Jon's dream in ADwD

[Dorian Martell's son]

On 8/30/2018 at 12:33 PM, kissdbyfire said:

We don't know if it can be worked somehow, just as steel is magicked into VS. Also, it's a dream and it may not be something that will happen literally as he dreamt.

This

[Ckram]

1 hour ago, EloImFizzy said:

But if he comes back as a wight isn't his body just going to start rotting? 

Is it? I don't know. Coldhands doesn't seems to be rotting.

Anyway, if he rots is for the better. GRRM has said he doesn't like people coming back from the dead more powerful.

[The Sleeper]

Victarion's left hand is most likely dead and animated by fire magic. Bloodraven is still alive(ish) be becoming part tree. Jon being partly sustained by magic would not be the first case in the series. Mel probably is still partly alive as she still needs to sleep, whereas Beric and Stoneheart's don't.

There is also the foreshadowing of Jon's skin growing as cold as ice until he forgets what warmth feel like. Jon also has a burnt right hand. The armor may not be literal, but it could be. I also don't think ice magic is supposed to be exclusive to the Others. 

[dmfn]

23 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

There are a lot of elements in that dream. I think the black ice armor foreshadows wighthood or partial wighthood for Jon and maybe the use of ice magic as the flaming sword points at the use of fire magic. 

I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that Jon at some point will be wearing actual armor made of ice while wielding an actual flaming sword. 

I agree with this. 

I think the ice armor and fire sword symbolize the manner of Jon's resurrection. He won't be just an ice wight, nor a hollow fire wight like Berric. I think it'll be a mixture. 

[Free Northman Reborn]

His is the Song of Ice and Fire.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

5 hours ago, Ckram said:

Is it? I don't know. Coldhands doesn't seems to be rotting.

Anyway, if he rots is for the better. GRRM has said he doesn't like people coming back from the dead more powerful.

And Beric didn't seem to be rotting either and neither does Lady Stoneheart as far as we know. So at the very least, there seem to be some similarities between the magic of the old gods and the magic of R'hllor. 

Jon's case will be different, I think. Mel said in her chapter that her magic had grown stronger since she arrived at the Wall. What she can do is more potent, and that's because of the magic that is locked into the Wall. Whether Jon is dead or dying, whatever Mel does to help him is going to end up being powered by the magic of the Wall. It's going to be a combo of both magics. 

All the way back in AGoT, when MMD was waking the shadows in the tent, Dany saw a wolf wreathed in flames. I don't think there's a bigger foreshadowing of what's going to go down with Jon than this one.

[Megorova]

22 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

I am 99.99% sure that Quaithe is not the woman standing by Euron, laughing with him at the dwarfs down below. Quaithe is one of the precious few people who have Daenerys' best interests at heart and Euron is clearly set up to be an bitter enemy of Daenerys. Quaithe also has warned Daenerys to be wary of and to distrust krakens so....yeah...

When I was reading that chapter, at first, I also misinterpreted, what Aeron saw. This is his dream:

Spoiler

"The dreams were even worse the second time. He saw the longships of the Ironborn adrift and burning on a boiling blood-red sea. He saw his brother on the Iron Throne again, but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles. Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire. Dwarves capered for their amusement, male and female, naked and misshapen, locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing at each other as Euron and his mate laughed and laughed and laughed … "

 

Aeron saw near Euron a shadow in woman's form. So he assumed, that she is his mate, that they are together. He saw those dwarves, doing whatever they were doing, and assumed, that they are doing that, to ammuse both Euron and that shadow-woman near him. 

Could it be, that Euron's mate, that laughted with him, was not the same person, as that shadow-woman? Yes, it could be, that there's another person near Euron, besides that shadow-woman with white fire.

Could it be, that the shadow-woman didn't actully laughted together with Euron, and that because she is just a shadow, Aeron didn't actually saw her face, or whether she was laughing, or had some other expression? Yes, this also could be the case.

But even if that shadow-woman was actually laughing, and she was near Euron's throne, it still doesn't mean, that she is his mate, or that she is on his side, or even that she is actually there. If white fire in her hands is really just a glass candle, and she really isn't there, she just came there as a shadow, and no one is able to see her, besides Aeron, then she isn't there to support Euron, she's just watching, what is he doing, and that's all. She's a spy, not Euron's supporter.

So that woman can be Quaithe, and even though she is there, it doesn't mean, that she is on Euron's side.

[Lord Varys]

The problem with that dream is that it is pretty mundane, dealing more with fears and anxieties than any concrete hints that it might be 'prophetical'. It is much more in the territory of the very vivid and powerful dream Dunk has in TSS than it is in line with Jaime's weirwood dream, Jojen's green dream(s) or even what we know about the dreams of Daeron the Drunk or Daemon the Younger.

