Ran Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 He claimed already he'll be voting yes. Doesn't matter, still need Dems to try and take the Senate, and even if that fails, to keep it as close as possible to make it easier for the so-called moderates to cross party lines, as Murkowski did. I will never understand Flake. He clearly knows this is not a good guy to vote for, but he's wedded to it despite not having to give a damn because he's not seeking re-election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnot OG Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said: Heitkamp needs support for reelection too, and her vote was a no. AND she is underwater in the polls right now while Manchin is up by a fair bit. So actually he has a bit more wiggle room to vote no.....and he may not. He's useless. I left a message for his office just raging at him. His seat might as well be republican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Republicans seem to be smiling after talking with Collins. She's a yes. Now every branch of government has been corrupted. The United States is fucked long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnot OG Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 34 minutes ago, Ran said: He does not "constantly vote" like a Republican. You can look at his record yourself -- there's quite a lot of party line votes where he voted with his party,. But even if he votes 50% of the time with the Republicans, that's better than an actual Republican would do. He needs support for this re-election, simple as that. After that, we can look to 2024, when the blue wave may have made him less necessary (though I think it likely he'll see this as his last term). No, he actually doesn't need this to win re-election. And him winning re-election by screwing over multiple generations and entire demographics shows how useless his re-election would be. Kavanaugh being on the Supreme Court is a disaster, and it's kind of evident you do not realize that since your "long term" thinking is really just short sighted. The LGBTQ community, women, people of color, the disabled, and sexual assault and rape survivors are just a few of the demographics that will suffer because of Kavanaugh. A spineless two faced back stabbing old fool like Manchin staying on the senate is not worth harming millions of people just to win some shit senate race in WV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Collins is a fucking garbage monster, she really needed a self-serving speech to try and justify her decision? She deserves the hatred and vitriol she will get in Maine and around the country. She has betrayed her constituents and proven herself a liar, she knows full well where Kavanaugh stands on abortion, she knows he is Trump stooge, she knows he is a liar, she knows that the FBI probe was a joke, fuck this moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnot OG Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, Morpheus said: Collins is a fucking garbage monster, she really needed a self-serving speech to try and justify her decision? She deserves the hatred and vitriol she will get in Maine and around the country. She has betrayed her constituents and proven herself a liar, she knows full well where Kavanaugh stands on abortion, she knows he is Trump stooge, she knows he is a liar, she knows that the FBI probe was a joke, fuck this moron. She's a repulican. what do you expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 I thought in the end it would go the other way, Collins a no and Murkowski a yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bonnot OG said: She's a repulican. what do you expect? I expected her to vote for him. I did not expect this song and dance where she cherry picks facts to promote Kav and defend herself. This is going to be worse for her than if she just voted without explanation. This idiot is going on about the ABA when they just announced today that they were going to review their evaluation. Her bullshit is not up to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 No, he actually doesn't need this to win re-election. He's 72% on NARAL's Pro-choice list. The closest Republican is Collins at 45%. And there's a host of other topics where Manchin is decidedly more to the left than your average Republican. Wishing him to lose his re-election bid is literally cutting off your nose to spite your face. It's nonsense that no one should take seriously. You don't have to love every Democrat. But you need to know what's actually in the best interests of liberals, and that's as many Democrats -- even shakey Democrats -- as possible in the Senate this go-round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Interesting perspective on Manchin from a friend who's from WV: Quote Joe Manchin is a reminder that West Virginia is the last holdout of Blue Dog Democrats. He's basically a Republican across the board except that he's ostensibly pro-union. He also lost the Democratic primary for governor of WV in 1996 to a progressive but then sunk her campaign by convincing party leaders to support the Republican, Cecil Underwood, who - no joke - was running again 40 years after his first term. Underwood won and Manchin eventually landed the governorship himself, then a seat in the Senate. I'd say West Virginia deserves better than him, but as a native son I'm not entirely sure it does. The state is