JGP Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 2 hours ago, The Twink in the North said: Well that sure came out of nowhere. I don't know whose hurt you my friend, but it wasn't me. I'm just responding to the tone of damn near every single time you've quoted me in this thread. Also JEORDHl implied few pages ago you've been shit-talking Bakker for years. The fuck is this person talki... [marches back a few pages] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Ah, I see [chuckle] A last ejaculate into the lonesome dark, eh Twink? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 But I mean... is he wrong?!!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Rhom said: But I mean... is he wrong?!!? I don't know... [shrugs] ...seems like a colossal waste of time to hate-read a series, but since time is bullshit we all probably value it differently. Like, I just quit reading it. YMMV, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, JEORDHl said: I don't know... [shrugs] ...seems like a colossal waste of time to hate-read a series, but since time is bullshit we all probably value it differently. I thought time was a big ball of...stuff. Stuff that's...you know...wibbly wobbly. And uh, timey wimey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Twink in the North Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Let's all just be nice. I like nice people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 55 minutes ago, JEORDHl said: I don't know... [shrugs] ...seems like a colossal waste of time to hate-read a series, but since time is bullshit we all probably value it differently. Like, I just quit reading it. YMMV, I meant Twink in his rant... he's quite passionate... a bit crude... but I don't think he's wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Ah. I don't know... But I've always had a hard time separating art from artist. I'm weird like that, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 15 hours ago, Rhom said: I meant Twink in his rant... he's quite passionate... a bit crude... but I don't think he's wrong. I think he's pretty wrong. I used to not be a big Tolkien fan and didn't think it was that great, especially compared to some of my other faves - and then I read it out loud to my kids. Turns out when I read, I don't read it in my head - I process the information, but not the poetry. And reading it out loud was absolutely game changing. Tolkien's prose is really excellent and has a lyrical flow that few can match as well as an emotional resonance. Bakker...does not. Sometimes he has good turns of phrase, but his dialogue is wooden most of the time, his characterization tends to be poor and repetitive, and he gets really involved in using lots of words without really describing what is going on. His prose is often opaque and muddled, with basic details like where people are and who did what in simple confusion. I enjoy the series, and despite what people have attributed to me I've never said I didn't. But I enjoy it in spite of a lot of very obvious flaws, and I enjoy it in great despite of the author. Enjoying something should not make you blind to its faults. It is okay - good even - to like and love things that have flaws. I can like Tolkien in spite of some of his more problematic things, though I don't need to overblow them to make them valid criticisms. I can also like TSA despite it having a whole lot of stupid shit, because the worldbuilding is cool as hell and some of the ideas are really neat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Figured as much. Part of me wishes I was more like this myself. Fair or not, now that I've arrived at what I guess would best described as a judgment of Bakker, I don't think I could reread the first trilogy [which at the time I loved] without it casting a different light on it. Maybe I should just try it and see if I'm getting myself right, but then, if I am right, I wonder if I could even tell if it's accurate [on reread] or the resultant change in bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 26 minutes ago, Kalbear said: I think he's pretty wrong. I used to not be a big Tolkien fan and didn't think it was that great, especially compared to some of my other faves - and then I read it out loud to my kids. Turns out when I read, I don't read it in my head - I process the information, but not the poetry. And reading it out loud was absolutely game changing. Tolkien's prose is really excellent and has a lyrical flow that few can match as well as an emotional resonance. Bakker...does not. Sometimes he has good turns of phrase, but his dialogue is wooden most of the time, his characterization tends to be poor and repetitive, and he gets really involved in using lots of words without really describing what is going on. His prose is often opaque and muddled, with basic details like where people are and who did what in simple confusion. I enjoy the series, and despite what people have attributed to me I've never said I didn't. But I enjoy it in spite of a lot of very obvious flaws, and I enjoy it in great despite of the author. Enjoying something should not make you blind to its faults. It is okay - good even - to like and love things that have flaws. I can like Tolkien in spite of some of his more problematic things, though I don't need to overblow them to make them valid criticisms. I can also like TSA despite it having a whole lot of stupid shit, because the worldbuilding is cool as hell and some of the ideas are really neat. Out of curiosity, did you read Bakker to your kids? :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Shockingly, I have not! Though it would be interesting from an experimental perspective to see if I have a new view of his prose if I read it out loud as well. I suspect his stuff in Ish would work well. I suspect most of the early stuff would be really, really dull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Kalbear said: Shockingly, I have not! Though it would be interesting from an experimental perspective to see if I have a new view of his prose if I read it out loud as well. I suspect his stuff in Ish would work well. I suspect most of the early stuff would be really, really dull. The sweet sweet lullaby of Cleric's sermons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 6 hours ago, Kalbear said: Shockingly, I have not! Though it would be interesting from an experimental perspective to see if I have a new view of his prose if I read it out loud as well. I suspect his stuff in Ish would work well. I suspect most of the early stuff would be really, really dull. I feel like yeah, the Ishterebinth section would be rad as hell, and probably most of TJE with the skin eaters and the non-Momen parts of WLW. In the first trilogy the prologue, the carathay, Caraskand, and Kyudea would probably be decent, but with a lot of down time. Probably a few other scattered high spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 The thing with Bakker is he is unequivocally better than most fantasy authors out there. His best moments are as good as any fantasy I've ever read. But overall TSA (the final three books in particular) are more an example of wasted potential and missed opportunities than a truly effective story. With a strong editor or perhaps even a more conventional coauthor to reign in some of the excesses, this series could have been an all-time great. Instead, while there's still some shining moments, the turgid prose and baffling character/plot choices drag the series down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaldanya Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 Jesus and all the little cherubs in heaven! This is still going? Well done, petals (I think) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 39 minutes ago, Chaldanya said: Jesus and all the little cherubs in heaven! This is still going? Well done, petals (I think) The Goodkind threads seem to have died a death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All Cats Are Bad Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 The last three books weren't my favorites either, but I also think each was better than the one that preceded it. TUC in particular I feel ended very strongly and has me pretty pumped for the next series. I hear some people saying he might not get a contract. I don't work in publishing, but I find the idea that an author could get 7 hardcover releases plus audiobooks and not be picked up for the long-planned completion of the series kind of silly. On 8/3/2020 at 1:50 PM, Derfel Cadarn said: Out of curiosity, did you read Bakker to your kids? :p Every teenager with high-strung Christian parents should read Bakker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Twink in the North Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Idk if these have been shared here lol (not mine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 Those were actually pretty funny. Thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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