Brienne's Honor in Pennytree

[The Fattest Leech]

2 minutes ago, divica said:

That quote shows that even after cat's death brienne wants to find and protect her daughters.

I believe she may break her oath of service to LSH because she is not cat. But I don t believe she will ever stop trying to make sure her daughters are ok. Besides, I don t know if Brienne is capable of killing LSH. We would need more information to know how evil LSH is or if she is only blinded by revenge and can yet be "saved".

I also tend to believe Brienne will break her oath to Catelyn as well because Cat is now Lady Stoneheart. However, I don't know that all of Cat is gone from LSH just yet. Three days dead or not, even Beric still has some memory after being dead and risen six times in the story. What makes me speculate this of LSH is that she seems to have tears (memory) in her eye when thinking of her children. Maybe. I could quite possibly be wrong on this one, but I am curious. 

• A trestle table had been set up across the cave, in a cleft in the rock. Behind it sat a woman all in grey, cloaked and hooded. In her hands was a crown, a bronze circlet ringed by iron swords. She was studying it, her fingers stroking the blades as if to test their sharpness. Her eyes glimmered under her hood.

Grey was the color of the silent sisters, the handmaidens of the Stranger. Brienne felt a shiver climb her spine. Stoneheart.

[Springwatch]

43 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I had a thought here.   Brienne swore it on her sword.   What does it mean that Brienne no longer carries that sword?   I mean she could be.   She carries 2 swords.  But I'm not sure now. What does it mean if she's no longer carrying that sword?  Is there a code to that? 

Um, good question. I don't know. The sword is sort of interchangeable with the person - Jon says: Robb is the better lance, but I am the better sword (something like that). So when Brienne swears by her sword, she really swears by herself and the oath stays with her.

But what can it mean to have two swords? Jaime has two horses, one named Honor and one named Glory, and we're left guessing which 'horse' he's currently riding. So maybe Brienne thinks differently when she's wielding Oathkeeper. Maybe even more hung up on oaths than before, and less worried about honour.

[Curled Finger]

13 minutes ago, Nevets said:

The Brienne/Jaime story has always been one of the hardest for me to figure out.   I am reasonably certain that she is lying to Jaime in that I don't think she is taking him to either Sandor or either Stark girl.  But I have no idea what is next.  I am surprised at Jaime's disappearance.  It appears as if he has been for some weeks.  I would have expected him to reappear - either dead or alive.  In fact, the only reason I'm not convinced he's dead is that his body has not appeared.

If either Jaime or Brienne dies,, I would expect it to be Jaime.  I think his story might have come to its end.  I do not for a second believe that he will lead the BwB.  They are too different in methods and objectives. Nor do I think he will take the black.  I honestly doubt how much he even values his own life any more.  He might just say, "Go on and kill me and get it over with".

By the way, Jaime knows that Jeyne isn't Arya and tells Brienne as much when he gives her the sword. 

Nevets Old Friend!  So good to see you here.  Yes, I see I'm woefully mistaken about everyone knowing Jeyne isn't Arya.   I only remembered the first part where he thinks Arya was younger.  Of course, I'm a big Brienne fan and it disappoints (if that's the right word) me to think Brienne would lie to Jamie--to anyone really, but Jamie?   I'm hoping it's some code they worked out back at Harrenhall or something.  A girl could be any girl, but this Hound of all people really has me wondering what's up with this.   When researching this topic I found more mentions of the Hound and his crimes against the Riverlands than I ever remembered reading.  He's got to be Public Enemy #2 by now. 

I wouldn't be surprised if both Jamie and Brienne die for a while, but I do expect at least 1 of them to be revived.  I think Jamie's already had his metaphorical death, it may be our noble maid's turn now.  I said earlier somewhere in all this typing that there are any number of characters who could require resurrection before it's all said and done.   If Lem Lemmoncloak is indeed Richard Lonmouth wouldn't he possibly have some very valuable information about Rhaegar and Lyanna?   He was the squire after all.   I can't have the Knight of Skulls and Kisses die before I know.    I'm just not having it.    

