U.S. Politics: Feelings Trump Facts

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Altherion said:

I have no problem with balking at the appointment of Sessions; I was merely annoyed that it was being done in such hyperbolic and categorical terms. It's not surprising given that hyperbole was a staple of the anti-Trump campaign propaganda, but I was hoping that the people doing it would have realized the futility and ineffectiveness of this tactic by now. It looks like I was overly optimistic.

And why was the criticism of Session "hyperbolic? I'm not seeing it? Because it involved usage of a term that implies some theory of history you find problematic? It's like you argued very hard to make a very minor technical point, without addressing the substantive issues around Session's appointment.

And, also, despite your claim that "hyperbole was a staple of anti-Trump campaign propaganda", the fact of the matter is that there are serious substantive issues to criticize Trump with and the party he leads. A lot of stuff he has done or said, or intends to do, deserve serious criticism.

[Martell Spy]

 

Quote

 

No, not liberal democracy -- merely the patchwork of positive and negative discrimination based on race, class and gender. It's a utopian ideal. If you were advocating for Sessions with the same intensity as that article advocates against him, then yes, I would tell you similar. This is not about which side of history or justice or whatever, it's about power. Speaking in hyperbolic terms is useful for propaganda, but I would rather not have a conversation with somebody talking like that.

And yes, the same goes for calling politicians names. It just lowers he level of the discourse.

 

 

 

Again, you are distracting by focusing on the article's title. If you want to argue that Sessions isn't a terrible pick then go ahead and do so. Tell us all his positives. You're basically waving your hands and saying "it's all the same", "none of it matters." It does matter. Sessions has a record and there are things he will do with this position of power. And I suppose in couple of years you will be in here defending those actions. And of course you will be claiming you are you are not defending his actions at the same time. Which is your usual mode of operation.

[Dr. Pepper]

40 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I just want to be clear I'm not a cheerleader for Trump.  Trump sucks.  He's sucked for years.  My point is only that despite his high levels of suckitude he is human and I don't support dehumanizing anyone.

Not everything is about you, Scot, much as you seem to want it to be.  

ETA: Wait, unless you're also Altherion?  Then yeah ok it was definitely about you.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Pepper said:

Not everything is about you, Scot, much as you seem to want it to be.  

ETA: Wait, unless you're also Altherion?  Then yeah ok it was definitely about you.

I'm not Altherion, but, looking back I'm not the only person who suspected your comment included me.

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, Martell Spy said:

 You're basically waving your hands and saying "it's all the same", "none of it matters."

This kind of thing, I take serious issue with.

[LongRider]

17 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

And I suppose in couple of years you will be in here defending those actions. And of course you will be claiming you are you are not defending his actions at the same time.

Nailed it!  

[Dr. Pepper]

39 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I'm not Altherion, but, looking back I'm not the only person who suspected your comment included me.

I basically regurgitated the exact words that Altherion used, so that sounds like a reading comp problem for you and the other.  

Your sincere concern for a powerful white thing man is duly noted.  I mean, I'm just a queer disabled woman of color in a relationship with a trans woman.  All my kids are typically racial minorities and from extremely poor backgrounds.  That Orange Shit Thing Human you are sooooooo concerned about has pledged that his first 100 days in office will include all sorts of things specifically designed to fuck over our lives as much as possible.  He's supported by a GOP party who will start first with slashing women's health care and moving on to slashing health care in general, a move that will disproportionately affect poor women of color.  And these are only things I'm mad about/feel powerless about today.  It promises to get worse from there for millions of us, and that shit stain and his supporters are GLEEFUL about it.  

So while The Orange Shit Thing's cheerleaders are yapping about how awesome all of this, Mr. Concern Troll is Concerned about....a bit of punch up name-calling for a ridiculously powerful white man who is soon to be president.  Are you for real?  Try to imagine yourself walking in someone else's shoes.  I don't mean that literally, Scot.  It's a figure of speech.  

[mormont]

1 hour ago, Altherion said:

 It's not surprising given that hyperbole was a staple of the anti-Trump campaign propaganda

Hyperbole is also *the* staple of pro-Trump propaganda - in fact, it was the basis of every utterance by the candidate and his campaign and remains his and his transition team's default mode to a much greater degree than any one who has opposed him. It's Trump's defining characteristic.

Tell us again how futile and ineffective hyperbole is?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Dr.P,

I'll work on my reading comprehension in the future.  

[publius]

The one thing that I notice is that Trump will write a tweet that can’t possibly take him longer than 10 seconds to type out, and the media will obsess about it for weeks. In the meantime he’s making appointments that are not nearly as juicy as his Twitterfeed, but will impact everyone quite possibly for a generation or longer.

With that being said, who cares if he uses scotch tape on his tie or if he misspells a word on Twitter. That stuff means nothing, and furthermore people are just going to tune you out. Just like people tuned conservatives out because even though there were things that Obama did that justified criticizing no one listened because they nitpicked everything about him...

