DMC Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 20 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said: Now you're riding the rainclouds! No idea what that means. I suspect @Kalbear is doing the same thing I am - riding out the consternation among people that have nothing to do with the Democratic party, let alone American politics. It's always amusing to see how many people are especially mad about the American president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 5 minutes ago, dmc515 said: No idea what that means. I suspect @Kalbear is doing the same thing I am - riding out the consternation among people that have nothing to do with the Democratic party, let alone American politics. It's always amusing to see how many people are especially mad about the American president. NAh brah Let it all hang out, dawg Only way to live is to be ready to dye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said: Only way to live is to be ready to dye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I...what? For the record, this election cycle has made me 100% convinced that the entire US political system is fucked, and there's no real way to unfuck it at this point. That doesn't mean jackboots and getting bagged (at least not everywhere) but it does mean our system is undemocratic and illiberal enough that I think it's beyond the tipping point where we have anything other than a pretty facade of democracy. Quote Eventually some of them are going to stop following Trump and Ryan to Authoritarian land as midterms near and reality starts setting in. Taking Jace's comment as an example of the counterargument to me, which appears to be 'but people will just eventually see the light, and change, and things will be better' and my counterargument to that is ALL OF FUCKING HUMAN HISTORY. The real issue with this statement is the 'reality starts setting it'. Oh, no. No it doesn't. Did you listen to the BBC this week, which is in Wisconsin hanging out with Trump voters? They are all thrilled with him. There is nothing wrong with him save that he occasionally says things that everyone thinks but shouldn't be said out loud. They seriously believe everything is right as rain, and some of these people voted for Obama previously. That is their reality. What will make them 'see' reality is something actually harming them, badly, that they can't ignore. Opioids, housing crises, war, famine, unemployment. But as far as they can tell things are Just Fine, because they're white people living in Wisconsin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 8 minutes ago, Kalbear said: For the record, this election cycle has made me 100% convinced that the entire US political system is fucked, and there's no real way to unfuck it at this point. That doesn't mean jackboots and getting bagged (at least not everywhere) but it does mean our system is undemocratic and illiberal enough that I think it's beyond the tipping point where we have anything other than a pretty facade of democracy. It's not actually that different from what existed for the past 40 years or so, it's just that certain proprieties have mostly been cast aside and certain ideas are discussed more openly. I have no doubt it will change again soon -- this is simply its nature and clearly evident from the entirety of the country's history -- but I don't know in which direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Altherion said: It's not actually that different from what existed for the past 40 years or so, it's just that certain proprieties have mostly been cast aside and certain ideas are discussed more openly. I have no doubt it will change again soon -- this is simply its nature and clearly evident from the entirety of the country's history -- but I don't know in which direction. Properties = truth (also -- morality and ethics) Ideas = falsehoods (also - nativism and white supremacy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 9 minutes ago, Kalbear said: I...what? Got your attention. You're much more fun to argue with. 12 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Did you listen to the BBC this week, which is in Wisconsin hanging out with Trump voters? They are all thrilled with him. Did I listen to BBC this week? Nope. No I didn't - and never will. 13 minutes ago, Kalbear said: They seriously believe everything is right as rain, and some of these people voted for Obama previously. That is their reality. What will make them 'see' reality is something actually harming them, badly, that they can't ignore. Opioids, housing crises, war, famine, unemployment. But as far as they can tell things are Just Fine, because they're white people living in Wisconsin. Yeah, that's kinda the thing. White people in Wisconsin definitely blamed Obama "previously." And now? They'll blame Trump. That's how responsibility attribution works. It's why Scott Walker is running scared. Turns out, dumb white people are fickle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 13 minutes ago, dmc515 said: Got your attention. You're much more fun to argue with. Told you I'd get the rain cloud here on time This thread is more fun for me when smart people are in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 16 minutes ago, Altherion said: It's not actually that different from what existed for the past 40 years or so, it's just that certain proprieties have mostly been cast aside and certain ideas are discussed more openly. I have no doubt it will change again soon -- this is simply its nature and clearly evident from the entirety of the country's history -- but I don't know in which direction. Oh, sure. Don't get me wrong - what has changed for me is that I'm starting to see the undemocratic and illiberal systems more, and they're more pronounced - but they've been there since the 1970s. Nixon barely - just barely - had to resign, and that was largely due to a whole lot of accidents and the work of one really pissed off agent. 