Jump to content
Fragile Bird

US Politics: The Accountability Problem

Recommended Posts

18 minutes ago, dornishpen said:

And that's exactly what her tweet dog whistled.

I don't think identifying the lobby group that influences MCs is dog whistling.  Like I said, I think it's really really stupid.  But an accurate description isn't a dog whistle, at least in the regular vernacular.

20 minutes ago, dornishpen said:

what made it antisemitic was the "its all about the benjamins" bit.

Not sure I'd characterize that as anti-semitic, but that definitely bothered me the most.  It was very stupid.  Like something I'd say on here when I'm wasted.  Which means, c'mon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Funny you should say that. When discussing Trump's reaction to her tweet, demanding she resign, they then ran a clip from a speech Trump gave before a Jewish organization (sorry, didn't catch the name) in which he told them something like "You don't like me because I'm not asking for money from you because you like to control politicians".

Shouldn't he resign, then? Wasn't that an even clearer antisemitic statement?

Trump is absolutely antisemitic, there have been numerous comments over the years.  The comment you're referring to happened at some Jewish Republican donor group event. I'm not sure why you think I'm a Trump supporter. Because I criticize something Omar said I must automatically be a Trump supporter? 

Trump should resign or be impeached for many things.

Edited by dornishpen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, dornishpen said:

Trump is absolutely antisemitic, there have been numerous comments over the years.  The comment you're referring to happened at some Jewish Republican donor group event. I'm not sure why you think I'm a Trump supporter. Because I criticize something Omar said I must automatically be a Trump supporter? 

Trump should resign or be impeached for many things.

Yup. Because people who pop up out of the blue in this thread swinging usually are partisan.

If you're not, then I apologize. But Let's see you post here 10 or 20 times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, DMC said:

I don't think identifying the lobby group that influences MCs is dog whistling.  Like I said, I think it's really really stupid.  But an accurate description isn't a dog whistle, at least in the regular vernacular.

Not sure I'd characterize that as anti-semitic, but that definitely bothered me the most.  It was very stupid.  Like something I'd say on here when I'm wasted.  Which means, c'mon.

Well there is general consensus among the many Jews I know (mostly left wing and secular, some left wing and orthodox and a few centrist) that it's antisemitic, obviously there's not 100% agreement because that just doesn't happen, and many of us (including me) don't think that she's irredeemably antisemitic . But I believe that we Jews have the right to decide what's antisemitic, just as black people have the right to decide what's racist towards them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, dornishpen said:

Well there is general consensus among the many Jews I know (mostly left wing and secular, some left wing and orthodox and a few centrist) that it's antisemitic, obviously there's not 100% agreement because that just doesn't happen, and many of us (including me) don't think that she's irredeemably antisemitic . But I believe that we Jews have the right to decide what's antisemitic, just as black people have the right to decide what's racist towards them.

Well go you then.  That doesn't change my opinion that criticizing AIPAC doesn't mean you're an anti-semite.  At all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, DMC said:

Well go you then.  That doesn't change my opinion that criticizing AIPAC doesn't mean you're an anti-semite.  At all.

I didn't say that criticizing AIPAC makes someone antisemitic, in fact in my original post (which you quoted several posts ago) I very clearly said that one can criticize them without being antisemitic. What made it antisemitic was the "its all about the benjamins" which dog whistles the antisemitic canard of Jews with money manipulating things behind scenes.

You all are completely strawmanning me here.

Edited by dornishpen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, dornishpen said:

What made it antisemitic was the "its all about the benjamins" which dog whistles the antisemitic canard of Jews with money manipulating things behind scenes.

Like I said, the "Benjamins" tweet bothered me most as well.  If that's antisemitic to you, fair enough.  I'm sorry.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It should be noted that Omar has also criticized the Saudi Arabia government as well, so using the logic of her critics, that would make her an Islamophobe, which she clearly isn't.

Edited by KingintheNorth4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, KingintheNorth4 said:

It should be noted that Oman has also criticized the Saudi Arabia government as well, so using the logic of her critics, that would make her an Islamophobe, which she clearly isn't.

