Conflicting Thought Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Just now, Maithanet said: Uh? He misspoke? You're attributing this to be what he actually, secretly means, rather than just the kind of slip of the tongue that we all make. Considering that he clumsily tried to correct it more or less immediately, I'm quite prepared to just move on. There are plenty of things not to like about Biden, but this is a tempest in a teacup. What, no, im not attributing nothing, he said that, he literally said that. If someone from the republican party said that shit, tjere would be no excuse for that "slip". I wonder, why are you so prepared to move on, and forget what he said. Maybe you are white?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Everytime I hear 'woke' being used as a critique of a position it just sounds one of those MRA fedora chumps whining about 'SJWs'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Conflicting Thought said: What, no, im not attributing nothing, he said that, he literally said that. If someone from the republican party said that shit, tjere would be no excuse for that "slip". Have you ever misspoken? Said something you didn't mean? Because Biden corrected himself prettymuch immediately. The very next words out of his mouth were "wealthy kids". If you want, I'm sure you can find of similar misstatements from virtually any politician that's been in the public eye for any amount of time. But maybe you're right, maybe any politician who has ever made a misstatement should be cast aside as imperfect. The Democratic party will be left with zero members, but at least we'll be pure. Quote I wonder, why are you so prepared to move on, and forget what he said. Maybe you are white?. Oh good, I was worried my race wouldn't come into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted August 9, 2019 Author Share Posted August 9, 2019 14 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said: Hmmm where else have i seen this "argument" being made, who are the people that say shit like this, can someone help me remember? Uh, your post makes it look like Kalbear said that. He didn't say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conflicting Thought Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Martell Spy said: Uh, your post makes it look like Kalbear said that. He didn't say that. No, i was quoting tywin et al, and i meant that a lot of right wing people use that same argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: It almost like the thread has completely forgotten that it was Biden who forced Obama’s hand on the issue of same sex marriages. I don't agree with the outrage at Biden's comments - although I would say they further demonstrate why we should find someone else to be president. But claiming Biden "forced Obama's hand" on SSM is absolute horseshit. Biden came out for it before Obama did, sure, but that was likely to test the waters - as vice presidents are supposed to do. Privately, there's little doubt in my mind that Obama was more for SSM before either came out publicly than Biden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conflicting Thought Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, Maithanet said: Oh good, I was worried my race wouldn't come into this. How do you think PoC interprets and feels about, when they hear shit like that, do you think that maybe they have reasons to think that, when a presidential candidate equates poor and not "bright" with black people, that maybe he is racist and does not have their best interest in his mind? Do you think they belive that it was just a misstep? And should they have goodfaith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said: How do you think PoC interprets and feels about, when they hear shit like that, do you think that maybe they have reasons to think that, when a presidential candidate equates poor and not "bright" with black people, that maybe he is racist and does not have their best interest in his mind? Do you think they belive that it was just a misstep? And should they have goodfaith? What, you can't give him the benefit of the doubt after the crime bill? This won't be the last stupid shit Biden says, regardless of the intent. And it certainly won't be the worst. With a career that long there are probabaly some skeletons in there (although apparently you can brag about raping people, pal around with child rapists, say really racist shit in public for thirty or forty years, incite violence against Muslims and the latinx community, and still be president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, DMC said: I don't agree with the outrage at Biden's comments - although I would say they further demonstrate why we should find someone else to be president. But claiming Biden "forced Obama's hand" on SSM is absolute horseshit. Biden came out for it before Obama did, sure, but that was likely to test the waters - as vice presidents are supposed to do. Privately, there's little doubt in my mind that Obama was more for SSM before either came out publicly than Biden. I feel like we would know this for sure one way or another by now. Hasn't this come out in one of the WH memoirs that people have written? 