Video Games: Devils Die Twice

[The Anti-Targ]

There was an interesting, albeit short and superficial, BBC radio article about the increasing popularity of E-sports that was re-broadcast on our national public radio station. It's interesting that E-sports is gradually getting more attention in mainstream media (the national public radio station probably has a listener average age of 50 or more). More of the attention is taking it seriously and not being condescending about it, which is quite different to when E-sports was first being mentioned in mainstream media circles. It helps the mainstream to take it seriously when European players, in some games, are earning 6-figure salaries, before tournament winnings, and US players can be in the 7-figure territory. If kids can basically earn enough to retire on by the time they're in their early 20s, through professional gaming, at big live events then it's something more than social awkward loners wasting time in the basement and it's hard to maintain that derisive narrative.

Interesting the reporter noted that a lot of the E-sports players he interviewed were considerably more articulate than traditional sport's professionals. 

[Jace, Extat]

Hey geniuses who bought Anthem. Are you excited for that blue filter expansion? 

I was skeptical at first but Cataclysm just seems like the perfect thing to save the community.

[Rhom]

4 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Hey geniuses who bought Anthem. Are you excited for that blue filter expansion? 

I was skeptical at first but Cataclysm just seems like the perfect thing to save the community.

Bought it at launch.  Have not read anything on Cataclysm.  What I saw last week was something about a limited time event?  Seems foolish.  This game doesn’t need limited runs, it needs more solid permanent content.

[Fez]

It's now 219 and Liu Bei's dream of re-uniting China is getting close to happen; we're definitely at the final hurdle before the mopping up begins.

I ended up getting into a decisive war with Yuan Shao's remaining forces and crushed them, which led to a couple years of moving around and moping up. The end result was Yuan Shu and I ended up splitting up all of his lands, except for a few that my very opportunistic and helpful vassal Kong Rong took. In the aftermath of Shao's fall, Gongsun Du, Zhang Yang, and a couple bandits lords all became my vassals. Zhang Yan became Yuan Shu vassal.

After that I took some time to reconsolidate my forces, massively boost my economy, and start preparing for war with Sun Jian. This was also when I got the events to have Xu Shu, Zhuge Liang, and Pang Tong join my forces, which was a huge boost as well. I also finally got an heir at this point, and it wasn't Liu Chan; it was some kid named Liu Zen. So I guess kids are randomized right now in the game; maybe that'll change with DLC.

Sun Jian was the obvious target as the only unfriendly force I bordered at the time and from the bits of the map I could see of the south, it looked like he'd taken all of historical Wu. Which, considering how divided the rest of the map was, would make him an enormous superpower if he could develop his lands enough. I got started by declaring war on Liu Yao, who held Jian Ye and nothing else (and was the only independent power left down there, not sure how he managed that), to get a foothold south of the river.

That was an easy win, but the turn before I would've declared war on Sun Jian, Yuan Shu let me know that he was in wars with basically everyone else in the game (which was Dong Min and a couple weak allies, a coalition of Ma Chao and 5 otherwise very weak western powers, and Gong Du the last Yellow Turban). He was too useful a buffer and a trading partner to let go, so I agreed to support him in the all wars except against Dong Min; who I had a frosty relationship with, but was still a valuable trading partner.

Yuan Shu lost a couple western territories early, but otherwise held his own. In the mean time, I sent two armies across his lands and Lady Cai's lands (she inherited Liu Baio's land and was part of the western coalition, but somehow stayed out of the war) and into the western Jingzhou/eastern Yizhou where I seized some cities and surrounding lands from Gong Du and forced a peace with the coalition. This peace covered Yuan Shu as well, and I decided he could hold his own against Dong Min while I turned against Sun Jian. I realized I had to move now because taking these new lands so far from my powerbase confirmed my fears, Sun Jian was holding the lands directly south of these as well.

Also, taking those latest cities boosted my prestige enough that I automatically declared myself King; and since I was the first to do so, I also automatically declared myself Emperor. Which led to the Empire of Shu-Han being born. Also, I discovered that when someone declares themself Emperor, the next two most powerful factions also automatically declare themselves Emperors. This, as expected, led to Sun Jian declaring himself Emperor of Wu, and, unexpected, Dong Min declaring himself Emperor of Zhong. I'm not sure if this snapshot decision is the best game design move, because I'm almost certain if they had to wait until they met the criteria to naturally declare an Empire, Yuan Shu would've gotten there long before Dong Min; who has been pretty stagnant for a long time.