The only elements that I think might provide hints for potential future developments are the fact that the wights are climbing the Wall (there is a reason why it is as high as it is - to make that kind of thing much harder - as well as there is a reason for the whole thing about 'the Wall defending itself') as well as the burning sword thing - I'm reasonably confident Jon and Brienne will both eventually wield literally burning Valyrian steel swords. Swords they will ignite with their own blood the way Beric ignited his. And Valyrian steel thus ignited with dragon blood will burn always - or whenever it is supposed to.

But it might be still a long time until that happens. The black ice thing could just be an symbolic manifestation of his fears - or a hint towards his body soon going to be very cold and dead.

In the end, though, I'd not count that dream as a prophetic dream as such. If Jon had any talents in that department one hopes he would have dreamed about his assassination or some other meaningful event - not to mention that he should have had other such dreams in the past as most of the people with prophetic dreams did have - and they most started very early with that kind of thing.

[Megorova]

42 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

In the end, though, I'd not count that dream as a prophetic dream as such. If Jon had any talents in that department one hopes he would have dreamed about his assassination or some other meaningful event - not to mention that he should have had other such dreams in the past as most of the people with prophetic dreams did have - and they most started very early with that kind of thing.

Probably there was something at Winterfell, that was blocking Jon's dragon abilities from developing, while he was living there. That could be the reason, why Jon was normal, while he was at Winterfell, but suddenly has gained an ability to warg, and see prophetic dreams, after he left. And just being close to The Wall, isn't a good explanation of his sudden awakening. Because Arya is far away from The Wall, nevertheless, she also has gained an ability to warg, after she left Winterfell. So it's all connected to whatever is hiden at Winterfell, and it isn't caused by the power of The Wall. 

[Darth Sidious]

3 hours ago, Megorova said:

Probably there was something at Winterfell, that was blocking Jon's dragon abilities from developing, while he was living there. That could be the reason, why Jon was normal, while he was at Winterfell, but suddenly has gained an ability to warg, and see prophetic dreams, after he left. And just being close to The Wall, isn't a good explanation of his sudden awakening. Because Arya is far away from The Wall, nevertheless, she also has gained an ability to warg, after she left Winterfell. So it's all connected to whatever is hiden at Winterfell, and it isn't caused by the power of The Wall. 

Or maybe Jon has no dragon abilities to start with.

13 hours ago, Ckram said:

Is it? I don't know. Coldhands doesn't seems to be rotting.

Anyway, if he rots is for the better. GRRM has said he doesn't like people coming back from the dead more powerful.

The wights do not decay because of the cold.  Preserved corpses is what they are.   

[Firefae]

On ‎8‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 7:23 PM, EloImFizzy said:

In ADwD Jon Snow has a dream, I believe its in one of his last chapters, where he is fighting. This is a passage from that dream.

"Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist. As the dead men reached the top of the wall he sent them down to die again. He slew a greybeard and a beardless boy, a giant, a gaunt man with filed teeth, a girl with thick red hair. Too late he recognized Ygritte. She was gone as quick as she'd appeared."

Whenever I look this up I find people going over the red blade he's holding, but what I want to know is whats the black ice he's armored in? 

The combination of black ice and fire makes me think of obsidian aka 'frozen fire'.

However, I don't believe Jon will wear obsidian armor or anything like that. The dream is more symbolistic in that Jon has both Ice and Fire heritage. Together with him being a black brother of the Wall, hence the 'black ice'. The burning red blade seems to be connected to him being resurrected by the Red God and the AA prophecy.

[Ckram]

3 hours ago, Silver Bullet 1985 said:

The wights do not decay because of the cold.  Preserved corpses is what they are.   

It's possible. However:

The morning NW men found the corpses of Othor and Jafer Flowers was "unnaturally warm", and yet Dywen noted that there was "no corpse stink" and Sam stated "they aren't rotting". And then "the rangers exchanged glances; they could see it was true, every man of them". And both corpses already had unnatural blue eyes, meaning the Others already rose them by that time.

Regarding Jafer Flower's still-moving hand that decomposed in a jar during Alliser Thorne's trip to King's Landing, that jar was filled with vinegar ("His right hand was floating in a jar of vinegar back in Maester Aemon's tower." - AGOT, Jon VII). So, maybe it decomposed due the southern heat, maybe it was a month in contact with the acetic acid of the vinegar.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Sometimes a dream is just a dream .

[chrisdaw]

3 hours ago, BRANDON GREYSTARK said:

Sometimes a dream is just a dream .

Your dream last night about forgetting to put the groceries in the fridge was just a dream. A protagonist's dream about wielding a flaming sword and killing their loved ones in a novel has a purpose and meaning.