2 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said: How do you think PoC interprets and feels about, when they hear shit like that, do you think that maybe they have reasons to think that, when a presidential candidate equates poor and not "bright" with black people, that maybe he is racist and does not have their best interest in his mind? Do you think they belive that it was just a misstep? And should they have goodfaith? I think that there is ample evidence that Biden's record on race is thoroughly mixed, including some real blemishes like the Hill hearings and the 90s crime bill. If you want to argue that Biden is a poor candidate for the Democrats on those grounds, by all means. It is certainly (part of) why Biden will not be getting my support in the primary. But if you need to pounce on some misstatement Biden made and immediately corrected to make your point, it makes your argument sound very weak indeed. Which is why I dismissed it as a tempest in a teacup. We all make misstatements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, Maithanet said: I feel like we would know this for sure one way or another by now. Hasn't this come out in one of the WH memoirs that people have written? I dunno I have neither the time nor inclination to read memoirs. It was my take on it at the time - it wasn't like his normal "gaffe-iness" - and everyone I talked to who would know more about it agreed. I'm not entirely sure, of course, but like I said I think that's likely what happened, even very likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mother of The Others Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Once again I'm accused of the failings you're currently suffering from. It's a real pattern, the left labeling the opponent with your own problems and then shouting loudest to make it stick. Pin the tail on the elephant. When the actual name of the game is pin the tail on the donkey. For good reason. It's you who have put critical thinking aside. Kids, a generation or two back, used to have access to guns all the time, just about every kid knew where a gun was and could have grabbed it and shot people with it on any occasion, but these kinds of carnage shootings didn't happen. The culture hadn't changed to that point yet. We were like these other places. There were still too many things holding a person back from conceiving and executing such an act. More fostering of a sense of human decency. A feeling of community that has since eroded into isolation and anonymity and a constantly stoked devisiveness. A fear of God. (Not saying it as a lightning rod, just stating the historical reality. I don't seek a return to heavy religion based morality, but should we be blind to the comparative holes in modern ethical training? Kids have less keeping them from turning killer now. In fact the thug culture kind of, you know, pushes it.) Stronger father figures to keep people from going totally off the rails. It's a thing. It's true in the animal kingdom, recently observed with elephants whose youths only started goring rhinos- - something elephants don't do- - after they were removed from contact with adult males for human convenience reasons. It's true of the human. To not be taking it seriously is a failure of critical.... common sense. Another casualty of the modern era. So, with our unique cultural ills, if you then combine that with lifelong repetitions of headshots counting for more points.... if order and sanity are seen blowing up in the latest movie every week.... then our population is set up to respond in our own special way to this stimulus. The mass shootings. There you go. That's what it has to be. Because we are what we are, so looking at what we are becomes..... pertinent. And you do pay for the new porn. Streaming services. Cable or satellite tv packages. Theater tickets. Maybe torrents are free, are you saying everybody uses exclusively those? The point is we're choosing it real hard. We're willing participants in glamorizing the blueprints for our demise. And it is odd. And it is a cultural blind spot--our culpability in how things got to this point. A culture turned suicidal. We don't want to see the killers as our mirror. we look away from that. Hence, blind spot. If you're looking for an example of just saying whatever, AOC one week: "the government is setting up concentration camps!" AOC the next week: "there's no reason anyone would ever need these rifles." She obviously didn't believe or remember her first blurb, because the combo of the two is just wow. You can really feel the sincerity coming through. The rush to make the government bigger and unopposable by disarming people can't end well. Grant the gov more and more control and eventually you will be controlled. And it's not pretty when you get that wish. Hong Kong as the real time example unfolding before your eyes. But that's another offbase example because we're lightyears away from a China situation. Why is that, though? An armed citizenry is one leading reason, it keeps the gov sufficiently afraid of trying shit like that Hong Kong clampdown. The government should fear the people more, not less. It's all that reminds them of how they exist to serve us. Supposedly. Because that's become a laughable notion. The Biden barbs was just me joining in the gleefulness everyone exhibits here. No harm intended. Funny is funny. Joe is Joe. Joe is funny. The gaffs and laughs may well be correlation without causation, but the laughs and the gaffs do tend to happen in close proximity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Mother of The Others said: Kids, a generation or two back, used to have access to guns all the time, just about every kid knew where a gun was and could have grabbed it and shot people with it on any occasion, but these kinds of carnage shootings didn't happen. Uh, no they didn't. And the especially didn't have access to high capacity magazines and body armor. What is this bullshit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnot OG Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: It almost like the thread has completely forgotten that it was Biden who forced Obama’s hand on the issue of same sex marriages. Is Biden perfect? No, far from it. But is he a racist? Obviously not. He absolutely is a racist. Or should we forget his supporting segregationists lawmakers by talking about how civil he could be with them? Like that’s a