Her name is Ilhan Omar, stop calling her Oman like she's the country on the southeastern Arabian peninsula.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, DMC said:

 

This, like, is the exact opposite of local politics.  The entirety of the House Democratic leadership didn't admonish her because of local politics.

Just in that district, the tensions between the Jewish and Muslim constituents have a thing, it has been going on since Keith Ellison, so the national bent just happens to be local too.  I mean, I have lived in that district and know people in that district.  (I am in Minnesota) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Guy Kilmore said:

Just in that district, the tensions between the Jewish and Muslim constituents have a thing, it has been going on since Keith Ellison, so the national bent just happens to be local too.  I mean, I have lived in that district and know people in that district.  (I am in Minnesota) 

I get that.  But that's not what this is about.  Unfortunately, now it may be about every Dem having to condemn BDS, when maybe acceptance could have been a long-term possibility.  This is the national politics effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, KingintheNorth4 said:

It should be noted that Omar has also criticized the Saudi Arabia government as well, so using the logic of her critics, that would make her an Islamophobe, which she clearly isn't.

You should stop strawmanning. I did not say and I have not seen anyone else say that all criticism of AIPAC or Israel is antisemitic, using old antisemitic canards to criticize Israel and AIPAC is what makes her tweets antisemitic. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, dornishpen said:

You should stop strawmanning.

And you should stop trolling.  He wasn't even addressing you in that post, so why are you taking issue? 

Ya give ya take, ya stand ya kneel, at the end what of it?  The facts of life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, dornishpen said:

You should stop strawmanning. I did not say and I have not seen anyone else say that all criticism of AIPAC or Israel is antisemitic, using old antisemitic canards to criticize Israel and AIPAC is what makes her tweets antisemitic. 

Since you apparently know, can you tell me what the antisemitic canards were that she used and what they mean? All I have seen is a tweet referring to 'Benjamin'. Does this refer to a commonly used Jewish name or something?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Since you apparently know, can you tell me what the antisemitic canards were that she used and what they mean? All I have seen is a tweet referring to 'Benjamin'. Does this refer to a commonly used Jewish name or something?

Benjamins is well known slang for $100 bills (because Benjamin Franklin is on them), "it's all about the benjamins" means "it's all about money". Jews and money, Jews being rich, Jews using money to secretly manipulate or control things are all extremely old and common themes in antisemitism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, dornishpen said:

Benjamins is well known slang for $100 bills (because Benjamin Franklin is on them), "it's all about the benjamins" means "it's all about money". Jews and money, Jews being rich, Jews using money to secretly manipulate or control things are all extremely old and common themes in antisemitism.

Oh, wait, you said 'canards', plural. Was there something else as well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, lokisnow said:

and we are probably going to build that 4 billion tunnel and about two thirds of that money is pure rent escalation going into the consultants pocket caused by the gutting of the civil service who really ought to know better.

Don't worry, the politicians out here have learnt from the example and are getting really good at funnelling public money to their donors/mates as well. We're building a rail extension in Sydney as well, and instead of building it in house with the same platform size and gauge, they instead went with a private company and mandated that it had to be a completely different "metro" style train with almost no seats despite it being a long distance commute. This just so happened to require them to shut down the existing stations and refit them to match the new trains, and that will be pushed out to connect to another existing line which will also be shut down and converted.

And the kicker? Gosh darnit, wouldn't you know that these previously publicly owned rail lines are going to be privately operated after all is said and done, so they spend several multiples more than is required just to have to pay a private company to operate rail lines they used to run in house. In typing this post I've just realised I haven't even seen it reported whether the infrastructure will be privately owned/whether they even had to buy it if so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Oh, wait, you said 'canards', plural. Was there something else as well?

Several years ago she tweeted that "Israel has hypnotized the world". Jews as malign sorcerers is another old antisemitic theme. It should be noted that within the past couple weeks she has acknowledged this tweet was antisemitic and apologized. In an interview I saw I thought she seemed genuinely apologetic and committed to leaning more about antisemism and changing her own antisemitic beliefs and stereotypes. After the benjamins thing I'm not so sure anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×