina from the colonies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 29 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I don't recall an attack on Medina from the colonies. Eh, it's in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I don't recall an attack on Medina from the colonies. A bunch of ships came through the gate one after the next, and all were cored by the Rail Guns. This happened right before Free Navy Loyalists were interrogating a crewman for missing a shift. I'm guessing that was the mole everyone is mentioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 How could 15 colonies corrodinate an attack on Medina? They'd have to route their communications through Medina to corrodinate the attack, wouldn't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: How could 15 colonies corrodinate an attack on Medina? They'd have to route their communications through Medina to corrodinate the attack, wouldn't they? That was the plot point, yes. The Free Navy reach this conclusion and start interrogating people to find the mole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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