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Lady Fevre Dream

[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

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3 minutes ago, TywinBestCharacter said:

Yeah... remember when these two were dangerous, highly skilled players of the game? Now they're reduced to Tyrion's comedy buddy/ mustache-twirling villain. 

Yes, Villainy without a purpose lol

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19 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said:

Alfie Allen is amazing but to be fair to Kit and Emilia it's not like they're being given much to work with despite the fact it should be obvious by now that they need that extra nudge of closer direction/better material. The show is basically asking them to convey an explosive romance entirely through stares and talk about politics. It's basically like the Star Wars prequels, but with even less personal moments between the characters 'falling in love'. I don't think that Jon has shared *any* personal information with Dany at all.

Haha. If Jon starts telling Dany about how he doesn't like sand then there will be something really off the rails.

And I agree. The writing is atrocious, so they don't have much to work with. But even their facial expressions and scenes without dialogue are weak. Characters can express more with little to no dialogue. Take this scene from The Office. 20 seconds is all you need to see how the characters feel.

Instead, we get Dany deadpanning him most of the time with no idea what the hell we're supposed to feel. Plus, I have never seen a less sexy sex scene than theirs.

 

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Why won't this board approve my attempts at making a thread criticizing the character assasination of Jon? 

 

I think this is well worth discussing 

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1 hour ago, David Selig said:

I really cracked up when Tyrion attempted to convince Bronn to betray Cercei and join his side with the Lannister soldiers right there listening to every word.

Speaking of Bronn, won't somebody kill him already? I can't stand him these days, he is such a writer's pet.

Unfortunately, I think he might make it right to the very last episode of the show. The writers clearly have so much fun writing "witty" dialogue about cocks for him. 

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2 minutes ago, WSmith84 said:

Cersei's plan is a bit perplexing. If her intent was to always agree to some kind of fake truce, why bother getting all angry and fake reject it and then have a discussion with Jaime where he tries to change her mind only for her to reject him? Doesn't it defeat the purpose of her plan if Dany and Jon leave before Cersei agrees to the truce? Did she know Tyrion would try to convince her too and was waiting for that? Have I given this more thought than the writers? Probably.

 

I'm okay with this in the sense that if I were Cersei I would assume, knowing that Tyrion is on their side, they are predisposed to not trust me.  ESPECIALLY if I come at them nice and conciliatory.  I'd make a show of being heated and being unwilling to compromise only to "let" them bring me around later.  Because I'd be thinking that's what Tyrion has told them to expect of me.  And if they "win me over" they feel like they've earned what they wanted, which they are more likely to believe in than if I just gave it to them, which would be suspiciously easy.

It also makes sense, in retrospect, that the Euron thing was a front.  That was some classic good cop/bad cop shtick (LOLworthy as the idea of Cersei as Good Cop usually is)

So the general idea is fine.  The nuts and bolts of it, however, are more ripe for questioning, as you point out.

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I was sad Eurons hide like a bitch move was a hoax. but the episode was the best one of the season it felt a lot less rushed even though it was.

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7 minutes ago, Frances Bean Corbray said:

I'm okay with this in the sense that if I were Cersei I would assume, knowing that Tyrion is on their side, they are predisposed to not trust me.  ESPECIALLY if I come at them nice and conciliatory.  I'd make a show of being heated and being unwilling to compromise only to "let" them bring me around later.  Because I'd be thinking that's what Tyrion has told them to expect of me.  And if they "win me over" they feel like they've earned what they wanted, which they are more likely to believe in than if I just gave it to them, which would be suspiciously easy.

It also makes sense, in retrospect, that the Euron thing was a front.  That was some classic good cop/bad cop shtick (LOLworthy as the idea of Cersei as Good Cop usually is)

So the general idea is fine.  The nuts and bolts of it, however, are more ripe for questioning, as you point out.

Agree with this.  We saw the same when Tyrion and cersei had dinner and she was being all nice and boasting and then she brought in that one hoe (she was LFs pet until Joffrey put some bolts in her) and acted like she was the smartest person alive. 

