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silverwolf22

tommen will be killed by nymeria sand do you think this will happen and is this foreshadowing

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Posted (edited)

 this just popped into my head but does think tommens love of cats is foreshadowing that he will be killed by nymeria sand  ( who uses knives) going out the same way as rhaegar and elias daughter who also had a pet cat and was stabbed to death

Edited by silverwolf22

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I don't see how his love of cats foreshadows Nym? If anything, a cat would be closer to symbolising a LION - aka a Lannister.

However if we are following your logic, it would be more likely that it is foreshadowing ARYA. She takes on the nickname of "Cat" of the Canals (after Catelyn), and even rides on a ship to Braavos called "Nymeria." I don't think that she would kill Tommen as he is a young child though.

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To be honest, I really think the cat thing is a stretch, but I do think the Sand Snakes killing Tommen and Myrcella is quite likely, if Nymeria, as a small council advisor, takes it upon herself to relieve the realm of Young Griff's opponents should Arianne align with him. (It's also no mistake that there are now many pro-Targaryen members from Robert's Rebellion on the council...)

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I thought this was about the direwolf for a moment. As to your question.....perhaps. It's interesting that, at least in my perception, we don't discuss Tommen's (and Myrcella's) manner of death a lot, when a lot of people believe he will die. But how and when? 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, silverwolf22 said:

 this just popped into my head but does think tommens love of cats is foreshadowing that he will be killed by nymeria ( who uses knives) going out the same way as rhaegar and elias daughter who also had a pet cat and was stabbed to death

We are stretching things a bit with your theory.  There are no lines to connect between the two points.  Imaginary dots maybe but not real ones.  Very well.  If you can create dots so can I.  How about this question.  Will Lord Walder's huntsmen find Nymeria's pack and take their pelt?  After all, winter is coming and the Freys are many, they need something to drape over their muddy riverland feet and keep them warm. 

Edited by Great Oshiro

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Ah no.  It's not foreshadowed.  Tommen is not going wolf hunting.  Nymeria is not going to K/L.  The two will never meet.  

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I was thinking that Tommen might have his head crushed by one of faegons men to mirror the death of the real Aegon. 

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We have no clue what kind of man Aegon is.  

9 minutes ago, Makk said:

I was thinking that Tommen might have his head crushed by one of faegons men to mirror the death of the real Aegon. 

 

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11 hours ago, silverwolf22 said:

 this just popped into my head but does think tommens love of cats is foreshadowing that he will be killed by nymeria ( who uses knives) going out the same way as rhaegar and elias daughter who also had a pet cat and was stabbed to death

When I first read this I thought you were talking about arya's wolf. I do not think she will kill him. There has been quite an emphasis on protecting Tommen and having kingsguard around him at all times. I don't think she will get the chance to be honest. He is going to be too well guarded.

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4 hours ago, Shannon L said:

We have no clue what kind of man Aegon is.  

 

We do actually from Tyrions pov. However that is irrelevant, just as Robert Baratheon didn't crush Aegons head, I was not suggesting he does it himself. 

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There is a possible foreshadowing about Tommen's fate during the name-day tourney in aCoK. Joffrey and the Hound do not participate in it (a tounrey of gnats) and comment on it from the sidelines, making all that is foreshadowed in those scenes belong to the post-Joffrey period while the Hound is off-scene as well (believed to be dead), in other words during Tommen's reign.

There are  allusions to batte for power between Cersei and the Tyrells, through the list rides between kingsguard and Redwynes (also Olenna's grandchildren). There are two such lists, one where the Tyrell side wins, and one where Cersei wins.

There is an allusion to Slynt's death as a brother of the Night's Watch. Sure, George may have initially decided that Slynt would be hanged instead of beheaded (the first is the death for commoners, the sword is for noblemen), but with Ned damning him in the black cells and his son in black armor riding the lists against a Swann of the "Red Watch" as well as Sansa wishing the boy dead, George at least decided that Slynt would die at the Wall.

We have a "silver griffin" who's old and loses.

The fool-drunk knight doesn't even manage to get on his red stallion and threatened with execution. Red stallions forewarn liars/betrayers/false friends and death. He in fact dies shortly after Joffrey's death.

And then at the end Tommen himself gets to ride, against a "straw man" (or a puppet). The straw man is given antlers, and thus alludes to a Baratheon. At the time fo the tourney everyone worries more about Renly's army, while they believe Stannis to be no military threat whatsoever. And that is certainly the belief the Lannisters have about Stannis after his defeat at the Blackwater, more so during Tommen's reign, when Stannis has left for the North and abandoned Dragonstone. So, Tommen rides against the antlered straw man, hits him, rides past in victory only to be hit from behind by it and ends up unseated. In other words, during Tommen's reign, a straw man will manage to strike at Tommen's reign unseen and unsuspected, and this would coincide with Tommen losing his "seat" aka his kingship. This could be either Stannis or Aegon, depending on how you interprete the straw man. Tommen surprises the Hound, Sansa and his sister though by not giving up and people "helping him back onto his mount". In other words, while Tommen will lose the crown, I do not expect him to lose his life then and he will still have support to try and reclaim the crown.