9-11 made it so our government happily was given massive police state powers, and those powers continue to be voted forward. We've been at war for 17 years now, and there's no sign of that ever changing or of anyone really caring about it being an issue. Etc, etc. 11 minutes ago, dmc515 said: Yeah, that's kinda the thing. White people in Wisconsin definitely blamed Obama "previously." And now? They'll blame Trump. That's how responsibility attribution works. It's why Scott Walker is running scared. Turns out, dumb white people are fickle. But they didn't blame Obama. They weren't mad at him. They didn't vote for Trump as a vote against Obama (though they apparently didn't like Clinton very much). They were okay with Obama, and now they're happy with Trump. If things drop precipitously, fine - they'll blame Trump. But if they are just 'fine' for them, they'll attribute bullshit to Trump he had no part in doing and ignore anything remotely wrong. Because in addition to responsibility attribution, you have the problem of humans being remarkably shitty at changing their view, and the result is not a good look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: Ok so I'm not insane. I could have sworn there was another thread that was getting bum rushed by a troll a few hours ago when I was last on. I wish I could have seen where it ended because it was going off the rails fast. And I may or may not have accused you of being the sock puppet. Suspicious that you were gone for the day. The plot thickens! I do have a sock puppet pic I could use, but I guess it's too late now. Who was the troll? Did the mods throw him under the bridge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said: I do have a sock puppet pic I could use, but I guess it's too late now. Who was the troll? Did the mods throw him under the bridge? They lurk always. The Pony Queen keeps them away. You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, Kalbear said: They didn't vote for Trump as a vote against Obama (though they apparently didn't like Clinton very much). They were okay with Obama, and now they're happy with Trump. To the bolded: Yes they did -- well, in a way. You can link as many freaky New Yorker pieces as you want, but a signifiant portion of Wisconsin voters went from Obama to Trump because they were more comfortable with the latter than voting for Hillary. Your rundown here seems to echo such a rationale, which means you understand and accept the preeminence of self-interested politics, which means you're one of us - the greater good: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Pony Queen Jace said: Now you're riding the rainclouds! @Nasty LongRider Yo, why don't you introduce your cuff links to your socks so they can partay!?! Where my main man Kal at too? Boy needs to get the sad slapped out his ass. I don't have any cuff links, and all of my earrings and socks are well acquainted, thanks. PS: I missed all the fun and the multiple threads. boo hoo, poor me. Trump still sux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Pony Queen Jace said: Eventually some of them are going to stop following Trump and Ryan to Authoritarian land as midterms near and reality starts setting in. Have you been drinking the tequila again? Because honey, you are so hallucinating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 5 hours ago, Yukle said: I think you mean that the election was rigged against His Most High Lord Drumpf because all of these fake voters voted. He won the popular vote. Also, not many people know this, but he also had the biggest electoral college victory of an Republican since Jesus Reagan. And a huge crowd came to his inauguration, something like 10,000,000 people more than came to all of Obama's combined. The evidence is in the tax returns, which unfortunately - even though His Most Majestic Lord Drumpf wants to show them - can't be revealed as the IRS is auditing them, and probably will be for the next 500 years because there are more pages in them than all other tax returns ever. And the bigger the tax return, the bigger the penis. Fact. Interesting story. My colleague, who was working at the NZ Embassy in DC at the time, went to the inauguration. She was standing in one of those empty spaces that was in photos that were doing the rounds in [social[ media the day of / after the inauguration. Funny thing is, though, she was surrounded by masses of red-hatted white people. Seems like the actual truth about the crowd sits somewhere between the anti-Trump photos [taken before the inauguration began] and the pro-Trump press secretary claims that lack any photographic evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 4 hours ago, Martell Spy said: What makes our political system uniquely legitimate... This shit never gets old. I can never decide what’s more fascinating, the weird thing where something is only true if it’s comparatively The Most True of Anyone Anywhere, or the belief that such a thing is objectively possible AND determined by the party involved stating/believing it to be so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 7 minutes ago, Triskele said: Surprised there isn't more reaction to the Supreme Court Pennsylvania news. Seems like exactly the thing I was dreading in the earlier thread. Why wouldn't they go after the elections? GOP leadership does not actually believe in democracy. C'mon man. This should not be surprising to you. The GOP is going to take every advantage they can. That's how it goes. In terms of PA: Quote In a subsequent order issued Jan. 26, the state Supreme Court said it retained Nathaniel Persily, a Stanford Law School professor, to help the court draw a new congressional map. The court also requested maps and data from the General Assembly. But lawyers for Scarnati said the state Supreme Court’s initial order striking down the congressional map “deprives legislative respondents of the ability to draft the court-ordered alternate map” because the order neither explained how the 2011 congressional map violated the state constitution, nor described what the state legislature must do to draw a new map that complies with the state constitution. Scarnati’s lawyers also argued that because the General Assembly lacks this information from the state Supreme Court, the subsequent Jan. 26 order “can only be fairly read to indicate the court’s intention to begin drafting an alternate map well in advance of the deadline the court has established.” Additionally, they argued that the court’s request for data from the General Assembly signals the court intends to use the information to draft a new congressional map. So, we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 6 minutes ago, Triskele said: I'm not surprised whatsoever. I was saying in the previous thread that they've got to be aiming to do stuff like this. I'm surprised that there's so little discussion of it in the thread. If we ignore it hard enough. Something just might work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 9 minutes ago, Triskele said: I'm not surprised whatsoever. I was saying in the previous thread that they've got to be aiming to do stuff like this. I'm surprised that there's so little discussion of it in the thread. Fair enough. I'm just tired. So tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 4 minutes ago, dmc515 said: Fair enough. I'm just tired. So tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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