Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

[Beardy the Wildling]

21 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Show-only I don't see any character assassination. Stannis was not a main character, he had his flaw from the beginning on, his crazy devotion to Melisandre and her vision. I liked the Stannis arc and burning Shireen was one of the most moving scenes of the series. Back then nobody moaned about a bad storyline. Don't compare it to the books, just see the Stannis arc in the show. I have no issues with that.

Dorne was never important in TV. We have more important and well-depicted characters in GoT than any other show and more Dorne was not necessary. They could even had skipped the Myrcella story altogether and just have her murdered. The Dorne part is not essential in the show. I don't know what you moan about. The show leaves some story lines out, yes. So what? Lady Stoneheart is missing, too. No problem for the show. Sana/Ramsay was a great change, for example, too.

I don't talk about D&D. Have you understood my explanation that I do not defend D&D?!

Daenerys' turn was to be expected. Yes, it was not told in the best possible fashion. But many people here claim it was unexpected and entirely out-of-character. That's outright bullshitting. Do you accept that Daenerys turning to the dark side was to be expected?

If Dorne wasn't important, they shouldn't have included it, simple as. As for Stannis, I'd argue that yes, it was, especially given they did that laughable BS where they make Stannis hug his daughter just so it's even more 'subversive' when he burns her over Ser Twenty Goodmen. Speaking of him, Ramsay was an incredibly laughable Villain Sue. Yet you claim it was good writing.

I don't think you realise that in defending the show's writing, you're defending D&D's decisions. Because the show's writing was D&D's decision.

Also, regardless of the outcome being acceptable (Dany going mad), the execution really is all that matters. You seem like the kind of person who views stories as a set of wiki points. 'This happens, this happens, this happens, and because of all these are acceptable, the story is acceptable'. Not true. Not even close. How the events of a story happen is infinitely more important than the whats. Anyone can stick to basic plot points.

It's like if I were told to adapt Romeo and Juliet, and were told that Romeo and Juliet fall in love, Romeo had an ex-lover named Rosalind, a witty best friend named Mercutio who he causes the death of, has a man from Juliet's family called Tybalt as an antagonist, and eventually, both Romeo and Juliet die.

Then, in response, I made it so Romeo killed Mercutio himself because he mocked Rosalind, Romeo and Juliet are only a fling before Romeo goes back to Rosalind while saying 'To be honest, I never really cared about Mercutio', Tybalt becomes the main bad guy and randomly decides to eat babies when earlier he was only hot-headed and merciless, and in the end, Tybalt successfully kills Romeo, but Juliet kills Tybalt in a murder-suicide as revenge.

See how nonsensical a story can be while sticking to plot points that are ostensibly fine on their own? Your 'can we agree this plot point in isolation makes sense' rhetoric is a flawed premise from the offset, so you can stop spamming it and acting like it's not been shot down a million times.

[Ser Hedge]

errr .... this is a Rant thread? ahem ... (polite cough) ... a safe space for ranting?

[Kajjo]

1 minute ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

I don't think you realise that in defending the show's writing, you're defending D&D's decisions. Because the show's writing was D&D's decision.

I agree that the writing for S8 was below standard, but the writing in S1-S6 was fine. I liked the Stannis arc and I particularly liked the Ramsay/Sansa story line. 

D&D did some really good story additions back then, e.g. the Tywin/Arya dialogues in Harrenhal. 

[Beardy the Wildling]

13 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

I agree that the writing for S8 was below standard, but the writing in S1-S6 was fine. I liked the Stannis arc and I particularly liked the Ramsay/Sansa story line. 

D&D did some really good story additions back then, e.g. the Tywin/Arya dialogues in Harrenhal. 

I respectfully disagree regarding Stannis (who went from reasonable man to daughter-burning idiot over a camp attack when he was apparently two minutes away from Winterfell, and Ramsay abandoned the tactically superior position inside Winterfell to meet them on the field... twice, and is only punished for it once, unsurprisingly the time the 'good guys' attack) and Ramsay/Sansa (Littlefinger was made into a complete idiot just to facilitate a shocking scene with a character we knew).

However, once upon a time, when D&D had GRRM (who isn't perfect, but better than these hacks) on board to keep them measured, they had semi-decent additions, but even then, they had the stink of... their later works all over them. Like Oberyn living in a brothel and Littlefinger monologuing while two prostitutes practice on each other.

[Beardy the Wildling]

17 minutes ago, Ser Hedge said:

errr .... this is a Rant thread? ahem ... (polite cough) ... a safe space for ranting?

Kajjo has the burning need to defend bad poosies and Dany kinda forgetting about the iron fleet, even on reserved rant spaces.