But along that original convo, I love how Jamie explains that if the North loses, the dead fight them and if the North wins, they fight them. So, either way they lose.  Her response, literally after explaining that the Dead terrify her and are an actual threat, is that 20k GC will mop up the survivors.  She does realize that a dragon just wiped out about 10k troops and she think her soldiers will just beat 100k strong dead army.  Its hilarious that the discussion of only 2 dragons being present doesn't even cross her mind that maybe one died in getting the Wight (which the fact that a discussion on how the wight was stolen in the first place was confusin).  All this talk of the dead being so dangerous and no one asks Jon and company how they managed to steal one. 

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24 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

Haha. If Jon starts telling Dany about how he doesn't like sand then there will be something really off the rails.

And I agree. The writing is atrocious, so they don't have much to work with. But even their facial expressions and scenes without dialogue are weak. Characters can express more with little to no dialogue. Take this scene from The Office. 20 seconds is all you need to see how the characters feel.

Instead, we get Dany deadpanning him most of the time with no idea what the hell we're supposed to feel. Plus, I have never seen a less sexy sex scene than theirs.

 

I don't like snow. It's cold and wet and irritating. And it gets everywhere.

I agree that their facial acting is bland, but I think that if the writers wrote a few scenes of genuine bonding for them, we wouldn't have to rely just on the facial acting to get the idea across.

For example, that office scene has one character directly questioning the other about their feelings. Now imagine a scene where hey are both talking about radiators instead. 

I'm getting more romance from Emilia than Kit here, but YMMV. 

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I've enjoyed what D$D have done up to the last two seasons. But once they actually ran out of books, they - and their co-writers - had to rely on their own writing, and boy, oh boy, do they ever stink. I can't remember a specific example from last night, but man oh man, was it first-year drama class level. "Go ahead, kill me!" - they actually used this TWICE in this episode. That's the best they got? And that's just one example. 

The show's become a showcase for production values - really high production values, read, 'lots of money spent on it' - and fan service. Lighting, costumes, sets, VFX, dragons... all pretty fantastic and worth the money forked over. Especially if you look at this season compared to the production values in season one and season two - light years better now. The scene with the caged walker? Terrific effects. 

Unfortunately BUDGETS cannot a narrative make. The universe is just too large and complicated for non-fantasy writers to comprehend and make coherent - honestly, I don't care too much about time lapses and flaws in continuity, it is a TV show after all, but there has to be some sense of narrative urgency, especially at this stage of the game. And D&D, writers who've both spent careers adapting other people's works and worlds (remakes and adaptations are their bread and butter), are shooting blanks at this stage. How is it possible that I no longer care about who sits on the Iron Throne? Maybe it's impossible so sustain over six seasons? 

It's annoying because I was so invested in this show until it diverged from GRRM's words and plot. Which is all the more reason to bow to GRRM, heh. 

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40 minutes ago, Snormund said:

Why won't this board approve my attempts at making a thread criticizing the character assasination of Jon? 

 

I think this is well worth discussing 

I agree!

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2 minutes ago, ramla said:

I agree!

Thanks. They finally approved it. It's called "can we talk about Jon" if you want to discuss stuff in there's 

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11 hours ago, Hoo said:

But Sansa said that.  LF just confirmed Ssnsa's words.

He can do that as the advisor.  And Sansa can say to her advisor, I met with Arya and all is good.  But she did not.  She wanted to kill him.

it was a farce for a murder.  And she killed him because she was tired of him, she wanted to kill him.

And Arya executed him because Arya is a killer, she will kill anyone, without any moral judgment.

Did you forget the part where LF sold Sansa to the Boltons?

Did you forget where he killed Lysa Arryn?

How about the part where he gave Lysa poison (tears of lys) to kill Jon Arryn?

Or How about the part where he lied about Jon Arryn's murder to start the war between the Lions and the Wolves.

Or how about when he lied to Catelyn about who tried to kill Bran. It was his dagger, but he pinned it on Tyrion in order to cause hostilities between Winterfell and Casterly Rock.

LF purposely caused the WOFK, which led to the deaths of most of Sansa's family. LF got what he deserved.

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8 hours ago, Pyat>Daenerys said:

Reminds me of when season 7 leaks were posted. ''No way that's true it's just too stupid!'' And we all know how that turned out...

