Which one of Tywin´s children you respect the most ?

[Putin]

Which one and reasons why ?

[frenin]

Tyrion, he is clearly the cleverest and enduring the abuse and the perspective of the being wrongfully killed or sent to the Wall and still remained loyal to his family is heartwarming.

 

[Arthur Peres]

Easily Tyrion, at the very least he is competent at what he do, he is clever and witty.

Cersei is bad mother, wife, and daughter,

Jaime is man child in a world where children are forced to act like adults.

[Adam Yozza]

Probably Tyrion, because he's the smartest and despite how it ended, he was incredibly loyal to his family even after all the abuse he's gone through.

That said Jaime gets a lot of my respect too and it's close because in a wierd way he's probably the most morally decent out of them, and I respect how he damned himself in order to save KL.

Cersei is just the worst and deserves nothing but contempt.

[kissdbyfire]

Too easy: Jaime.

[Nagini's Neville]

His bastard-born Tyllio

[kissdbyfire]

And to elaborate a bit, there are several reasons, but here’s a really, really good one.

AFfC, Jaime IV

“One of the Mountain’s men had tried to rape the girl at Harrenhal, and had seemed honestly perplexed when Jaime commanded Ilyn Payne to take his head off. “I had her before, a hunnerd times,” he kept saying as they forced him to his knees. “A hunnerd times, m’lord. We all had her.” When Ser Ilyn presented Pia with his head, she had smiled through her ruined teeth.”

ADwD, Tyrion VI

“There was only one such in the house, and she was not Tysha. She had freckled cheeks and tight red curls upon her head, which gave promise of freckled breasts and red hair between her legs. “She’ll do,” said Tyrion, “and I’ll have a flagon too. Red wine with red flesh.” The whore was looking at his noseless face with revulsion in her eyes. “Do I offend you, sweetling? I am an offensive creature, as my father would be glad to tell you if he were not dead and rotting.”
Though she did look Westerosi, the girl spoke not a word of the Common Tongue. Perhaps she was captured by some slaver as a child. Her bedchamber was small, but there was a Myrish carpet on the floor and a mattress stuffed with feathers in place of straw. I have seen worse. “Will you give me your name?” he asked, as he took a cup of wine from her. “No?” The wine was strong and sour and required no translation. “I suppose I shall settle for your cunt.” He wiped his mouth with the back of his hand. “Have you ever bedded a monster before? Now’s as good a time as any. Out of your clothes and onto your back, if it please you. Or not.”
She looked at him uncomprehending, until he took the flagon from her hands and lifted her skirts up over her head. After that she understood what was required of her, though she did not prove the liveliest of partners. Tyrion had been so long without a woman that he spent himself inside her on the third thrust.
He rolled off feeling more ashamed than sated. This was a mistake. What a wretched creature I’ve become. “Do you know a woman by the name of Tysha?” he asked, as he watched his seed dribble out of her onto the bed. The whore did not respond. “Do you know where whores go?” She did not answer that one either. Her back was crisscrossed by ridges of scar tissue. This girl is as good as dead. I have just fucked a corpse. Even her eyes looked dead. She does not even have the strength to loathe me.
He needed wine. A lot of wine. He seized the flagon with both hands and raised it to his lips. The wine ran red. Down his throat, down his chin. It dripped from his beard and soaked the feather bed. In the candlelight it looked as dark as the wine that had poisoned Joffrey. When he was done he tossed the empty flagon aside and half-rolled and half-staggered to the floor, groping for a chamber pot. There was none to be found. His stomach heaved, and he found himself on his knees, retching on the carpet, that wonderful thick Myrish carpet, as comforting as lies.
The whore cried out in distress. They will blame her for this, he realized, ashamed.”

 

[Dreadscythe95]

Tyrion.

Jaimie is one of my favorite characters as well but honestly Tyrion never needed a redemption arc.

Cersei is a no comment, xd.

[kissdbyfire]

12 minutes ago, Dreadscythe95 said:

Tyrion.

Jaimie is one of my favorite characters as well but honestly Tyrion never needed a redemption arc.

Cersei is a no comment, xd.

Sorry, what? We must be reading different books. 

 

[Nagini's Neville]

2 hours ago, frenin said:

Tyrion, he is clearly the cleverest and enduring the abuse and the perspective of the being wrongfully killed or sent to the Wall and still remained loyal to his family is heartwarming.

As far as I remember there is not much left of his loyalty to his family after being wrongfully accused lol

"Yes, and Jaime must have the spike beside her, he decided. No one must ever come between my brother and my sister."

