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Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

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5 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Ah, nice catch. That makes me feel better about it, I normally don’t like it when the timeline ‘magically’ does things for itself as if it has some agency, but I could see the stones being powerful enough to do that. 

I think its wrong to think about it like its agency, instead think of it like inertia - time is already heading in a certain direction and it takes a lot of energy and effort to adjust that course.

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My only gripe is that; ok so Gamora from 2014 got pulled into 2019, so she did not exist from 2014-2019 she just skipped those years, which means she skipped GotG part 1 and 2, which means all the Guardians would be dead and they would never have kept the Power Stone......

This was the major plot hole for the time travelling I could see.

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2 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Who was that teenage male kid at Tony's funeral?

He was a kid that Tony Stark chats to about his PTSD. I had to look it up as well, as that one is very close to the bottom of my personal and obviously subjective list of MCU movies.

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Just now, Argonath Diver said:

He was a kid that Tony Stark chats to about his PTSD. I had to look it up as well, as that one is very close to the bottom of my personal and obviously subjective list of MCU movies.

The kid from Ironman3? the one who helps in his garage?

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6 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

That’s not a bad suggestion. Slightly inelegant in that our Peggy doesn’t get to see Steve till the 21st century and it’s some other Peggy that he ends up with, but it works.

Don’t forget that, despite half the planet being dead, they’ve had 5 years of integration with Wakandan technology. Stark would’ve been all over that. Maybe not to the levels of the rest of the galaxy but it bridges the gap a little. Plus, Stark would’ve got good scans of the gauntlet in IW, maybe he even integrated a ‘stone grabber’ into the suit for his final scene.

Totally forgot to mention this: how about the universe where Thor has to finish up Thor 2 without Mjolnir?! Our Thor just straight up stole it and didn’t return it. Maybe Cap had to defeat the Dark Elves to?

Yes that makes no sense and I thought of it too. Same thing with Gamora.

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5 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Yes that makes no sense and I thought of it too. Same thing with Gamora.

Apparently he has it when he goes back to return the stones, I just didn’t notice.

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13 minutes ago, karaddin said:

I think its wrong to think about it like its agency, instead think of it like inertia - time is already heading in a certain direction and it takes a lot of energy and effort to adjust that course.

But if it is already headed in a direction and then something changes, by what mechanism does it return back? Like, if you went back 10 minutes and moved this pencil on the left side of my desk to the right, where is it when you return? Either it’s on the right, or some final-destination like bullshit happened and it just coincidentally got moved by someone else back to the left or something. 

I prefer to think the stone has some kind of timeline gravitational pull to it, and the whole line is re-absorbed into the ‘prime’. Then you don’t have to think about each individual situation resolving itself somehow, it just merges.

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15 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

My only gripe is that; ok so Gamora from 2014 got pulled into 2019, so she did not exist from 2014-2019 she just skipped those years, which means she skipped GotG part 1 and 2, which means all the Guardians would be dead and they would never have kept the Power Stone......

This was the major plot hole for the time travelling I could see.

Well by my ‘timeline absorbtion’ theory, the universe in which Gamora is missing is reabsorbed when the stone is returned. Gamora carries on through GotG1 and 2, then dies in Infinity War, then an anomalous 2014 Gamora finds herself in 2023. So basically returning infinity stones: necessary for timeline repairing, returning people (Thanos, Gamora): not so much.

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38 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

There’s a potentially interesting time loop/paradox regarding Mjolnir:

Thor takes Mjolnir with him, and Steve then wields it, proving his worthy. But did he somehow become worthy between Age of Ultron and now? What special stuff did he do to become worthy?

Or, was he always worthy, but Mjolnir did not respond to him because it would have affected the timeline?

Steve is the one who returns the stones to their proper time, and it doesn’t appear that Thor participated in any way in that. So it’s conceivable that Steve was the one who returned Mjolnir along with the Aether. So Steve would have wielded Mjonlir in the past, as well, before the AoU party. But Mjolnir itself, a weapon with a powerful spell on it, only budged and resisted Steve’s attempt, because it would have potentially screwed up the timeline.