If you prefer to believe a Fanfic on the internet, instead of believing someone who has contact with the people who produce the show as well for you.

By the way the difference is that awayforthelads obtained the scripts of the episodes of the seventh season, in contrast this alleged plot of the eighth season published is a Fanfic.
 

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2 minutes ago, Snormund said:

Thanks. They finally approved it. It's called "can we talk about Jon" if you want to discuss stuff in there's 

Oh ok thanks, i definitely want to say my peace! lol

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Oh my god, even worse than expected (and I really had low expectations). There wasn't a single scene in which I couldn't find some nonsense. But let's proceed with order, then I'll just stop thinking about it once for all

1) I will not buy any more the excuse "they only have few episodes remaining": half of this one was filled with completely irrelevant time wasting scenes.
2) Characters keep saying they have time pressure and then they do everything in the slowest possible way. For example, if they have to go to a meeting, they'll move the entire army, and the one who's supposed to be the fastest is the one who's late.
3) If two characters don't have anything to say each other, don't make them speak! What added to the story the dialogue between Brienne and the Hound? And between Tyrion and Pod? The Hound with the Mountain? The answer is pretty clear, showrunners were sitting at a table and they just started going like: "ehi! these two characters will be in the same place and they spent some time together previously, we absolutely need to show them meeting again!" what a childish way of reasoning.
4) concerning the Hound and the Mountain. I've just noticed that a. the Hound had absolutely no reason to be there. b. he asked his own brother if he remembered him...
5) we all know Daenerys have dragons and we are used to them since season 5. Is it really necessary to give every freaking time a big suspense to it?
6) Euron at the beginning was useless
7) all the characters kept saying what we all already knew for at least 5 minutes
8) the wight knows well who he's supposed to impress
9) Euron at the end was useless
10) We have in more occasions in the episode the opportunity to appreciate how dumb "bending the knee" was .
11) Tyrion for some inexplicable reasons thinks he's the right man to convince Cersei.
12) then for some even more inexplicable reasons beg her to kill him. (Jaime will do the same. Apparently the screenwriters think that "kill me" is the best way to cover the silence in a dialogue when they lack good ideas)
13) " it's not easy for ravens to fly "   ....         **** *** !!
14) It is still unclear what was the brilliant argument of Tyrion to convince Cersei, and we know that she wasn't convinced at all, so all those  minutes of talking talking talking were, again, inconsequential. She could have betrayed them from the beginning, saving the time they claim it's precious
15) Arya queen of Winterfell is not worth a comment
16) Did Jon really just explained to Theon that "despite what people believe (???), he doesn't always do the right thing?" Thank you Jon! we needed you to understand that.
17) What a funny moment! Theon doesn't suffer 'cause he has no balls...
18) "I'm a bit confused." Don't worry Petyr, we all are. But not for the reason you might think.
19) As I have said in another comment, I'm quiet sure that some viewers understood that Littlefinger was going to die before the screenwriters.
20) Then I guess some months have passed, 'cause when Jaime leaves, Cersei talks about Euron as if he was already far away. Obviously, it has been shown in no way.
21) WW pass the wall thanks to the dragon. Also, Cersei didn't agree to the armistice. Shall we talk again about the freaking zombie capture's plan?

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Where to even begin?

Population of King's Landing was 500,000 back in season 3 ep 7 according to Jaime when speaking with Qyburn, now up to 1,000,000.  Why do I even expect the writers to remember this.  It's like they haven't even seen their own show.

Tyrion is officially the worst Hand in history and the dumbest character in the show.  He really falls for another Cercei scheme?  He is supposed to be the true intellectual heir to Tywin and he can't seem to see through even the thinnest veil of deceit.

How are we not done with Cercei yet?  She shouldn't have made it out of season 6 and yet here she is going strong into season 8 for no reason at all.  The queen of a single city with no allies and a terrorist in the eyes of the realm's dominant religion.  Had D&D gotten rid of her when they should've they might have saved enough money through eliminating her contract to have a full season, or show a glimpse of ghost.  How many more times do we need to see that same wide eyed vacant icy stare, really worth a cool million per episode?  Just one shot of Ghost!