 

[Nagini's Neville]

I like Cersei the best as a character

But I guess I respect Jaime the most, not such a bad dude after all IMO. He killed Ned's men, that wasn't great of him, but he helps and protects Brienne, he does something against rape and is against abuse and torture, if anyone doesn't need a redemption arc it's him not Tyrion. 

[frenin]

1 hour ago, Nagini's Neville said:

As far as I remember there is not much left of his loyalty to his family after being wrongfully accused lol

"Yes, and Jaime must have the spike beside her, he decided. No one must ever come between my brother and my sister."

 

Ofc  there is, He could've repeated the incest tale, he could've told a lot of secrets he knows about his family but he shut his mouth, he only rejects them, as in he targets them, after Tysha bomb.

 

Quote

But I guess I respect Jaime the most, not such a bad dude after all IMO. He killed Ned's men, that wasn't great of him, but he helps and protects Brienne, he does something against rape and is against abuse and torture, if anyone doesn't need a redemption arc it's him not Tyrion. 

He threw a 7 year old out of a window to save his neck, he was more than ready to kill Arya and Edmure's baby. I agree that overall he's the best of the trio but...

Tyrion does not need a redemption arc since he is perfctly comfortable as he is, he doesn't want to change and the reason Tyrion is as messed up as he is right now is because his dear brother contributed with his torture.

He's the best character to me tho but nothing else.

[Nagini's Neville]

1 hour ago, frenin said:

Tyrion does not need a redemption arc since he is perfctly comfortable as he is

Yeah and if it stays that way he also won't get one, if you don't acknowledge your faults and wrong-doings, there is no way to want to better yourself. Don't think personally, that's a reason to respect him however

1 hour ago, frenin said:

Tyrion is as messed up as he is right now is because his dear brother contributed with his torture.

A lot of people are messed up and still don't have it in them to rape a slave.

1 hour ago, frenin said:

He's the best character to me tho but nothing else.

I like Tyrion as a character, but I don't respect him more than Jaime. Biggest difference between the two of them is, that Jaime has never hurt someone else for no reason whatsoever, while Tyrion has killed someone, who didn't deserve to die, without her death having any positive effects on his life, he humiliated and threatened to strangle Illyrio's girl just to see fear on her face, he raped the sunset girl, also don't think he treated Sansa right on their WN given her age and knowledge that it was a forced marriage and he stepped on Marillion's fingers and broke them just because he mocked him, which Tyrion does all the time. Given that he doesn't know, that this guy is horrible and also is a musician, who needs his hands to make money, I just think that's really fucked up. Tyrion is also a major hypocrite (saying he has a heart for cripples bastards and broken things, but than killing and raping a sex worker), while Jaime at least knows who he is and is honest about it. He has also become steadily a better person since AGOT, while Tyrion has become a much worse person. Tyrion also threatened to rape Tommen, that's kinda similar to Jaime threatening Edmure's baby- I don't think there is reason to believe either would have gone through with it.

I like Tyrion, but I can't say, that I respect him anymore after he raped the sunset girl. I understand, that he hates his family and that he is suffering, but if you take your pain out on other innocent, weak, completely powerless people and make them suffer as well, without you needing to do that at all to protect yourself or someone you love, that says a lot about your character IMO

Not saying Jaime is a good guy, just that it's easy for me to respect him more, than Tyrion.

[The Wolves]

Tyrion because he killed Tywin. 

[Arthur Peres]

3 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

I like Cersei the best as a character

 

Could you elaborate on this? From my perspective she is the least interest character... she is the most dark POV we have, she does not have a single quality of character, she is incapable ruler, toxic mother and lover, selfish, paranoid, ruthless and a awful person over all without a single redeeming quality.

3 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

But I guess I respect Jaime the most, not such a bad dude after all IMO. He killed Ned's men, that wasn't great of him, but he helps and protects Brienne, he does something against rape and is against abuse and torture, if anyone doesn't need a redemption arc it's him not Tyrion. 

He is so bad that even Cersei had to call out his BS excuses for pushing Bran out of the tower, he keeps blaming others for the decisions he made. He is not changing as his targets kept being children such as Edmure's baby.

[Nagini's Neville]

1 hour ago, Arthur Peres said:

Could you elaborate on this? From my perspective she is the least interest character... she is the most dark POV we have, she does not have a single quality of character, she is incapable ruler, toxic mother and lover, selfish, paranoid, ruthless and a awful person over all without a single redeeming quality.