[Kajjo]

48 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

who went from reasonable man to daughter-burning idiot

• Locking away his really sweet and clever daughter in the catacombs for years is sane for you?
• To fall for a witch who claims you are the saviour appears sane to you?
• To impregnate a witch like Melisandre to bear a shadow to kill his younger brother seems sane to you?
• Accepting burning non-believers on the stake appears sane to you? He had his doubts back than, but was mentally captured by Melisandre.

Stannis was, at least in the show, a mentally unstable man to begin with. All of the early scenes of him were weird.

He was very religious in the sense of the Lord of Light and tolerated blood magic to kill three enemies, one of them Jeoffrey. No matter whether it really worked. Stannis was portrayed as a religious nut case right from the start. In show this is consistent and crazily believable.

54 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Ramsay/Sansa (Littlefinger was made into a complete idiot just to facilitate a shocking scene with a character we knew).

How is Baelish an idiot to sell Sansa to Ramsay? He most probably knew what he did.

[Ser Hedge]

3 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

• Locking away his really sweet and clever daughter in the catacombs for years is sane for you?
• To fall for a witch who claims you are the saviour appears sane to you?
• To impregnate a witch like Melisandre to bear a shadow to kill his younger brother seems sane to you?
• Accepting burning non-believers on the stake appears sane to you? He had his doubts back than, but was mentally captured by Melisandre.

Stannis was, at least in the show, a mentally unstable man to begin with. All of the early scenes of him were weird.

He was very religious in the sense of the Lord of Light and tolerated blood magic to kill three enemies, one of them Jeoffrey. No matter whether it really worked. Stannis was portrayed as a religious nut case right from the start. In show this is consistent and crazily believable.

How is Baelish an idiot to sell Sansa to Ramsay? He most probably knew what he did.

Ok now, this is a rant thread, so please if you need to debate it, do it somewhere else. Thank You.

[Beardy the Wildling]

16 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

How is Baelish an idiot to sell Sansa to Ramsay? He most probably knew what he did.

Because he gave away a key to the North to a person who has no impetus to become allies with him and claimed to Sansa that marrying the Boltons would somehow enable her to 'avenge' her family? It was moronic.

[Beardy the Wildling]

35 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

• Locking away his really sweet and clever daughter in the catacombs for years is sane for you?
• To fall for a witch who claims you are the saviour appears sane to you?
• To impregnate a witch like Melisandre to bear a shadow to kill his younger brother seems sane to you?
• Accepting burning non-believers on the stake appears sane to you? He had his doubts back than, but was mentally captured by Melisandre.

Stannis was, at least in the show, a mentally unstable man to begin with. All of the early scenes of him were weird.

He was very religious in the sense of the Lord of Light and tolerated blood magic to kill three enemies, one of them Jeoffrey. No matter whether it really worked. Stannis was portrayed as a religious nut case right from the start. In show this is consistent and crazily believable.

To be fair, you're right that Stannis was always consistently portrayed as worse than his book counterpart (Renly outright said he'd enjoy killing Stannis in the books, prompting an understandable retaliation, Stannis is probably an atheist and views Melisandre's magic as a means to an end, he only burns statues to the seven and traitors/capial criminals) but wrong to think that it's good writing to go 'Look at how much Stannis loves his daughter, LOL FOOLED YOU ONTO THE PYRE SHE GOES'. It isn't even portrayed as being for a good reason (unlike, say, taking out a powerful adversary like Renly), Winterfell was apparently 20 minutes away.

[kissdbyfire]

When did this thread turn into a discussion thread? Why am I reading explanations on how awesome the show is, and how things make perfect sense?

[divica]

1 hour ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

I respectfully disagree regarding Stannis (who went from reasonable man to daughter-burning idiot over a camp attack when he was apparently two minutes away from Winterfell, and Ramsay abandoned the tactically superior position inside Winterfell to meet them on the field... twice, and is only punished for it once, unsurprisingly the time the 'good guys' attack) and Ramsay/Sansa (Littlefinger was made into a complete idiot just to facilitate a shocking scene with a character we knew).

I think the stannis idea was good but its execution was terrible.

I like the idea of stannis sacrificing shereen for a greater porpuse. It can be to garantee his victory against someone because he believes he is AA and is destined to defeat the others and therefore can t die or in order to garantee some early victory agains the others. Him doing it without the feeling of certain death if he doesn t burn her is just wrong.

And the problem with sansa is that the whole series of events that led to the wedding was incredibly stupid. There wasn t a plan behind their actions! Hell I would be happy if sansa wanted to marry ramsay and then poison the boltons and become the warden of the north… And even worse is that this brillant idea completly eliminated the vale from the story and made sansa destroy jon, LF and arya's story arcs. Wherever sansa was the story of other characters sufered...

[The Fattest Leech]

Friends, Ranters, Countryfolk... let's keep this train rolling without any bumps in the tracks.

