US Politics: Dead Pimps Need Not Apply

[Fragile Bird]

1 hour ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

I have to say, I would be very queasy to claim a victory by these means. "Every vote counts" includes those 30000 R votes who would be disenfranchised by such a decision; not to mention it isn't their fault the order was illegal (also not their fault the hurricane happened).  Anyway. this whole election is turning out to be a fiasco, that state is unprepared in any way to be of such importance to who governs the nation (or even itself).

Except it's 147 votes. I don't feel queasy about that if 20 or 30 or 50 thousand votes get thrown out for 'I don't like the signature'.

Think about the fact that Florida is in hurricane alley and hurricane season goes to the end of November. If the citizens of Florida can't be bothered to tell their elected representatives to make provisions in the event of hurricanes, why change things now?

[IheartIheartTesla]

Ojeda just declared his candidacy for the Presidency (as a Democrat, I feel compelled to add, since he admits to not having voted for a Democrat for President in quite a while). If he can, why not Beto?

[Ormond]

2 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Ojeda just declared his candidacy for the Presidency (as a Democrat, I feel compelled to add, since he admits to not having voted for a Democrat for President in quite a while). If he can, why not Beto?

I don't think anyone on this thread has said that Beto (or Ojeda or any American over 35) CAN'T run for President as a Democrat. Even Trump could. The question is whether or not they'd be a good candidate. 

[IheartIheartTesla]

Just now, Fragile Bird said:

Except it's 147 votes. I don't feel queasy about that if 20 or 30 or 50 thousand votes get thrown out for 'I don't like the signature'.

Think about the fact that Florida is in hurricane alley and hurricane season goes to the end of November. If the citizens of Florida can't be bothered to tell their elected representatives to make provisions in the event of hurricanes, why change things now?

I agree, 147 votes is small potatoes, the earlier post made it seem like it was 30k votes (still, I feel those 147 votes should be counted).

I'm not sure I agree with the way the second part is framed, the onus is never on the citizens to inform officials to make provisions for unforeseen events. For instance, if the wildfires in California had happened a month ago we might be having a different conversation. Not to mention many catastrophes, and more importantly their magnitude and place of impact are difficult to predict and no place in the US is exempt from some threat or the other.

[IheartIheartTesla]

2 minutes ago, Ormond said:

I don't think anyone on this thread has said that Beto (or Ojeda or any American over 35) CAN'T run for President as a Democrat. Even Trump could. The question is whether or not they'd be a good candidate. 

Ojeda lost his election, which is why I made the comparison. I dont think I said anyone on this thread said Beto cant run, so there is that too.

[Guest]

Since we're gaming out 2020 primary candidates, might as well throw this out there:  Longtime Clinton advisor Mark Penn says Clinton will throw her hat into the ring in 2020.

I seriously hope he wrote that in the middle of a 3 day cocaine bender and that this doesn't actually become a thing.

[aceluby]

4 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Since we're gaming out 2020 primary candidates, might as well throw this out there:  Longtime Clinton advisor Mark Penn says Clinton will throw her hat into the ring in 2020.

I seriously hope he wrote that in the middle of a 3 day cocaine bender and that this doesn't actually become a thing.

My wife has voted for her for President in 3 different elections and knows she could never vote for her a 4th time, regardless of how much she wants to see her become President.

[Kalbear]

5 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Since we're gaming out 2020 primary candidates, might as well throw this out there:  Longtime Clinton advisor Mark Penn says Clinton will throw her hat into the ring in 2020.

I seriously hope he wrote that in the middle of a 3 day cocaine bender and that this doesn't actually become a thing.

Mark Penn is probably the worst person on the planet to listen to as far as that goes. He's the same one who called Obama 'all sizzle, no steak' and said that he has less chances to win than Attila the Hun. And that was in 2007. 

[Gone and Quite Forgotten]

Shit, maybe Elizabeth Warren really shouldn't run if people still think the big, scary Clinton lady is coming for them.

[karaddin]

1 hour ago, The Great Unwashed said:

My reason for thinking O'Rourke would be a good candidate to run against Trump that has nothing to do with him being a white male is this:  Trump sucks up all the oxygen in the room when it comes to press coverage. Every single news outlet breathlessly reports every stupid utterance that is inflicted upon us by his mouth or fingers. From my perspective, O'Rourke appeared to be the only national candidate this year who was able to create his own oxygen when it came to press coverage. Now I'm sure institutional bias played a role in that, but being able to do that will be an essential component for anyone who ends up going against Trump in 2020. Maybe he won't run, or maybe someone else will come along who is able to create press coverage more effectively, but I think that will be the key factor to winning in 2020, barring a bad recession.

Thanks for this post as a whole. I understand the sensitivity over Bernie Bro thing - they are real, but they're far from every man that supported Sanders. They're a particular group of guys online that are sexist assholes and probably voted for Trump in the general and the use of the term should have been restricted to people behaving in that way.

To the quoted part - I don't disagree with you at all. The institutional bias is a thing and it's definitely not going away in a 2020 election, and if he emerges from the primary as the one most able to unite the party then he should be the nominee. The issues arise when there's the perception that the party had its fingers on the scale and other candidates never even got a fair chance, so I think the party needs to do a better job than 2016 of showing this is happening.

I'd like other candidates to show dedication to the cause by throwing their support behind the nominee once it's clear who that is, and being proactive in ensuring their supporters do as well. That all presupposes proper elections even happen though.