Alternatively, Steve realised he could pick up Mjolnir, but faked out so as not to embarrass Thor.

I've seen another reading that Steve was almost worthy to pick up Mjolnir but couldn't because he was still keeping a few secrets (like that Tony's parents had been murdered by HYDRA). Once that was out in the open, he was clear to go. 2023 Steve was worthy, 2015 Steve was not (but was almost there).

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Ah, nice catch. That makes me feel better about it, I normally don’t like it when the timeline ‘magically’ does things for itself as if it has some agency, but I could see the stones being powerful enough to do that. There’s also a bonus to this theory: the stones are now part of a closed loop: they’re created, momentarily borrowed by Endgame, then acquired by Thanos, used for the snap, and then they destroy themselves. Even though the technology still exists, the fact that the stones won’t repair timelines rules out time travel for the rest of the MCU. So we avoid all the classic ‘why don’t they just go back and...’ questions.

 

They can still time travel, as they have all the technology and the methodology, or the know-how on how to recreate it. It would just now be exceedingly ill-advised.

 

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My only gripe is that; ok so Gamora from 2014 got pulled into 2019, so she did not exist from 2014-2019 she just skipped those years, which means she skipped GotG part 1 and 2, which means all the Guardians would be dead and they would never have kept the Power Stone......

This was the major plot hole for the time travelling I could see.

 

No, because the 2014 splinter timeline is now an orphaned timeline which, if we're reading this right, got collapsed back into the main timeline by Steve returning the Power Stone to Morag (which meant all six Power Stones were present in the same place and fixed everything). Things created in that timeline still exist, but they have no impact on the present of the primary timeline. That leaves Gamora as something of an anomaly.

The question left unanswered by the movie is if alt-Gamora was dusted along with the rest of Thanos's forces, or if "primary" Gamora can be recovered from the Soul Stone at some point.

 

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Who was that teenage male kid at Tony's funeral?

 

The kid from Iron Man 3.

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how about the universe where Thor has to finish up Thor 2 without Mjolnir

 

Cap took Mjolnir back to the Dark World timeline and left it there for Thor to pick up and then for Hela to destroy later on.

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by what mechanism does it return back

 

The Infinity Stones, as both Hulk and the Ancient One explained in their info dump scene for the audience (complete with CG PowerPoint presentation).

The destruction of the Infinity Stones in the present timeline may therefore be somewhat worrying and have long-term consequences (as indeed they did in the comic).

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Potential plot hole: how did Clint and Natasha find the soul stone? The only two people who knew the exact location were dead, unless Gamora told Nebula details, and not just that it's on Vormir. Planets, they are big.

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34 minutes ago, karaddin said:

Bolded - amen.

There is an explicitly queer character in this movie, they're a minor role but its a guy talking about finally going on a date again after the 5 year gap and it was with another guy. Also confirmed Steve isn't a homophobe despite the time he came from which is nice lol.

Have to confess i’m going to go see MiB just because of the Thompson/Hemsworth pairing ;) Wonderful chemistry together. I’ll just keep my head canon road trip with Thor Captain Marvel and Valkyrie for now. I’ve been building it since you mentioned it :P 

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4 minutes ago, Werthead said:

The question left unanswered by the movie is if alt-Gamora was dusted along with the rest of Thanos's forces, or if "primary" Gamora can be recovered from the Soul Stone at some point.

They’ve left the exact workings of the gauntlet pretty vague, you appear to just ‘think’ what it is you want and if it’s within its power, it happens. I could imagine Tony just thinking ‘dust everyone who means us harm’, which by then would’ve excluded Gamora.

I’d also say that trading a life for the soul stone exempts that life from being returned via the stone, hence why that Gamora is permanently dead and why there was no point trying to get Nat back. You can cheat time, you can’t cheat the stones.