We really don't get any dialogue leading up to Jon and Dany getting together?  Just a few minutes of them actually talking in private and bonding like normal humans and not  brooding over the great war?  Writers took their love story straight out of Twilight.  "Just have them stare at each other a lot, people will get it."  Not that I've seen it...

So Rhaegar annuls his marriage to Elia bastardizing their two kids and then names his new son the same name as his first.  That is some cold blooded stuff.  "Not only do I have a second family I gave them the same names as you and the kids.  Tell the Mountain I say hi, come on New Elia and Aegon let's go get some ice cream."  Where's Robert's hammer when you need it?

Some quick hits: Ice dragon shoots icyfire? "Go on, kill me" trope used twice in the same episode.  Everything at Winterfell.  Holes in wings make dragons fly faster?  Pretty sure Tyrion had less to do with the deaths of Cercei's kids than herself and Jaime, he would know that if his brain hadn't been written out in season 5 due to contract negotiations.

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URGH!

Given that the writers appeared desperate by any non-logical means necessary to dump all of these characters into the same place at the Dragon pit, nothing actually happened! What was the point? As a viewer I gained no knowledge from those scenes- Cersei is still the mega bitch I always knew she was and Dany and Jon are still utterly ridiculous in thinking this was all a jolly good plan. The only benefit is that Jaime is now where he should have been several seasons ago.

As this episode had a longer running time, I had the smallest of vague hopes that something bigger was brewing. This was the first face to face meeting of bitter enemies, it could have been something more, a possible coup in the making that Tywin Lannister would have been proud of. Even if that is not the story the writers wanted to tell at this particular point then the exchange still should have been riddled with tension or a horrible sense of unease, yet at no point did i feel that any of these characters were in any danger what so ever. If I want to see everyone hold hands and be friends I would watch My Little Pony.

As for Winterfell...URGGGGGH! 

I admit I was kinda interested when Littlefinger handed Bran the knife earlier in the season as it raised a few questions as to what Littlefinger might have actually been up to, especially when it ended up in Ayra's possession i thought he might attempt to frame her through that knife somehow...but no, Littlefingers master plan was to have two sisters squabble. Oh no! So scaaaaary.

I get that the writers wanted to surprise the viewers at the last moment but it would have been a far more satisfying payoff from Littlefinger's death had the Winterfell storyline actually been properly built up and earned. I am missing the crucial part where I felt like the sisters earned his death, the part where they figured out Littlefingers...erm..."plan" and had to work hard for their resolution. I personally would have found that far more satisfying both as a story and from a character building perspective. Instead we are shown point C with point A and B no where to seen.

Also...has the Mountain shrunk?

 

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I do not believe the script when it says Euron leaving was a ruse.  

I honestly believe that they originally wrote it with Euron leaving to go sit this out on the Iron Islands and advising Dany to do the same, and then used him leaving as an excuse to go pick up the Golden Company when it was pointed out they had no navy.  They are backing themselves into plotholes and not even bothering to fix them within the same episode.

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so let's try to understand this:

  • lord of light is against the WWs
  • lord of light raises Jon
  • raised Jon is the reason Dany ends up north of the wall with her dragons
  • dragons north of the wall is the way for the NK to get through it

Wouldn't everybody be better off if Jon had just stayed dead? Sure you can work out a thousand theoretical reasons this was still the best way for it to work out. But when the major narrative foundation of the show becomes dominos falling behind a curtain you're not allowed to look behind or acknowledge, then the story is broken.

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9 minutes ago, iprayiam said:

so let's try to understand this:

  • lord of light is against the WWs
  • lord of light raises Jon
  • raised Jon is the reason Dany ends up north of the wall with her dragons
  • dragons north of the wall is the way for the NK to get through it

Wouldn't everybody be better off if Jon had just stayed dead? Sure you can work out a thousand theoretical reasons this was still the best way for it to work out. But when the major narrative foundation of the show becomes dominos falling behind a curtain you're not allowed to look behind or acknowledge, then the story is broken.

Maybe it was not the Lord of Light, but the Great Other, who raised Jon to serve as a pawn.

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