And I discovered that when AI factions declare their Empires, they move their capitals to be as far away from the player's capital as possible; which feels too gamey for me. I get the design move, I win by taking both their capitals (and having enough lands) and if I (or another AI faction) wasn't one of the three empires, we can only become one by taking one of the three capitals. But it felt really silly that Sun Jian moved his capital from Chang Sha, which he had massively developed and was central in his lands, to Hepu (think Northern Vietnam) and Dong Min moved his capital from Chang'an, the former Han capital and a massive city too, to distant Wu Wei (think outer western Mongolia).

Lastly I discovered that becoming tanked my relationship not just with the two other Emperors, but with almost everyone else in the game except my vassals. The only ones that stayed friendly were factions that wouldn't care who was emperor, like Zheng Jiang the Bandit Queen (who had been allied to Dong Min previously), which is a neat touch. Even Yuan Shu got real mad at me, but at least he didn't leave the coalition.

Anyway, I got the war started against Sun Jian, sending 6 armies into his lands, two from my western enclave and four straight down from the central plains. I also commanded my vassals to join the war effort. The small ones that could only field one army all sent them to my capital, I guess the AI is programmed to considered it high priority and protect it at all costs event though it was far from the front. While Kong Rong and Gongsun Zan both sent one army to my capital and the rest down the coast towards Sun Jian.

I actually smashed Sun Jian's forces pretty easily in the east, and the west I ran rampant over his mostly undefended lands; only needing to burn out city garrisons. There was one big fight, where I needed reinforcements from Kong Rong to win; but otherwise it was almost always two armies against one. My first real problem was that Ma Chao took advantage of my most of my armies being in the south that he declared war on me again and brought his friends. Yuan Shu didn't want to join the war because of how bad our relationship had gotten and it took some serious bribes to get him on board. As a buffer he tied up most of the enemy forces, but Chao sent a couple armies across the country to get at me anyway. At the time, besides all my armies in the south, I had two up in Yuan Shao's old lands, in case Dong Min ever decided to attack me across the northern mountains and one left in the central plains bordering Yuan Shu. I sent one of my two northern armies towards the border, but they were several turns away; so I raised a new army on the border and another army in the capital. I destroyed one of Chao's armies after some cat-and-mouse, but the other I didn't get a decisive battle against; he sort of moved around aimlessly and eventually retreated back into Yuan Shu's lands. Not sure what happened there.

Between these new armies (which I also gave some of the fancy, expensive troops I unlocked as Emperor) and the cost of rebuilding and restoring public order for all these lands I was taking from Sun Jian, I was getting overextended and my economy was starting to face some serious strain. Also, Yuan Shu saw me as such a growing threat that he made the rather silly decision to leave the coalition even though we were both still at war with Ma Chao. However, right when I was nearing the breaking point, I destroyed Sun Jian's last army I could see on the map, which was commanded by him personally; and I generously released his heir Sun Ce who I had captured in battle. I don't know if that last part was relevant, but during his next time, with no armies I could see and almost a third of his territory lost, Sun Jian offered to abdicate to me.

I accepted, which immediately transferred all his lands (and, it turned out, one last army way over in Hepu) over to me, as well as all his court; except for any that wanted to leave. This made me or my vassals rule about half of China, which I guess made me such a big threat that Dong Min (and Lady Cai for some reason) immediately declared war on me.

So, no rest for the wicked and no time to reconsolidate, I'm sending my forces as quickly as I can back up north and west to face down my various enemies. I'm hoping my border troops and garrisons can hold the line until I can reach them, and I'm really hoping that no rebellions break out in Sun Jian's old lands because I've got no troops to spare to put them down. Liu Bei has bonuses to restore support from the people pretty quickly; but until I do, public order in most of those places is 0. And even once support is back, public order will need to slowly climb up; it's not automatic. So I'm hoping I can run out the clock there.