There is still plenty for Jamie to do if you want him to do more.   (It's all in interest I think)  I like the whole idea of Jamie organizing and rallying the BWB.  I like the idea of Jamie and Brienne going to the Wall.   Of course I like the idea of Jamie and Brienne both being part of a heroic company that takes their magic swords north of the Wall, too.  Maybe running into Davos and Rickon in the Haunted Forest or something.  

It's so good to chat with you.   If you have time and feel like coming back why don't you say a few things about the Hound or LSH?  

[Curled Finger]

4 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

Um, good question. I don't know. The sword is sort of interchangeable with the person - Jon says: Robb is the better lance, but I am the better sword (something like that). So when Brienne swears by her sword, she really swears by herself and the oath stays with her.

But what can it mean to have two swords? Jaime has two horses, one named Honor and one named Glory, and we're left guessing which 'horse' he's currently riding. So maybe Brienne thinks differently when she's wielding Oathkeeper. Maybe even more hung up on oaths than before, and less worried about honour.

Hey now, that's great.  Thanks!

[The Fattest Leech]

 

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I wouldn't be surprised if both Jamie and Brienne die for a while, but I do expect at least 1 of them to be revived.  I think Jamie's already had his metaphorical death, it may be our noble maid's turn now.  I said earlier somewhere in all this typing that there are any number of characters who could require resurrection before it's all said and done.   If Lem Lemmoncloak is indeed Richard Lonmouth wouldn't he possibly have some very valuable information about Rhaegar and Lyanna?   He was the squire after all.   I can't have the Knight of Skulls and Kisses die before I know.    I'm just not having it.    

I am totally in agreement here. I do hope Lem is Lon, in a big way.

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There is still plenty for Jamie to do if you want him to do more.   (It's all in interest I think)  I like the whole idea of Jamie organizing and rallying the BWB.  I like the idea of Jamie and Brienne going to the Wall.   Of course I like the idea of Jamie and Brienne both being part of a heroic company that takes their magic swords north of the Wall, too.  Maybe running into Davos and Rickon in the Haunted Forest or something.  

Hmmm, two kinsguard both heading to the wall to do what, per se?

[divica]

1 minute ago, The Fattest Leech said:

 

I am totally in agreement here. I do hope Lem is Lon, in a big way.

Hmmm, two kinsguard both heading to the wall to do what, per say?

Don t Forget that if Lem escorts them to the Wall maybe he will be the one that exposes R+L=J after seeing jon and knowing his story. It would be funny if it was him instead of howland reed or bran...

In adition, maybe he pleads to LSH to give him the kiss of life... Hell, What would happen if someone injured but not yet dead received the kiss of life?

[LynnS]

19 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I can think of a bunch of people who could put LSH out of her misery.   My personal favorite is Arya learning the real gift of mercy instead of all her righteous vengeance.  But that's me and highly improbable.  I can't say too much about Beric's choice to give Cat the kiss of life.   I'm saving that for a topic I wrote for our friends at the Riverlands Web when they get going again. But I know I came up with at least 3 reasons why he would do this thing. I think this life transfer sort of fits in with our friend @hiemal's ideas about soul transfer.  Someone has to be able to bring Jamie, Brienne, The Hound, Lem, Hyle, Pod, Gendry or any number of other characters back when this is all said and done.   We've got 2 life givers but I doubt LSH will be kissing anyone.  That kindness is simply not in her. 

I'm guessing that Jaime's redemption arc will be well and truly kicked off after meeting LSH.  If Jaime leads an army at all; I'm guessing it will involve the ancient order of the sword and shield.  The KG is a sacred office consecrated by the High Septon.   I don't think the table in the LC's quarters is made in the shape of a shield out of weirwood for nothing.    

[Curled Finger]

31 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I also work mostly alone and don't interact with people much until the days end when they come home, or I am out running errands. My friends are all O.L.D. and prefer comfy pants nowadays Most people to me are their avatar online, whether it be a cat, a hand, a piece of fruit, or a majestic bouffant princess.

I love Ian Glenn's readings... except he gets a little "sshhhy" with some of his words, like he needs to unlock his jaw. However, when he reads the part where Rhaenyra gives birth, I do get chills in a sad way...

