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Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 18

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17 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

A short of post about Jon Connington possibly having knowledge of Jon Snow.

"No man could have asked for a worthier son," Griff said, "but the lad is not of my blood, and his name is not Griff. My lords, I give you Aegon Targaryen, firstborn son of Rhaegar, Prince of Dragonstone, by Princess Elia of Dorne." (The Lost Lord, ADwD 24)

It's the firstborn son that always nagged me, so I decided to waste some time and go see the mentions of firstborn son. And every character who has been mentioned as being the firstborn son had a younger brother. Marq Piper has a younger brother. Jaime Lannister has a younger brother. Aenys I Targaryen had a younger brother. Jaehaerys, Aegon II's son, had a younger brother. Robert referred to as firstborn son, has two younger brothers. 

Everybody knows that Rhaegar had two children. Rhaenys and Aegon. But to call Aegon Rhaegar's firstborn son when he is supposedly his only son is a really interesting turn of phrase.

Nice. Is there anything else to suggest that Jon Connington knows about Jon Snow's true parentage? Perhaps he knows that Rhaegar and Lyanna had a son, but maybe he doesn't know that the boy lived? 

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The Dothrakis don't consider giving up (or not starting) a siege as lost battle:

 

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"When cowards hide behind great walls, it is they who are defeated, Khaleesi," Ko Jhogo said.
Her other bloodriders concurred. "Blood of my blood," said Rakharo, "when cowards hide and burn the food and fodder, great khals must seek for braver foes. This is known."

 

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3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Nice. Is there anything else to suggest that Jon Connington knows about Jon Snow's true parentage? Perhaps he knows that Rhaegar and Lyanna had a son, but maybe he doesn't know that the boy lived? 

No. Not from what we've been given as far as I can tell, although there's that line about Rhaegar being told that Elia would not bear anymore children after Aegon's birth. 

I really don't think the dots would be that hard to connect for Jon Connington. I think Septa Lemore is key here to confirm that piece of information.

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I never realized how much GRRM hated the name Ambrose. House Ambrose supported the Greens and the Blackfyres, and Ambrose is Butterwell’s first name. Have we discovered the name of George’s schoolyard bully? <_<

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28 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I never realized how much GRRM hated the name Ambrose. House Ambrose supported the Greens and the Blackfyres, and Ambrose is Butterwell’s first name. Have we discovered the name of George’s schoolyard bully? <_<

He wouldn't have given the "Aegon" name to one of the Ambroses if that was the case. But again we have two Aegon Frey so...

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2 hours ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

He wouldn't have given the "Aegon" name to one of the Ambroses if that was the case. But again we have two Aegon Frey so...

Aegon II was a chump too.

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I think the Dance of the Dragons (Rhaenyra vs, Aegon II) is (at least in part) about the conflict between the sky and the sea - Hightower vs. Velaryon.

Land is also part of the conflict - many of the dragons die in the air but many also die while chained to the ground or after their wings are injured and they can no longer fly. A number of dragons fall into water or live on islands. 

Rhaenyra and Aegon II both have brief reigns, marked by difficulty and continuing conflict. The ultimate winner (with a long but unhappy reign) is Aegon III, who doesn't like dragons. 

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53 minutes ago, Seams said:

I think the Dance of the Dragons (Rhaenyra vs, Aegon II) is (at least in part) about the conflict between the sky and the sea - Hightower vs. Velaryon.

Land is also part of the conflict - many of the dragons die in the air but many also die while chained to the ground or after their wings are injured and they can no longer fly. A number of dragons fall into water or live on islands. 

Rhaenyra and Aegon II both have brief reigns, marked by difficulty and continuing conflict. The ultimate winner (with a long but unhappy reign) is Aegon III, who doesn't like dragons. 

Sea vs sky... so like the drowned god vs the storm god or...

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1 hour ago, Targaryeninkingslanding said:

Sea vs sky... so like the drowned god vs the storm god or...

Yes! I think it's not a coincidence that one of the climactic moments of the civil war is called The Storming of the Dragonpit. 

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Note I

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“If you would only spend more time with the other children—”

– Maester Luwin to Bran

 

 

Note II

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[Sansa] could not deny that the godswood had a certain power too. Especially by night. Help me, she prayed, send me a friend, a true knight to champion me . . 

Immediately after Dantos appears as the mummer's knight. However, a couple of pages later

Quote

She was racing headlong down the serpentine steps when a man lurched out of a hidden doorway. Sansa caromed into him and lost her balance. Iron fingers caught her by the wrist before she could fall, and a deep voice rasped at her...The Hound.

Then, in the same page

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“True knights,” he mocked. “And I’m no lord, no more than I’m a knight. Do I need to beat that into you?”

The lady doth protest too much, methinks. 

 

 

Note III

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Lommy Greenhands sat propped up between two thick roots at the foot of an oak.

A child called Greenhands nested between tree roots.

 

 

Note IV

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Another man thrust a flaming torch at her back, but the rainbow cloak was too sodden with blood to burn.

 Much like the weirwood tree.

 

 

 

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Bloody sheet, bloody cloak.