[karaddin]

1 hour ago, Dr. Pepper said:

I basically regurgitated the exact words that Altherion used, so that sounds like a reading comp problem for you and the other.  

Your sincere concern for a powerful white thing man is duly noted.  I mean, I'm just a queer disabled woman of color in a relationship with a trans woman.  All my kids are typically racial minorities and from extremely poor backgrounds.  That Orange Shit Thing Human you are sooooooo concerned about has pledged that his first 100 days in office will include all sorts of things specifically designed to fuck over our lives as much as possible.  He's supported by a GOP party who will start first with slashing women's health care and moving on to slashing health care in general, a move that will disproportionately affect poor women of color.  And these are only things I'm mad about/feel powerless about today.  It promises to get worse from there for millions of us, and that shit stain and his supporters are GLEEFUL about it.  

So while The Orange Shit Thing's cheerleaders are yapping about how awesome all of this, Mr. Concern Troll is Concerned about....a bit of punch up name-calling for a ridiculously powerful white man who is soon to be president.  Are you for real?  Try to imagine yourself walking in someone else's shoes.  I don't mean that literally, Scot.  It's a figure of speech.  

I generally have concerns about depersonalisation of people (like abusive husbands - no 'real mean' would do that etc) being used to excuse most people from examining their own behaviour, but I really don't think that concern is remotely applicable with calling Trump names. I've got more than enough fear on behalf of you and all my other friends in similarly dangerous circumstances with what is going on, the reality of being in it must be so much worse. Your fears are entirely rational and reasonable, its fucking terrifying <3

[OldGimletEye]

Trump is a bully. And it isn't always the case that bullies can be reasoned with. Sometimes, you've got to get tough on bullies. So, I'm hardly going to cry my eyes out, when Trump gets called a few choice names.

[Rippounet]

A guilty pleasure: someone has been rewriting Trump's tweets to make them more presidential: http://9gag.com/gag/aqrwX7Y

[LongRider]

14 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

A guilty pleasure: someone has been rewriting Trump's tweets to make them more presidential: http://9gag.com/gag/aqrwX7Y

Reading PresidentalTrump's tweets make me weep.  Such a difference between the two. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 hours ago, Rippounet said:

A guilty pleasure: someone has been rewriting Trump's tweets to make them more presidential: http://9gag.com/gag/aqrwX7Y

Those are great. Me am prefer Bizzaro Trump.

[DireWolfSpirit]

7 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

It's always so cute when the Orange Shit Thing cheerleaders accuse decent folks of lowering the level of discourse.  Especially when it's immediately followed by them saying that we ought to do away with protections for disenfranchised groups.

I wanted to chime in with the strongest possible "HALLELUJAH!!!" to this. 

When you call this alleged President elect an orange shit stain, you are speaking for millions, that not only support you, we cheer you. Never, ever, ever stop. He has earned, and deserves every letter of that moniker.

[Altherion]

6 hours ago, mormont said:

Hyperbole is also *the* staple of pro-Trump propaganda - in fact, it was the basis of every utterance by the candidate and his campaign and remains his and his transition team's default mode to a much greater degree than any one who has opposed him. It's Trump's defining characteristic.

Tell us again how futile and ineffective hyperbole is?

Obviously, just as with any other common propaganda tactic, hyperbole is not universally ineffective -- it can be quite potent when used properly (as, for example, the Trump campaign used it). The way the anti-Trump people use it (i.e. attempting to cast Trump and his supporters as exceptionally bad in various ways) didn't work then and it's unlikely to work now.

[mormont]

2 hours ago, Altherion said:

Obviously, just as with any other common propaganda tactic, hyperbole is not universally ineffective -- it can be quite potent when used properly (as, for example, the Trump campaign used it). The way the anti-Trump people use it (i.e. attempting to cast Trump and his supporters as exceptionally bad in various ways) didn't work then and it's unlikely to work now.

You never seem shy about making Donald an exception to the rules.

[Altherion]

37 minutes ago, mormont said:

You never seem shy about making Donald an exception to the rules.

This is hardly an exception: there are ways to use propaganda well and ways to use it poorly. Trump happens to use it well enough to get things done, though of course he is far from exceptional in this regard (the 2008 Obama campaign was much better -- I half believed them myself).

That said, many of Trump's methods are certainly exceptional by modern standards; I hope you will agree with me on that much.

[mormont]

3 minutes ago, Altherion said:

This is hardly an exception: there are ways to use propaganda well and ways to use it poorly. Trump happens to use it well enough to get things done, though of course he is far from exceptional in this regard (the 2008 Obama campaign was much better -- I half believed them myself).

That said, many of Trump's methods are certainly exceptional by modern standards; I hope you will agree with me on that much.

You've admitted that in fact, hyperbole isn't futile and ineffective, so we're in agreement on that much. Your insight appears to be limited to saying that just like anything else, it's effective when it's effective and it's not when it's not.