Let's Get Kraken - I don't think Warren should run, the stars aligned against her and she's missed her window. I feel the same about Biden too, they aren't the faces needed to turn enough people out to wash over the voter suppression walls.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, lokisnow said:

Actually I think pence and his cabinet will invoke the constitutional amendment to remove him from office if that happens, and pence becomes president for two months.

Well this begs the question, will the traditional "normal" Republicans continue to follow Trump off of a cliff or will they actually stand up to him for a change? So far they've largely refused to do so. 

[DMC]

1 hour ago, The Great Unwashed said:

 Longtime Clinton advisor Mark Penn says Clinton will throw her hat into the ring in 2020.

It should be emphasized that "longtime advisor" should be in the past tense.  Penn hasn't been any type of advisor for Hillary since he ran her campaign into the ground as chief strategist back in 2008.  He has no inside information, and is Hillary's version of Dick Morris in terms of bitter and politically sociopathic former aides.

[lokisnow]

58 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Well this begs the question, will the traditional "normal" Republicans continue to follow Trump off of a cliff or will they actually stand up to him for a change? So far they've largely refused to do so. 

Ah but they only follow until he loses. If it’s clear he loses and it’s not close and Fox News is reporting the same map as the other networks? Well there is no reason to go lemming with him if he’s a loser, it’ll be like high school drama but faster and with bigger stakes and Pence as the chief mean girl.

[karaddin]

3 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

Ah but they only follow until he loses. If it’s clear he loses and it’s not close and Fox News is reporting the same map as the other networks? Well there is no reason to go lemming with him if he’s a loser, it’ll be like high school drama but faster and with bigger stakes and Pence as the chief mean girl.

I'm really surprised that your view on this stands in such contrast to your normal negative outlook. I really don't see this happening, Trump declaring the election void and being supported by the military and the police (functionally another military) isn't Trump losing in a way that will dislodge them, it's just another kind of winning. It's only if the armed forces don't support him that he's failing to win.

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

it’ll be like high school drama but faster and with bigger stakes and Pence as the chief mean girl.

But then Pence wouldn't be allowed to eat with himself.

[Kalbear]

Just now, karaddin said:

I'm really surprised that your view on this stands in such contrast to your normal negative outlook. I really don't see this happening, Trump declaring the election void and being supported by the military and the police (functionally another military) isn't Trump losing in a way that will dislodge them, it's just another kind of winning. It's only if the armed forces don't support him that he's failing to win.

Yeah, especially surprising given that we are seeing, right this minute, Republicans backing the 'voting only on election day' rhetoric and getting pissed off that Arizona isn't doing that - even though they know that that's a likely loser. Or maybe because of that.

[Gone and Quite Forgotten]

9 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Yeah, especially surprising given that we are seeing, right this minute, Republicans backing the 'voting only on election day' rhetoric and getting pissed off that Arizona isn't doing that - even though they know that that's a likely loser. Or maybe because of that.

The workout our checks and balances are getting feels akin to what I imagine the grim satisfaction of finally using the emergency fire extinguisher must be like.

[OldGimletEye]

The Republican Party

When all else fails, it will just make shit up.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/12/18088990/john-mccain-republicans-house-midterms-health-care

Quote

Writing in today’s Wall Street Journal, recently defeated House Republican Jason Lewis of Minnesota offers a surprising explanation for why his party lost control of his chamber in the midterms: It was all John McCain’s fault.

”The Republican Party lost its House majority on July 28, 2017, when Sen. John McCain ended the party’s seven-year quest to repeal ObamaCare,” Lewis’s op-ed begins.”McCain’s last-minute decision prompted a ‘green wave’ of liberal special-interest money, which was used to propagate false claims that the House plan ‘gutted coverage for people with pre-existing conditions.’”

 

Quote

Maybe Republicans were trying to alleviate the preexisting condition problem, as Lewis writes. But if that was their goal, they didn’t do a very good job. The AHCA would have allowed states to waive out of Obamacare’s requirement to charge sick and healthy people the same prices. That would absolutely exacerbate “the pre-existing condition problem,” by allowing insurers to charge those people higher premiums.

 

Quote

As NBC’s Benjy Sarlin points out, the Congressional Budget Office estimated that annual premiums for a 64-year-old making $26,500 would rise from $1,700 under Obamacare to $16,100 under the Republican plan. Raising premiums by 850 percent for low-income seniors doesn’t exactly seem like “evening the playing field” — but does feel like an awfully tough headline Republicans would have had to spend months fighting against if the AHCA had passed.

 

[Zorral]

3 hours ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Since we're gaming out 2020 primary candidates, might as well throw this out there:  Longtime Clinton advisor Mark Penn says Clinton will throw her hat into the ring in 2020.

I seriously hope he wrote that in the middle of a 3 day cocaine bender and that this doesn't actually become a thing.

Please.  Please.  NO!  How many times must she go out there to prove to the voters and the world that she's unelectable to the office of POTUS?  And by now, even her slickywicky spouse couldn't get elected.

[Kalbear]

Just now, Zorral said:

Please.  Please.  NO!  How many times must she go out there to prove to the voters and the world that she's unelectable to the office of POTUS?  And by now, even her slickywicky spouse couldn't get elected.

To be REALLY FUCKING CLEAR, since people apparently can't read - this guy is entirely full of shit. He hasn't been in contact with her since 2008 in any professional capacity. This is what HE wants. She does not want this, and isn't going to go for it.