Now here's the telling paragraph:

 
Quote

 

The sounds from the gatehouse took them by surprise. Chains rattled as the portcullis was drawn upward, and the great gates opened to the creak of iron hinges. "Who told them to open the gate?" Joff demanded. With the troubles in the city, the gates of the Red Keep had been closed for days.
A column of riders emerged from beneath the portcullis with a clink of steel and a clatter of hooves. [...] The visitors were dinted and haggard and dusty, yet the standard they carried was the lion of Lannister, golden on its crimson field. A few wore the red cloaks and mail of Lannister men-at-arms, but more were freeriders and sellswords, armored in oddments and bristling with sharp steel . . . and there were others, monstrous savages out of one of Old Nan's tales, the scary ones Bran used to love. [...]In their midst, riding on a tall red horse in a strange high saddle that cradled him back and front, was the queen's dwarf brother Tyrion Lannister, the one they called the Imp.

 

 

At the time of the tourney those "savages" were the clan men of the Vale, but with the description that Sansa gives us, it's clear that an army of Essosi sellswords, Dothraki and Unsullied would fit as well in the future, with Tyrion leading them (on a red horse). The gates were closed because of "trouble in the city" (or land), but are opened for a Lannister standard.

Now let's go back RR: Robert was proclaimed king on the battle field already before he even held the city. Even if the Mad King still sat on the IT and wore his crown, he wasn't king anymore as he lost the realm to Robert. Aerys closed the city gates, but opened them for Tywin's armyn beleiving that Tywin Lannister came to his aid, only to learn Tywin betrayed him and sacked King's Landing. We witness a foreshadowing of something similar in the gnat-tourney scene. Someone else will be proclaimed king (Stannis or Aegon) on the battle field, far away from KL, and the city gates remain closed, with Tommen clinging to kingship, at which point help seems to arrive in disguise of Lannister support, with Tyrion (long believed to be dead by now) leading an Essosi army into King's Landing, only to betray Tommen and hand KL over to Dany.

So, I expect Tommen to live through quite a bit still, however holed up in KL or Casterly Rock, and betrayed by his trust in Tyrion.

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On 4/7/2019 at 7:22 AM, Mat92 said:

I don't see how his love of cats foreshadows Nym? If anything, a cat would be closer to symbolising a LION - aka a Lannister.

However if we are following your logic, it would be more likely that it is foreshadowing ARYA. She takes on the nickname of "Cat" of the Canals (after Catelyn), and even rides on a ship to Braavos called "Nymeria." I don't think that she would kill Tommen as he is a young child though.

The ship Arya takes to Braavos is actually called The Titan's Daughter. 

As far as Tommen, I suspect he will be killed by one of the Martells, err, Sands that are on the way to King's Landing.  I'm not sure which one, if it winds up being on purpose, but that's my guess.  

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19 hours ago, Shannon L said:

Ah no.  It's not foreshadowed.  Tommen is not going wolf hunting.  Nymeria is not going to K/L.  The two will never meet.  

Nymeria is going to King's Landing, but not the one you are thinking of. I believe most of us are discussing Oberyn Martell's daughter, Nymeria Sand. :)

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10 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Now let's go back RR: Robert was proclaimed king on the battle field already before he even held the city. Even if the Mad King still sat on the IT and wore his crown, he wasn't king anymore as he lost the realm to Robert. Aerys closed the city gates, but opened them for Tywin's armyn beleiving that Tywin Lannister came to his aid, only to learn Tywin betrayed him and sacked King's Landing. We witness a foreshadowing of something similar in the gnat-tourney scene. Someone else will be proclaimed king (Stannis or Aegon) on the battle field, far away from KL, and the city gates remain closed, with Tommen clinging to kingship, at which point help seems to arrive in disguise of Lannister support, with Tyrion (long believed to be dead by now) leading an Essosi army into King's Landing, only to betray Tommen and hand KL over to Dany.

So, I expect Tommen to live through quite a bit still, however holed up in KL or Casterly Rock, and betrayed by his trust in Tyrion.

   This is a good foreshadowing.

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The Lannisters will kill Nymeria.  She won't get to Tommen because she has her father's temperament.  Cersei won't trust her to go near her son.  

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Tyenne Sand is set up to infiltrate the Faith and from there it is a short step to infiltrate Maegor's holdfast as one of Cersei's attendants.

If Arianne allies herself with Aegon, Tyenne is well poised to remove Tommen and thus the Tyrells' interest in defending the throne. 

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