On Dragonstone, no cheers were heard. Instead, screams echoed through the halls and stairwells of Sea Dragon Tower, down from the queen’s apartments where Rhaenyra Targaryen strained and shuddered in her third day of labor. The child had not been due for another turn of the moon, but the tidings from King’s Landing had driven the princess into a black fury, and her rage seemed to bring on the birth, as if the babe inside her were angry too, and fighting to get out. The princess shrieked curses all through her labor, calling down the wroth of the gods upon her half brothers and their mother the queen, and detailing the torments she would inflict upon them before she would let them die. She cursed the child inside her too. “Get out,” she screamed, clawing at her swollen belly as her maester and her midwife tried to restrain her. “Monster, monster, get out, get out, GET OUT!”

Same here... although I stopped watching that abomination a while ago. I may check out the youtube vids (for free!) one day. Maybe.

snip

Gads I want a job where i don't have to speak to anyone and wear comfy pants!  I need that. I get chills listening to Glen read that part too.  @kissdbyfire here is your challenge--listen to that and report back if that isn't some of the best reading you've ever heard.  

My fault, I'm opening the door--which abomination?   Does it start with the letters HBO? I live on YouTube having only discovered it 2 years ago--what can I say?  It's great.   I can listen to History of Westeros then take in some other videos about a topic, catch up with Radio Westeros' POV on the matter and listen to someone narrate that part of the book.  (And I know who Preston Jacobs is now!)  But the histories and lore are great little stories and are so well done.   I saw it here on the forum once in a Bran the Builder discussion.   There are clues in these little stories.   Apparently if you watch the BtB history and lore you see he's seated in every frame he's in.  It's true.   How cool is that? 

[LynnS]

1 minute ago, divica said:

Don t Forget that if Lem escorts them to the Wall maybe he will be the one that exposes R+L=J after seeing jon and knowing his story. It would be funny if it was him instead of howland reed or bran...

Or just as he is a about to die - he'll say "wait, wait" and then Brienne will kill him before he can say anything.

[Curled Finger]

3 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I'm guessing that Jaime's redemption arc will be well and truly kicked off after meeting LSH.  If Jaime leads an army at all; I'm guessing it will involve the ancient order of the sword and shield.  The KG is a sacred office consecrated by the High Septon.   I don't think the table in the LC's quarters is made in the shape of a shield out of weirwood for nothing.    

Ah great catch.   The table is in the shape of a shield.  Well done!

[Curled Finger]

2 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Or just as he is a about to die - he'll say "wait, wait" and then Brienne will kill him before he can say anything.

That's just not right.  Someone has to say something.

[Curled Finger]

5 minutes ago, divica said:

Don t Forget that if Lem escorts them to the Wall maybe he will be the one that exposes R+L=J after seeing jon and knowing his story. It would be funny if it was him instead of howland reed or bran...

In adition, maybe he pleads to LSH to give him the kiss of life... Hell, What would happen if someone injured but not yet dead received the kiss of life?

WOW, that's quite a question.  Where is that hand we took from the wight? 

[divica]

Just now, Curled Finger said:

That's just not right.  Someone has to say something.

In an interview grrm will say that right before dieing Lem found out something very important. =)

[The Fattest Leech]

5 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Or just as he is a about to die - he'll say "wait, wait" and then Brienne will kill him before he can say anything.

Dang it, Lynn! Don't let that happen to me

[Curled Finger]

11 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

 

I am totally in agreement here. I do hope Lem is Lon, in a big way.

Hmmm, two kinsguard both heading to the wall to do what, per se?

I hope Lem is Lon and he spills his guts. Preferably before he dies.  You're supposed to pay attention to the part about running into Davos and Rickon.   That's a Nevets idea from way back, and 1 of the most original ideas I've read here.  But yeah, I've got Brienne and Jamie both marked for hero companions.  

[Cridefea]

4 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Someone would almost have to tell her what to say in my opinion.  Thankfully, Jamie is clever and imaginative, so he may be astute to a danger or set up.   Or he's just hell bent to keep his vow and rescue Sansa, Hound or no.  Hard to say about Jamie. 