Yeah maybe I like her because of that. I don't like her as a person. But IMO she is an extremely well written, absolutely fascinating character, just like Tyrion as well actually and he also is among my favorites. I just think they are literary masterpieces and extremely multilayered. On top of that I just always appreciate how GRRM writes women, he does that exceptionally well IMO. And I appreciate how many different complex kind of women exist in universe. He doesn't just make Cersei the evil witch/sepmother (even though she belongs to that archetype) he gives her reasons, personality traits and IMO even personality disorders to make us understand, who she is and why she acts the way she does. I understand her and her logic and she feels real to me. And I think it's an amazing achievement of GRRM, that you (or maybe just I) am able to empathize with her and feel like I understand her at times since she really is the evil queen. Btw I feel for Tyrion a lot as well.

1 hour ago, Arthur Peres said:

He is so bad that even Cersei had to call out his BS excuses for pushing Bran out of the tower, he keeps blaming others for the decisions he made. He is not changing as his targets kept being children such as Edmure's baby.

Jaime isn't one of my favorite characters. The question was, which Lannister do I respect the most and that is clearly Jaime. Since if it's Tyrion vs Jaime (Cersei is out of the run) Jaime clearly wins for me for reasons stated above. And if we are taking about targeting children Tyrion threatened to rape Tommen, just because he couldn't go without sex and wanted the girlfriend experience and he also molested Sansa and wanted to rape her (yeah, I know not in universe, even though the Starks might see it differently, since Joffrey is a bastard, therefore Sansa was not his ward)

[Arthur Peres]

22 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Yeah maybe I like her because of that. I don't like her as a person. But IMO she is an extremely well written, absolutely fascinating character, just like Tyrion as well actually and he also is among my favorites. I just think they are literary masterpieces and extremely multilayered. On top of that I just always appreciate how GRRM writes women, he does that exceptionally well IMO. And I appreciate how many different complex kind of women exist in universe. He doesn't just make Cersei the evil witch/sepmother (even though she belongs to that archetype) he gives her reasons, personality traits and IMO even personality disorders to make us understand, who she is and why she acts the way she does. I understand her and her logic and she feels real to me. And I think it's an amazing achievement of GRRM, that you (or maybe just I) am able to empathize with her and feel like I understand her at times since she really is the evil queen. Btw I feel for Tyrion a lot as well.

 

Fair enough, I just saw her as so negative that almost like a mustache twirling villain and was interest in what made her interesting in your eyes. Thanks for the answer.

23 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Jaime isn't one of my favorite characters. The question was, which Lannister do I respect the most and that is clearly Jaime. Since if it's Tyrion vs Jaime (Cersei is out of the run) Jaime clearly wins for me for reasons stated above. And if we are taking about targeting children Tyrion threatened to rape Tommen, just because he couldn't go without sex and wanted the girlfriend experience and he also molested Sansa and wanted to rape her (yeah, I know not in universe, even though the Starks might see it differently, since Joffrey is a bastard, therefore Sansa was not his ward)

Tommen was cleary a bluff, not really fair using a obvius lie against Tyrion

“I promised my sister I would treat Tommen as she treated Alayaya,” he remembered aloud. He felt as though he might retch. “How can I scourge an eight-year-old boy?”But if I don’t, Cersei wins .

“You don’t have Tommen,” Bronn said bluntly. “Once she learned that Ironhand was dead, the queen sent the Kettleblacks after him, and no one at Rosby had the balls to say them nay.”

Another blow; yet a relief as well, he must admit it. He was fond of Tommen

Jaime on the other hand has history of abusing children from Bran, to Arya, to Edmure's baby, he didn't care about the death of Joffrey, and has barely interacted with Myrcella or Tommen.

Tyrion's actions go against this behaviour, he helped Bran to ride a horse even though he barely knew the boy, he feels pity for a monster like Joffrey when he is dying, he is fond of Myrcella and Tommen, he is abusive towards Sansa i'll grant you that, but nothing close compared to what others did to her in KL or Jaime's past actions.

[Ivan Tsarevich]

Jaime.

ASoS, Jaime I...

Jaime told him, for all the good it did. "Catelyn Stark does not rule in Riverrun," Ser Robin shouted back. Four archers crowded into position on either side of him, two standing and two kneeling. "Cast your swords into the water."

"I have no sword," he returned, "but if I did, I'd stick it through your belly and hack the balls off those four cravens."

A flight of arrows answered him. One thudded into the mast, two pierced the sail, and the fourth missed Jaime by a foot.

Jaime III...