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When she woke, the pale light of morning was slanting through her window, yet she felt as sick and achy as if she had not slept at all. There was something sticky on her thighs. When she threw back the blanket and saw the blood, all she could think was that her dream had somehow come true. She remembered the knives inside her, twisting and ripping. She squirmed away in horror, kicking at the sheets and falling to the floor, breathing raggedly, naked, bloodied, and afraid.

...

Snatching up her knife, Sansa hacked at the sheet, cutting out the stain. If they ask me about the hole, what will I say? Tears ran down her face. She pulled the torn sheet from the bed, and the stained blanket as well. I'll have to burn them. She balled up the evidence, stuffed it in the fireplace, drenched it in oil from her bedside lamp, and lit it afire. Then she realized that the blood had soaked through the sheet into the featherbed, so she bundled that up as well, but it was big and cumbersome, hard to move. Sansa could get only half of it into the fire. She was on her knees, struggling to shove the mattress into the flames as thick grey smoke eddied around her and filled the room, when the door burst open and she heard her maid gasp. (ACoK, Sansa IV)

 

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Some instinct made her lift her hand and cup his cheek with her fingers. The room was too dark for her to see him, but she could feel the stickiness of the blood, and a wetness that was not blood. "Little bird," he said once more, his voice raw and harsh as steel on stone. Then he rose from the bed. Sansa heard cloth ripping, followed by the softer sound of retreating footsteps.

When she crawled out of bed, long moments later, she was alone. She found his cloak on the floor, twisted up tight, the white wool stained by blood and fire. The sky outside was darker by then, with only a few pale green ghosts dancing against the stars. A chill wind was blowing, banging the shutters. Sansa was cold. She shook out the torn cloak and huddled beneath it on the floor, shivering. (ACoK, Sansa VII) 

Gregor put Sandor in the fire; Sansa put her bloody sheet in the fire; Sandor left his bloody white cloak for Sansa after their "bedding" scene. 

Sansa = Gregor? 

Also, in the scene where Jon Snow fights the wighted Othor in the Lord Commander's chamber, he uses burning drapes to defeat the zombie. 

Immediately following Sansa and Sandor's private meeting in Sansa's bedchamber, Dontos (her "true knight") tells her that the overwhelming green wildfire has defeated the enemy, led by Stannis. He credits the victory to Renly.

I think Ser Gregor represents a "god" of green, so Sansa becoming a green goddess and a victory brought about by green wildfire and someone in Renly's green armor would fit this symbolism. 

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Posted (edited)

Parallel/pattern -

The fall/death of the Black Dragon, then his father's death, then the death of his two children and the death of a "potential", then the death of "Rhae", and so on:

Baelor Breakspear (died in 209) - Rhaegar <- the Black Dragon, both of them.

Daeron II - Aerys II <- the Black Dragon's father.

Valarr and Matarys - Aegon (he was killed first) and Rhaenys <- the Black Dragon's two children.

Valarr's stillborn sons - Elia Martell (by "potential" I meant what could have been but didn't happened. If Elia didn't died then, then maybe eventually after several years of recovering she would have been able to give birth to more children. Because maesters, same as the real world's doctors, are not always correct and life always finds some ways to persist. And Elia was a dragonseed thru her great-great-grandmother Daenerys Targaryen, so her future potential children, even if they were not Rhaegar's, still would have been dragonseeds).

? - Lyanna Stark.

? - Oswell Whent.

? - Arthur Dayne.

Rhaegel (died in 215) - Queen Rhaella.

Etc.

There is a parallel between those deaths of Targaryens that occured after 209 and those that occured in the span of Robert's Rebelion and after it, all the way to the latest events in the books and further (what is still not written).

Rickard Stark, Brandon, (possibly also Arthur Dayne and Oswell Whent), Lyanna, Drogo, Ned, Catelyn, Robb, Lysa Arryn - all of them were bloodrelated to Targaryens, they all were partial dragonseeds. So there is a parallel death in the distant past to each of their deaths and to the deaths of those characters of ASOIAF, who are bloodrelated to Targaryens (such as Starks, and Edmure Tully, and Petyr Baelish, Varys, Barristan Selmy, fAegon, Melisandre, Stannis, Shireen, Gendry, Robert's other bastards, Olenna Tyrell (she and her descendants are also partially dragonseeds, because it seems that Olenna's mother was Calla Blackfyre), so in this group are also Loras and Margaery Tyrells, and Mace Tyrell and his other children).

We'll see by the end of the series whether the deaths of those characters in the last two books will be following the same pattern as the deaths of those historical Targaryens about whose deaths GRRM has already wrote.

Edited by Megorova

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Posted (edited)
On 5/28/2019 at 10:20 AM, Corvo the Crow said:

It seemed logical that he could have a son named Theon. (But I've never seen other hints that would support that speculation.)

I would think that if you take the greek meaning of the name theon you might learn a bit more.  There are 2 interpretations I've seen, 1 is that it is derived from the name Theron, which means hunter. the second is that the name means "godly." If you combine them, godly hunter could apply to both.  This definition fits both men.

Focusing further, If you consider the Baratheons to be a continuation of the Durrandon line, the Baratheon name is would fit that line well ... "son of godly hunter," which fits, assuming durran was a hunter, because Elenei was certainly a god.

Art by Roman Papsuev, from the wiki. https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Durran_and_Elenei.jpeg

Edited by The Green Bard

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