I'm not actually that worried though, I've been playing on normal, and for the most part the game hasn't been that difficult. I think to some extent I got lucky early on though. By beating Cao Cao when I did, I was able to secure my home base before most other powers did, which was an enormous headstart that I've never given. Also, Kong Rong is powerful; the game consistently ranks him as the 4th most powerful faction in the game (3rd now that Sun Jian is gone). He has a huge income (which I get 35% of) and fields over 5 full armies. There was a good stretch there where he arguably had no business being my vassal, but I guess his character traits meant that he was fulfilling all his coded objectives (make the most money and don't betray people) and so he's stayed loyal. Once I'm done, I'll probably boost the difficulty for the next campaign.

[Corvinus85]

59 minutes ago, Fez said:

snip

Nice rundown. I've yet to get close to finishing a campaign, the closest being now with Kong Rong where I've reached Duke rank.

There's a weird balance to Sun Jian, if you play with his faction, but may apply to the AI. His personal currency, heroism gives you boosts to satisfaction and armies, but implies that you have to fight constantly. All well and good, since southern China is his for the taking. However, I found that settlements more easily surrender to him, thus robbing you of the heroism gains. I suppose it's a way to punish your laziness and desire to not lose men in battle. In terms of the economy, I found that despite all the real estate at his disposal, his economy does not develop quickly. Between all the expenses to develop settlements, and having enough armies to defend your ever expanding territory, the per turn income is never really great. That's also partly because with all kinds of settlements, the temptation is there to issue reforms that give you immediate gains, but long term you don't really develop any of the branches properly.

On the other hand, with Kong Rong, I am filthy rich with far less territory, because of his trade influence perk, and also I wisely concentrated on only the agricultural and commercial branches, to really benefit what I had, thus creating a huge snowball effect. I've won wars against small factions, either taking their territory or vassalizing them, and stayed away from fighting big factions unless part of a coalition or alliance. I expanded on the coast, southwards, even deciding to send a general on an exploratory mission to Taiwan, taking the island and the coast land directly across from it, thus gaining a salt mine and additional breadbasket. Unfortunately, in the latest developments, my long term ally, Liu Bei has become Sun Jian's vassal, thus ending, perhaps, the oldest partnership in the game.

[Corvinus85]

End your speculations

 

[Fez]

5 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Nice rundown. I've yet to get close to finishing a campaign, the closest being now with Kong Rong where I've reached Duke rank.

There's a weird balance to Sun Jian, if you play with his faction, but may apply to the AI. His personal currency, heroism gives you boosts to satisfaction and armies, but implies that you have to fight constantly. All well and good, since southern China is his for the taking. However, I found that settlements more easily surrender to him, thus robbing you of the heroism gains. I suppose it's a way to punish your laziness and desire to not lose men in battle. In terms of the economy, I found that despite all the real estate at his disposal, his economy does not develop quickly. Between all the expenses to develop settlements, and having enough armies to defend your ever expanding territory, the per turn income is never really great. That's also partly because with all kinds of settlements, the temptation is there to issue reforms that give you immediate gains, but long term you don't really develop any of the branches properly.

On the other hand, with Kong Rong, I am filthy rich with far less territory, because of his trade influence perk, and also I wisely concentrated on only the agricultural and commercial branches, to really benefit what I had, thus creating a huge snowball effect. I've won wars against small factions, either taking their territory or vassalizing them, and stayed away from fighting big factions unless part of a coalition or alliance. I expanded on the coast, southwards, even deciding to send a general on an exploratory mission to Taiwan, taking the island and the coast land directly across from it, thus gaining a salt mine and additional breadbasket. Unfortunately, in the latest developments, my long term ally, Liu Bei has become Sun Jian's vassal, thus ending, perhaps, the oldest partnership in the game.

Kong Rong seems really fun. I don't think he'll be my next campaign, since his starting location is so close to Liu Bei's, but I'll eventually get to him. His playstyle appeals to me a lot. I'm usually not as aggressive in these kinds of games as I have been this campaign, but the opportunities just keep presenting themselves to expand. And I've picked my friends well enough (back when I could still have friends) that I was never really the underdog in any wars; it's been a pretty stable expansion.

My only real challenge has been from my own economy. Right before I started the war with Sun Jian I was making over 7k gold per turn and had a surplus of around 40 food per turn (outside of winter). The turn before the war ended, I was losing -2k gold per turn and was losing 9 food per turn. I had been doing various temporary measures to cover my  gold deficit, but it had kept getting worse and I only had a couple turns of gold left in my treasury. Now, I'm back up to earning over 50 food per turn, but earning less than 1k gold per turn. It's going to get worse too, since my populations keep going up and I don't have the funds to expand the cities, which will eventually tank public order and hurt my earnings.