A slick stone turned under Jaime's foot. As he felt himself falling, he twisted the mischance into a diving lunge. His point scraped past her parry and bit into her upper thigh. A red flower blossomed, and Jaime had an instant to savor the sight of her blood before his knee slammed into a rock. The pain was blinding. Brienne splashed into him and kicked away his sword. "YIELD!"

Jaime drove his shoulder into her legs, bringing her down on top of him. They rolled, kicking and punching until finally she was sitting astride him. He managed to jerk her dagger from its sheath, but before he could plunge it into her belly she caught his wrist and slammed his hands back on a rock so hard he thought she'd wrenched an arm from its socket. Her other hand spread across his face. "Yield!" She shoved his head down, held it under, pulled it up. "Yield!" Jaime spit water into her face. A shove, a splash, and he was under again, kicking uselessly, fighting to breathe. Up again. "Yield, or I'll drown you!"

"And break your oath?" he snarled. "Like me?"

She let him go, and he went down with a splash.

Jaime IV...

Jaime chuckled. "There's a funny fool. I have a riddle for you, Shagwell. Why do you care if she screams? Oh, wait, I know." He shouted, "SAPPHIRES," as loudly as he could.

Cursing, Rorge kicked at his stump again. Jaime howled. I never knew there was such agony in the world, was the last thing he remembered thinking. It was hard to say how long he was gone, but when the pain spit him out, Urswyck was there, and Vargo Hoat himself. "Thee'th not to be touched," the goat screamed, spraying spittle all over Zollo. "Thee hath to be a maid, you foolth! Thee'th worth a bag of thapphireth!" And from then on, every night Hoat put guards on them, to protect them from his own.

Jaime VI...

"I'll pay her bloody ransom. Gold, sapphires, whatever you want. Pull her out of there."

"You want her? Go get her."

So he did.

He put his good hand on the marble rail and vaulted over, rolling as he hit the sand. The bear turned at the thump, sniffing, watching this new intruder warily. Jaime scrambled to one knee. Well, what in seven hells do I do now? He filled his fist with sand. "Kingslayer?" he heard Brienne say, astonished.

You may see a pattern... 

[frenin]

8 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Yeah and if it stays that way he also won't get one, if you don't acknowledge your faults and wrong-doings, there is no way to want to better yourself. Don't think personally, that's a reason to respect him however.

Not respect, just a fact imo, people and Jaime are obsessed with his redemption arc, Tyrion doesn't want one.

 

8 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

A lot of people are messed up and still don't have it in them to rape a slave.

The very messed up lesson Tyrion learnt was about how to treat lowbirth women, and women in general, so i can see where that comes from.

 

 

8 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

I like Tyrion as a character, but I don't respect him more than Jaime. Biggest difference between the two of them is, that Jaime has never hurt someone else for no reason whatsoever, while Tyrion has killed someone, who didn't deserve to die, without her death having any positive effects on his life, he humiliated and threatened to strangle Illyrio's girl just to see fear on her face, he raped the sunset girl, also don't think he treated Sansa right on their WN given her age and knowledge that it was a forced marriage and he stepped on Marillion's fingers and broke them just because he mocked him, which Tyrion does all the time. Given that he doesn't know, that this guy is horrible and also is a musician, who needs his hands to make money, I just think that's really fucked up. Tyrion is also a major hypocrite (saying he has a heart for cripples bastards and broken things, but than killing and raping a sex worker), while Jaime at least knows who he is and is honest about it. He has also become steadily a better person since AGOT, while Tyrion has become a much worse person. Tyrion also threatened to rape Tommen, that's kinda similar to Jaime threatening Edmure's baby- I don't think there is reason to believe either would have gone through with it.

I like Tyrion, but I can't say, that I respect him anymore after he raped the sunset girl. I understand, that he hates his family and that he is suffering, but if you take your pain out on other innocent, weak, completely powerless people and make them suffer as well, without you needing to do that at all to protect yourself or someone you love, that says a lot about your character IMO

Not saying Jaime is a good guy, just that it's easy for me to respect him more, than Tyrion.

Jaime never hurt people for no reason whatsoever because he never had the chance to do it, he was about to kill Arya and Edmure's baby. yes right now Tyrion is worse but Jaime decisely contributed to that too.

 

 

 

[kissdbyfire]

54 minutes ago, frenin said:

Not respect, just a fact imo, people and Jaime are obsessed with his redemption arc, Tyrion doesn't want one.

There is no redemption arc in Jaime’s story. Readers tend to think this from the moment we get Jaime’s PoV. But Jaime is the same, the difference is, at a certain point we are inside his head, and that changes everything.