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Potential plot hole: how did Clint and Natasha find the soul stone? The only two people who knew the exact location were dead, unless Gamora told Nebula details, and not just that it's on Vormir. Planets, they are big.

 

I suspect that once they were close to Vormir, they could track the energy readings or the mountain and the lake are the only notable features on the entire planet.

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How was everyone's theater experience?

My place apparently had 12 of 16 theaters for Endgame, one showing every fifteen minutes or so. They've recently remodeled so every screen room has only those gigantic lazy boy chairs, resulting in far fewer people per room. I went to an 8:45 show, and honestly I'm kind of disappointed in the crowd. It was almost completely silent the entire movie. Some polite Ooohs and Aahhhs at the big moments, but never any outright cheering, hardly even any loud laughter at the best bits. Cmon people lighten up! Compare that to my opening day visit to Black Panther, which I think was the absolute most fun I've ever had, crowd-dependent. Certainly regarding seeing that in Manhattan and seeing this at a suburban midwest theater had very different demographics, but still. 

Hell the young woman next to me even glanced over when I muffled a cackle at seeing Fat Thor. Come on girl lighten the F up! Hope y'all got to do some clapping and cheering with a more raucous crowd, instead of the golf fans in mine!

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So Bruce's snap returned all the snapped people, but without changing the timeline, and apparently they returned to where they were, hence Spidey, Strange, and the rest of the Guardians coming in from Titan. Soooo, all the people that were in planes, helicopters... 

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2 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

How was everyone's theater experience?

My place apparently had 12 of 16 theaters for Endgame, one showing every fifteen minutes or so. They've recently remodeled so every screen room has only those gigantic lazy boy chairs, resulting in far fewer people per room. I went to an 8:45 show, and honestly I'm kind of disappointed in the crowd. It was almost completely silent the entire movie. Some polite Ooohs and Aahhhs at the big moments, but never any outright cheering, hardly even any loud laughter at the best bits. Cmon people lighten up! Compare that to my opening day visit to Black Panther, which I think was the absolute most fun I've ever had, crowd-dependent. Certainly regarding seeing that in Manhattan and seeing this at a suburban midwest theater had very different demographics, but still. 

Hell the young woman next to me even glanced over when I muffled a cackle at seeing Fat Thor. Come on girl lighten the F up! Hope y'all got to do some clapping and cheering with a more raucous crowd, instead of the golf fans in mine!

My theater wasn't packed, but still a large crowd. There was a lot of laughter, applauding and cheering. People went crazy when Cap wielded Mjolnir. On the other hand, no one reacted to Carol coming in and blowing up Thanos's ship; it was a bit anticlimactic, like yeah we saw her do that just a couple of months ago. But they did react when she fought Thanos, and she created a shield around herself, not budging when Thanos hit her. Also, as the movie was winding down, I could hear sniffing, then wild applause at the end.

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1 minute ago, Corvinus said:

So Bruce's snap returned all the snapped people, but without changing the timeline, and apparently they returned to where they were, hence Spidey, Strange, and the rest of the Guardians coming in from Titan. Soooo, all the people that were in planes, helicopters... 

Hospitals... Prisons... yea I don't think anyone's going to be able to really explain away the snap. 

Just think of a horrific current event - Notre Dame burning down. Well the world now has an entire civilization facing five years of decay, as evidenced by San Francisco and Queens. Throw in 3 billion displaced people and countless doggos and filthy mosquitos (And trees? Did the trees un-rot?)

I'm just putting my head in the sand and saying "Comic Books! Comic Books! Comic Books! Doesn't matter! Bring on Spidey 3 I don't care!" and moving on to enjoying Phase 4.

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Scary thing is losing half the population only takes us back to the 70s in terms of world population.

The big debate is whether it's all life or all sentient life. The former and the earth would be wrecked as ecosystems would be utterly screwed

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