If LSH or someone of the BwB told her what to say, the story would be different. First of all because it's not so plausibile, but most of all because it would mean LSH believes Jaime so honorable to leave his army, rescue her daughter and keep his word. They can't think he's gonna leave the camp with Brienne because of Sansa, it doesn't fit their opinion for Jaime. As for him, yes he surely felt the danger, probably he thought Brienne is gonna explain him the truth on the road...

4 hours ago, LynnS said:

The dead don't just come back in your dreams to confront you about your oaths.  

yes!!!

4 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Truth be told I would enjoy watching Jamie have to listen to Hyle try to pick up on Brienne.

Can't wait to read it!! 

[Nevets]

10 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Of course, I'm a big Brienne fan and it disappoints (if that's the right word) me to think Brienne would lie to Jamie--to anyone really, but Jamie?   I'm hoping it's some code they worked out back at Harrenhall or something.  A girl could be any girl, but this Hound of all people really has me wondering what's up with this.   When researching this topic I found more mentions of the Hound and his crimes against the Riverlands than I ever remembered reading.  He's got to be Public Enemy #2 by now. 

"Girl" is obviously Sansa.  Jaime is in the presence of others so can't use Sansa's name openly.  Brienne needs Jaime to leave his band,and the only way he will do that is if he thinks Sansa is in danger.  The Hound is a well-known threat.  Also, Brienne has heard that the "Stark girl" was with the Hound.  She may think Jaime has heard the same story.

I'm guessing the real Hound is still at Quiet Isle.  I don't think he would leave for anything other than a threat to Sansa.

22 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

There is still plenty for Jamie to do if you want him to do more.   (It's all in interest I think)  I like the whole idea of Jamie organizing and rallying the BWB.  I like the idea of Jamie and Brienne going to the Wall.   Of course I like the idea of Jamie and Brienne both being part of a heroic company that takes their magic swords north of the Wall, too.  Maybe running into Davos and Rickon in the Haunted Forest or something.  

There was still plenty for Ned and Robb to do as well, when they met their demises.  The thing is,if he isn't the valonqar, there isn't really anything he has to do, and his character has come to a good redemption point.  I can easily see him sacrificing himself for Brienne and her quest.  Also, his death would shake up the story a great deal, and we're overdue for a major death.  (I don't believe Jon is really dead)

I don't see LSH sending any body to the wall.  She doesn't trust Jon, and with the wall under his control, would probably assume some sort of collusion.  I have to go now, but will check in later.  Good to get back in touch.

[LynnS]

15 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Dang it, Lynn! Don't let that happen to me

LOL! It's an endless source of frustration for me that GRRM kills off anyone who knows something. Benjen for example and Mormont probably.

[The Fattest Leech]

3 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I hope Lem is Lon and he spills his guts. Preferably before he dies.  You're supposed to pay attention to the part about running into Davos and Rickon.   That's a Nevets idea from way back, and 1 of the most original ideas I've read here. 

That is a great idea. It fits along the map/terrain/path of travel? I hope so.

Quote

 

But yeah, I've got Brienne and Jamie both marked for hero companions.  

Well, while up in the sword tower, Jaime give Bri part of Ice while they are at the weirwood shield table of the kinguard. And they are both now in a place that could take them even farther north to either Rickon (Nevets ) or to Jon, who is most likely going to be Jon Snow, King of Winter.

CLARIFYING: Jaime and Brienne can only go north after the issues in the Riverlands and Stoneheart are dealt with. Going north would be an after mission. 

As Jojen says, ""By night all cloaks are black, Your Grace." And the NW are the shields and swords that guard the realms of men. And the NW vows start by declaring, "Night gathers, and now my watch begins..."

But I will stop here as I am going off topic. Sorry

[Curled Finger]

16 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

That is a great idea. It fits along the map/terrain/path of travel? I hope so.

Well, while up in the sword tower, Jaime give Bri part of Ice while they are at the weirwood shield table of the kinguard. And they are both now in a place that could take them even farther north to either Rickon (Nevets ) or to Jon, who is most likely going to be Jon Snow, King of Winter.

As Jojen says, ""By night all cloaks are black, Your Grace." And the NW are the shields and swords that guard the realms of men. And the NW vows start by declaring, "Night gathers, and now my watch begins..."

But I will stop here as I am going off topic. Sorry

I like it when you're having fun.   You just type whatever tickles here among friends.