I badly need some money earning reforms. Two turns ago I picked the one that cut salary expenses by 10%, which actually made a big difference to me. I need the one that cuts army upkeep by 10%, but I still need one of the pre-req reforms before I can pick it. I also desperately need to reduce corruption, which taking upwards of 45% of my income in most of my cities, but I don't have the funds to build the corruption-fight buildings. I'm hoping there's still a reform left that reduces corruption automatically, but I think I already picked the only one that does that.

If I can beat Dong Min fast enough though, none of that should really matter. Once I take his capital, if I still need a few more counties to hit 95, there's a lot of easy pickings. Unfortunately, most of my forces are almost as far away from him as the possibly could be.

I may go Bandit Queen next game, or possibly Gong Du; start a western Yellow Turban utopia.

[Jace, Extat]

2 hours ago, Corvinus said:

End your speculations

 

That was... a pretty fucking outstanding teaser.

[A True Kaniggit]

All hail the flaming fist!

[dog-days]

Not sure about this...it could be wonderful. It could be a hack-and-slashy. The teaser didn't really hint at anything that would make me want to play the game, beyond it being called "Baldur's Gate 3" and having a title design that harked back clearly to BG2. 

Also, just read a PC Gamer feature which quotes Swen Vincke of Larian Studios. He says that BG3 may have the origin story feature that Divinity: Original Sin 2 added "to the RPG Genre". I haven't played the Divinity Games (nothing against the studio, just don't have the time or resources). But surely origin stories have been something that RPGs have been toying with for some time? I remember Arcanum having a pick-your-background feature. Also NWN2. And the first Dragon Age game took the whole thing up a notch. 

[GallowKnight]

5 hours ago, Corvinus said:

End your speculations

 

If nothing else, that is one gnarly fucking trailer.

[Gorn]

So what do you guys think of Google Stadia announcement? From a cost-benefit point of view, it seems like a pretty good deal - 4k gaming without an expensive gaming PC. I would be a definite adopter of their Pro service if they can provide something like Netflix for games, but it doesn't seem they will include many free games in the subscription.

[The Anti-Targ]

14 hours ago, dog-days said:

Not sure about this...it could be wonderful. It could be a hack-and-slashy. The teaser didn't really hint at anything that would make me want to play the game, beyond it being called "Baldur's Gate 3" and having a title design that harked back clearly to BG2. 

Also, just read a PC Gamer feature which quotes Swen Vincke of Larian Studios. He says that BG3 may have the origin story feature that Divinity: Original Sin 2 added "to the RPG Genre". I haven't played the Divinity Games (nothing against the studio, just don't have the time or resources). But surely origin stories have been something that RPGs have been toying with for some time? I remember Arcanum having a pick-your-background feature. Also NWN2. And the first Dragon Age game took the whole thing up a notch. 

It said gather your party right at the end, so at face value that at least looks to mean it will be a 4-6 character party based game. That should make it not hack-n-slashy.

[Corvinus85]

Total War: Three Kingdoms – Kong Rong campaign

The year is 218, and a new wave of conflicts has shattered stability. Sun Jian, the Tiger of Jiangdong, has risen in power and with him the Kingdom of Wu. He has declared himself emperor, drawing the ire not only of his rivals, but his allies, as well. Liu Bei, his vassal, was the first to say “No!” to this new tyrant, and declared independence, triggering a cascade of maneuvers from most of the mighty.

In the north, a coalition had formed years ago, to battle oppressors, formed of those who were once outlaws, and those who defended the borders of China. A strange alliance, but the ambitious men who once led those factions are long dead, and cunning ladies now lead. Xin Xiangyue (Gongsun Zan) and Sima Xiangan (Zhang Yan) are the mightiest. They wasted no time inviting Liu Bei into their coalition.

Kong Rong was equally as decisive and swift. He had been in a coalition with the Tiger and with the shrewd Cao Cao, but the wheel has turned. Though old of body, Rong still has a sharp mind. His territory is not large, but enough that people now call him the duke of Qi. Drawn into a war he did not pursue, he had no intention of supporting the tyrant, and switched sides. He abandoned Sun Jian, and, because he had maintained good relations with the northerners, he has been quickly accepted into the coalition as well. And he didn’t stop there – he looked to his vassals, Tao Ying, wedged between his own lands, Liu Shang, on the shores of the Yangtze, and Ma Jiang, in the far west, and issued one command: “Strike!” The hope is that Wu will crumble with attacks from so many directions.