good thing lol. He’s a racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 3 hours ago, sologdin said: quillette employs actual journalists with clear understanding of ethics and and due diligence their use of the sokal affair is uncommonly silly. one has to read the original article in social text, and then his retraction in lingua franca, and then his explanation thereafter in dissent, inter alia. it is not a critique of any 'discipline,' but rather of certain theoretical doctrines (more particularly a journal that disseminates them), with which the author of the parody at issue is not necessarily conversant. it is a fortiori no critique of the leftwing or the DSA. you mean sokal’s original parody, lehman’s reading of it, or the ‘archie carter’ piece published by quillette the other day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 21 minutes ago, DMC said: Uh, no they didn't. And the especially didn't have access to high capacity magazines and body armor. What is this bullshit? It’s bullshit. I don’t even read his posts at this point. My eyes just sort of go out of focus and then I move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueMetis Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 32 minutes ago, The Mother of The Others said: Once again I'm accused of the failings you're currently suffering from. It's a real pattern, the left labeling the opponent with your own problems and then shouting loudest to make it stick. Pin the tail on the elephant. When the actual name of the game is pin the tail on the donkey. For good reason. It's you who have put critical thinking aside. Holy fuck, now they're projecting about projecting. It's projectception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, TrueMetis said: Holy fuck, now they're projecting about projecting. It's projectception. The bottom level of projectception is just watching Mad Men's "The Wheel" on an endless loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Kalbear said: Yes, I absolutely 100% do, and I'm shocked that you can even ask that question legitimately. Of course Obama would pick a person who might be racist if it could help him win and help him with his vision. Obama isn't going to use some kind of purity test there. Now, would Obama pick someone who is blatantly, loudly, politically super racist like Trump? No, I don't think he would. But would Obama pick someone who genuinely believes that black people are synonymous with poor people? Certainly, because that's most people. Especially older, whiter ones in politics. That's just the norm. If Obama didn't do that, he wouldn't be able to pick anyone over 40. That’s an extremely cynical, and somewhat demeaning, take on Obama, his morals and his decision making process. I for one think it’s highly unlikely that he would have sought out Biden as first a mentor and then his partner on the campaign trail if he thought he was a racist. Everyone can have misguided stereotypes, but that’s not the same as being a racist, at least not in this case. And the paragraph I deleted was just plain nonsense. Quote Ah, so unless you're lynching people you're not racist. Got it. As is this. I have written at length here and elsewhere about how racism has a lot of grey areas. It’s not black and white. Treating it that way is what you guys are doing. Quote Yeah, pretty soon if you call people racist enough they'll join the other side and be even MORE racist, just to show us That’s the point. There are smart ways to help people evolve and there are dumb ways that will only further entrench their bigoted views. 1 hour ago, Conflicting Thought said: Dude, how can you say that with that much certainty, when he just fucking said that "poor" kids are just as bright as withe kids, like if this is not an example of some racist as fuck shit, then i know how trump got elected. like, the grab them by the pussy comment, its clear he didnt mean it like that, obviously trump is not a sexist and racists piece of shit/s. When people tell you who they are, you should belive them. Likewise, how can you have so much certainty that he’s a racist when he immediately tried to clean it up. Let me give you a real example of how these stereotypes work. One course I took in college was Cultural Psychology. We did an exercise early on in the course in which the entire class was told to close their eyes and picture what a person using food stamps looks like. The class was very diverse, and yet every student had the same answer: a woman of color. These types of stereotypes are wide spread and exist in all ethnic groups. Also, for what it’s worth, the correct answer is white women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawkcabi Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Can't help posting this guy, his perspectives are just so sharp, I hate the reasons why he's had to say this but I love the way he said what needed to be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin et al. Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 1 hour ago, DMC said: I don't agree with the outrage at Biden's comments - although I would say they further demonstrate why we should find someone else to be president. But claiming Biden "forced Obama's hand" on SSM is absolute horseshit. Biden came out for it before Obama did, sure, but that was likely to test the waters - as vice presidents are supposed to do. Privately, there's little doubt in my mind that Obama was more for SSM before either came out publicly than Biden. Perhaps he was testing the waters, but it’s also quite possible that Biden did what he does best, blurt s*** out. Regardless though, once Biden came out in favor of SSM, Obama got hounded to do the same, and iirc, he did so pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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