Werthead Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 20 hours ago, Calibandar said: Has anyone here actually read the Witchwood Crown? Thoughts? It is typical Williams, so slower-paced than most epic fantasy, but quite a lot happens as the story picks up. It's also comfortably superior to Shadowmarch on ever level. If you liked MS&T you'll like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valandil Posted April 24, 2018 Share Posted April 24, 2018 Very much enjoyed it. He slipped back into the Osten Ard style very easily, which I thought might be difficult for him after all this time and the diverse output he has had since last he was there, but he did it convincingly. Some interesting well realised new characters, some great old ones. Perhaps a little disappointed in the character of seoman who seems unchanged and to have had very little maturation or emotional development despite being a veteran ruler and grandfather when we meet him. Perhaps you might say the norn’s have been too “humanised” as it were in more ways than one. They seemed to me in the original series unutterably evil and alien, but given some povs in this book and thowwl they are almost indistinguishable from the human POVs which takes from the mystique a bit. But that’s a quibble as I very much enjoyed these self same POVs. Some great twists in there too that I didn’t see coming. Vastly superior to 95% of what calls itself fantasy today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Patrek Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 On 22/04/2018 at 5:40 PM, Calibandar said: Has anyone here actually read the Witchwood Crown? Thoughts? Yeah, the biggest SFF disappointment of 2017 for me. . . http://fantasyhotlist.blogspot.ca/2017/05/the-witchwood-crown.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuenjato Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Lord Patrek said: Yeah, the biggest SFF disappointment of 2017 for me. . . http://fantasyhotlist.blogspot.ca/2017/05/the-witchwood-crown.html I agree with Pat. Felt second-rate compared to the many novels that explore similar dynamics from the past twenty years. I will say the writing itself was pretty good, and much, much, MUCH better than The Heart that Was Lost, which I could barely finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 I have yet to get it to it since I had eye surgery complications in the middle of my reread of MS&T, but opinions seem to be split. hmmm I should do my green angel tower reread soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted April 30, 2018 Author Share Posted April 30, 2018 I liked “The Witchwood Crown” but it felt like a long novel length introduction. It, which is typically fir Tad Williams, is a very slow burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maia Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 On 24.4.2018 at 3:41 PM, Valandil said: Perhaps you might say the norn’s have been too “humanised” as it were in more ways than one. They seemed to me in the original series unutterably evil and alien, but given some povs in this book and thowwl they are almost indistinguishable from the human POVs which takes from the mystique a bit. Yea, this was the deal-breaker for me in "The Heart of What Was Lost", because one of the main reasons why I loved the first trilogy was the convincing alienness of the Sithi and the Norns. All too often in SF and fantasy, sapient aliens are just like humans and it always seemed like such a failure of imagination to me. Norns didn't seem unutterably evil to me there, BTW, as they had pretty understandable motive to be hostile to the humans and the Sithi. In fact, any long-lived species that had to co-exist with humans would have had perfectly logical justification for wanting to get rid of us, since humans as a species just can't keep to any long-term agreements in the face their greed. Ahem. But Norns in THoWWL felt like a standard Dying Ancient Civilzation (tm) from the central casting to me. Also, if they had to subsist on lichens et al., how on Ard could they afford to keep human slaves?! Why would they even want to? And, and, and... Anyway, I don't care about Williams's books being "slow", but given that I didn't really like his output since The War of The Flowers and found THoWWL disappointing to boot, I am taking a pass on the new trilogy. I have waited for return to the Osten Ard for a long time, but I guess that Tad Williams was right in his reluctance to tackle it. Even after 2 decades hiatus, he seems out of fresh ideas for this setting - the somewhat cliched conclusion of TGAT should have been a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jussi Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 May 2019 is the release date for Empire of Grass: https://www.tadwilliams.com/2018/05/empire-of-grass/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 On 5/1/2018 at 2:48 PM, Maia said: Yea, this was the deal-breaker for me in "The Heart of What Was Lost", because one of the main reasons why I loved the first trilogy was the convincing alienness of the Sithi and the Norns. All too often in SF and fantasy, sapient aliens are just like humans and it always seemed like such a failure of imagination to me. Norns didn't seem unutterably evil to me there, BTW, as they had pretty understandable motive to be hostile to the humans and the Sithi. In fact, any long-lived species that had to co-exist with humans would have had perfectly logical justification for wanting to get rid of us, since humans as a species just can't keep to any long-term agreements in the face their greed. Ahem. But Norns in THoWWL felt like a standard Dying Ancient Civilzation (tm) from the central casting to me. Also, if they had to subsist on lichens et al., how on Ard could they afford to keep human slaves?! Why would they even want to? And, and, and... Nornish society still seems sufficiently strange (and appalling) to interest me in both the Heart of What Was Lost, and the Witchwood Crown. I like the Nornish chapters the best, overall. That said, the sympathy I felt for the Norns, in THOWWL, has largely dissipated in the next book, due to their blind arrogance, the endless backstabbing among their leaders, and their cruelty to other races. Their problems are so obviously their own damned fault. Overall, I enjoyed the first book, and am enjoying the second (currently on page 494). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 On 6/19/2018 at 5:18 AM, SeanF said: Nornish society still seems sufficiently strange (and appalling) to interest me in both the Heart of What Was Lost, and the Witchwood Crown. I like the Nornish chapters the best, overall. That said, the sympathy I felt for the Norns, in THOWWL, has largely dissipated in the next book, due to their blind arrogance, the endless backstabbing among their leaders, and their cruelty to other races. Their problems are so obviously their own damned fault. Overall, I enjoyed the first book, and am enjoying the second (currently on page 494). You have a copy of Empire of Grass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiriki Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 On 6/21/2018 at 9:39 AM, Ser Scot A Ellison said: You have a copy of Empire of Grass? I'm pretty sure Sean is talking about The Witchwood Crown as the second book (The Heart of What Was Lost being first). Very few people have seen the manuscript for Empire of Grass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 10 hours ago, Jiriki said: I'm pretty sure Sean is talking about The Witchwood Crown as the second book (The Heart of What Was Lost being first). Very few people have seen the manuscript for Empire of Grass. That makes more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 51 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: That makes more sense. Yes, The Last King of Ostern Ard was the second book I was referring to. I found it a good read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiriki Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 5 hours ago, SeanF said: Yes, The Last King of Ostern Ard was the second book I was referring to. I found it a good read. Me too. It's a sequel I'd been waiting for for 30 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 On 8/14/2018 at 1:05 PM, SeanF said: Yes, The Last King of Ostern Ard was the second book I was referring to. I found it a good read. The Last King of Osten Ard is the name of the trilogy of which The Witchwood Crown is the first book. The Heart of What Was Lost is not part of this series, but is a bridging book between MS&T and the new trilogy. It can be a tad confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylvs Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 On 6/21/2018 at 6:39 PM, Ser Scot A Ellison said: You have a copy of Empire of Grass? I do. It's great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 24, 2018 Author Share Posted August 24, 2018 1 minute ago, ylvs said: I do. It's great. Oh, lucky duck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylvs Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 I know. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Patrek Posted September 25, 2018 Share Posted September 25, 2018 Cover art and blurb for Empire of Grass here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Stunning cover it must be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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