run by interests strangling the last bit of profit out of dying industries, and has the 4th-oldest median age (the oldest outside of notoriously crotchety northern New England). My family left to seek prosperity just like so many families have done for decades. What's left is the grifters and their marks without the means to relocate. Manchin is clearly in the former camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 In other news the cop was actually convicted in the Laquan McDonald case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 15 minutes ago, Morpheus said: Collins is a fucking garbage monster, she really needed a self-serving speech to try and justify her decision? She deserves the hatred and vitriol she will get in Maine and around the country. She has betrayed her constituents and proven herself a liar, she knows full well where Kavanaugh stands on abortion, she knows he is Trump stooge, she knows he is a liar, she knows that the FBI probe was a joke, fuck this moron. Personally, Graham would be higher up my shit list of Republicans. But that's more down to me remembering his support for the oped that female republican vote, on why she can't vote Twitler. That was in the aftermath of the Billy Bush Bangbus Tapes. So I find Graham way more galling atm. But that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 1 minute ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: Personally, Graham would be higher up my shit list of Republicans. But that's more down to me remembering his support for the oped that female republican vote, on why she can't vote Twitler. That was in the aftermath of the Billy Bush Bangbus Tapes. So I find Graham way more galling atm. But that's just me. Oh, I have nothing but contempt for Graham, I am more just baffled with Collins. Her speech will be picked apart, the bullshit highlighted, and the response will be even more vicious than it would have been if she hadn’t done this act of political seppuku. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 This speech is bad. Hope there is a reckoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 Just now, Mexal said: This speech is bad. Hope there is a reckoning. “I was always a “yes”, I hear your concerns and I do not care” She is turning “fuck you, voters” into a prog rock epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnot OG Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, Ran said: He's 72% on NARAL's Pro-choice list. The closest Republican is Collins at 45%. And there's a host of other topics where Manchin is decidedly more to the left than your average Republican. Wishing him to lose his re-election bid is literally cutting off your nose to spite your face. It's nonsense that no one should take seriously. You don't have to love every Democrat. But you need to know what's actually in the best interests of liberals, and that's as many Democrats -- even shakey Democrats -- as possible in the Senate this go-round. Yea, and Kavanaugh being voted in is not that. So, sorry, Manchin is not helping the best interest of liberals voting him in. The damage Kavanaugh is going to do outweighs any positives a piece of garbage like Manchin brings to the table. Kavanaugh has been denounced by so much of the American legal world, his own educators, tens of thousands of religious congregations, even friends and acquaintances, yet these crusty old white motherfuckers in the senate will still vote him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudguard Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 I doubt Collins will face any significant blowback from this. She isn't up for reelection until 2020 and she easily won in 2014 (68.5% to 31.5%). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 It's one vote, among many votes. You get a Republican, you will get a vote 100% with the Republican party line for the next six years. You get Manchin, you get a vote that's at least 50% with the Democrats (probably more, honestly). And if the Democrats manage to win the Senate thanks to Manchin, that 50% will have an outsized effect because the Democrats will be able to tie things up in committee, have control over oversight, launch investigations, etc. Those are your only two choices. Don't have to like them, just have to realize that if you want to give the Democrats more power to oppose Trump and the GOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 1 hour ago, IheartIheartTesla said: Heitkamp needs support for reelection too, and her vote was a no. AND she is underwater in the polls right now while Manchin is up by a fair bit. So actually he has a bit more wiggle room to vote no.....and he may not. I liked 538's take on this, where because he's up Manchin is probably risk-averse, whereas Heitkamp is down and thus might as well shoot for the fences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 5, 2018 Share Posted October 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, Bonnot OG said: Yea, and Kavanaugh being voted in is not that. So, sorry, Manchin is not helping the best interest of liberals voting him in. The damage Kavanaugh is going to do outweighs any positives a piece of garbage like Manchin brings to the table. But it doesn't outweigh the alternative, which would be a conservative that votes with Trump about 95% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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