But there are other dangerous players: The Yuan family has long harbored hatred in their hearts for Kong Rong, Liu Bei, and the northerners. Yuan Xi, descended of Shao, and the Dutchy of Zhong (Yuan Shu) may take advantage, and strike at their neighbors from the very heart of China. Time will tell.

Cao Cao remains Sun Jian’s only friend, if he can be called that. With potentially strong enemies to the north and east, and a power-hungry “ally” in the south, Cao has remained silent. Unbeknownst to him, Kong Rong has, long ago, embedded one of his own in Cao’s court, and the man has risen high. Should Cao’s ambition take the better of him, the dagger will come from within.

Kong Rong is old and has no children to which he can leave all that he has built. A grave matter, but his wife is fierce and has friends at court. She will lead, when he is gone. It’s time for one last war. Armies march, and the primary battlegrounds will be the lands washed by the mighty Yangtze. Will the poets change its name to the Hónghé, the Red River?

[KiDisaster]

I'm potentially interested in Stadia for any games that will have crossplay/save. If I can play a game at home on my own hardware, and then pick up right where I left off streaming on my phone or whatever when I'm traveling that would be great. Destiny 2 seems like it'll be good for that since it's included in the Stadia subscription and they've just announced cross save for all platforms. I'm curious to see how well it works. 

On the other hand I don't like the idea of having even less ownership over my games than I already do, and Google in particular being notorious for shutting down projects after a couple of years because they aren't dominating doesn't exactly incentivize me to spend much money on it. 

We know Microsoft is going to be unveiling their own streaming platform next week, and what I'm really hoping for is a partnership with Nintendo to make it available on the Switch. That combined with their Play Anywhere stuff could really sell me on it if it also works well. 

[The Anti-Targ]

I'm not sure a pure streaming device is going to be a big disruption, a lot of gamers still like to own their games, and a lot of console gamers still want to own their games in hardcopy. Gamers like movie buffs are precious about wanting to be able to play their favourite game decades after they were released, being beholden to a faceless corporation to be able to play their favourite games when there is never a guarantee they'll be available permanently is too much of a risk.

A unit that is capable of high quality game streaming, but also provides the traditional means for acquiring games is, I think still got the best chance of succeeding for now.

[A True Kaniggit]

19 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

are precious about wanting to be able to play their favorite game decades after they were released

They can pry my copy of Final Fantasy Tactics out of my cold dead fingers!

[Fez]

I'm not sure how much Google is planning on Stadia appealing to regular gamers, at least at first. A lot of the games they mentioned will have been out for almost a year by the time Stadia launches, and their one exclusive so far is a four-player couch co-op that could appeal to anyone. I suspect they're looking more at people outside the gaming space right now, who haven't had/wanted to spend the money for a console or gaming PC. And if they can establish a foothold and prove viablity, then slower get other gamers to join their ecosystem when it starts becoming time to upgrade.

[The Anti-Targ]

2 hours ago, Fez said:

I'm not sure how much Google is planning on Stadia appealing to regular gamers, at least at first. A lot of the games they mentioned will have been out for almost a year by the time Stadia launches, and their one exclusive so far is a four-player couch co-op that could appeal to anyone. I suspect they're looking more at people outside the gaming space right now, who haven't had/wanted to spend the money for a console or gaming PC. And if they can establish a foothold and prove viablity, then slower get other gamers to join their ecosystem when it starts becoming time to upgrade.

Seems like an extremely slow burn. A gaming system for non-gamers, not much of an elevator pitch. A second gaming system for all gamers is a better elevator pitch.

[Fez]

8 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Seems like an extremely slow burn. A gaming system for non-gamers, not much of an elevator pitch. A second gaming system for all gamers is a better elevator pitch.

They've got the funding for a slow burn, the question is if they've got the patience. But so far Google isn't offering anything that can't be found on other systems, so any second system argument is going to fall on deaf ears. Now of they had some sort of cross-save compatibility with the other systems, letting you pick up where you left off in games while away from home, then they'd have more of an argument. But they haven't talked about anything like that.