This is a rant without repercussions thread

[Dragons Are Real]

3 hours ago, Kajjo said:

I agree that the writing for S8 was below standard, but the writing in S1-S6 was fine. I liked the Stannis arc and I particularly liked the Ramsay/Sansa story line. 

D&D did some really good story additions back then, e.g. the Tywin/Arya dialogues in Harrenhal. 

No.  Season 5 on was painful at points because the writing was absolutely garbage.  Sometimes the actors could make up for it, but nothing can make up for crap like Arya's "training" turning into the terminator chase.

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

When did this thread turned into a discussion thread? Why am I reading explanations on how awesome the show is, and how things make perfect sense?

A certain someone can't help themselves.

Honestly, the Stannis storyline may, possibly, have had some potential, but two things made it turn to soft-serve icecream on top of a pile of stinking garbage in the summer sun.  First, the "make it appear he loves his daughter he's kept locked up most of her life right before the *BIG SHOCKING TWIST* burnination.  And second, the dickbag creators literally saying publicly they absolutely DESPISED Stannis's character in the books, the actor attempting to reconcile his show character with his book character, and this eventually lead them to also hate the actor to the point they wanted him to go out like a bitch.

That's not just purposeful bad practice when writing, it's self-destructive at a near nuclear level, and it's not the only time they did it.  Barristan comes to mind instantly as another example of an actor that loved the character, tried to discuss potential with the creators, and got the early axe for it just so they could swing the mighty dick of power and prove how in charge they were.

Anybody thinking the end result is good writing doesn't really have a leg to stand on.

[divica]

41 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

Honestly, the Stannis storyline may, possibly, have had some potential, but two things made it turn to soft-serve icecream on top of a pile of stinking garbage in the summer sun.  First, the "make it appear he loves his daughter he's kept locked up most of her life right before the *BIG SHOCKING TWIST* burnination.  And second, the dickbag creators literally saying publicly they absolutely DESPISED Stannis's character in the books, the actor attempting to reconcile his show character with his book character, and this eventually lead them to also hate the actor to the point they wanted him to go out like a bitch.

By the way. S8 is so so so bad that it also makes stanis storyline even worse. Why didn t mel use the swords on fire trick or the incenerating stuff magic there? Wouldn t it be more usefull than ascrificing shireen?

[Beardy the Wildling]

52 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

No.  Season 5 on was painful at points because the writing was absolutely garbage.  Sometimes the actors could make up for it, but nothing can make up for crap like Arya's "training" turning into the terminator chase.

The Arya chase scene, and Arya post-season 4 in general, was utterly unsalvageable. I don't know why D&D thought Arya was a sympathetic viewpoint for King's Landing's destruction when literally any extra would be more sympathetic than her. Then again, I think one of the Ds badly wanted something from Maisie Williams, given how she was thrown Ed Sheeran and the Night King kill, as well as a handsome bloke getting on one knee and telling her she's beautiful.

52 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

That's not just purposeful bad practice when writing, it's self-destructive at a near nuclear level, and it's not the only time they did it.  Barristan comes to mind instantly as another example of an actor that loved the character, tried to discuss potential with the creators, and got the early axe for it just so they could swing the mighty dick of power and prove how in charge they were.

Anybody thinking the end result is good writing doesn't really have a leg to stand on.

D&D are such a spiteful little pair, especially Benioff. He outright bragged about:

1: Not having any real writing qualifications and tricking GRRM.

2: Thinking that themes are stupid.

3: 'Wanting to kill Barristan off even more' after his actor was looking forward to getting a juicy plot.

Fuck him. Just fuck him.

[Nowy Tends]

4 hours ago, Kajjo said:

 I liked the Stannis arc

Come on, it's not an arc, It's a waterslide towards the exit. Good run and bye bye, baddy Stannis.

[Nowy Tends]

3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

When did this thread turned into a discussion thread? 

Yeah, discussion is for 8th grade book reports, it is known! 

[Ser Hedge]

Can I rant about the rant thread no longer being a rant thread ? 

[It_spelt_Magalhaes]

Stuff this. For a show that wanted to make people think, we ended up having either 'ha! Fooled ya!' storylines or what passes for 'hints' in D&D speak. 

See the Arya thing. Paint by numbers. 

[Beardy the Wildling]

27 minutes ago, It_spelt_Magalhaes said:

Stuff this. For a show that wanted to make people think, we ended up having either 'ha! Fooled ya!' storylines or what passes for 'hints' in D&D speak. 

See the Arya thing. Paint by numbers. 

Not only that, it actively punishes you for having paid attention and thought about the show. To quote Glidus:

Another quote from this vid that's fitting is 'I'm guessing that's my fault for having paid attention'. Because... yeah, that's what D&D think, you're a dumb nerd for doing a better job than them.