Rothfuss XVI: Books? What books?

[Vaughn]

22 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

I actually think a sitcom loosely based on Rothfuss would be pretty funny.  Geeky perpetual student turns into bestselling novelist.  Acquires wealth, fame, fans.  Hates it and spends his days not writing his book and videogaming while eating Cheerios.  The pilot would start off in his therapist's office with him staring at the ceiling narrating some of the Felurian scenes...

"Cthaeh Your Enthusiasm"

[Gaston de Foix]

18 minutes ago, Vaughn said:

"Cthaeh Your Enthusiasm"

One of the scenes in the pilot has to be Lin-Manuel Miranda (playing himself) gushing about how he felt when he read the novels.  Maybe even the opening scene.  https://www.tor.com/2016/06/29/lin-manuel-miranda-patrick-rothfuss-hamilton-inspiration/

And then you see someone go back to the beginning of the clip and play it again.  And again.  And again.  Each time with more cheerios scattered near the mouse pad...

Am I cruel? I feel bad.  

[Lord Patrek]

Lots of people didn't believe me when I reported (about 2 years ago) that Betsy Wollheim, Rothfuss' editor, had yet to see a single word of book 3.

If you follow her on Facebook, she just posted a link and reiterated that she hasn't seen a word of the third installment yet. . .

[Rhom]

45 minutes ago, Lord Patrek said:

Lots of people didn't believe me when I reported (about 2 years ago) that Betsy Wollheim, Rothfuss' editor, had yet to see a single word of book 3.

If you follow her on Facebook, she just posted a link and reiterated that she hasn't seen a word of the third installment yet. . .

Oh wow... this exchange in the comments was illustrative:
 

Quote

 

Melba Carr:  Russell Davis   I’m still pretty upset with Pat leading me down the garden path 5 years ago!!! Still waiting for book 3... don’t tell me he didn’t have an outline .  80 next week- is there any chance I’ll see the conclusion before I die????

Betsy Wollheim: Melba Carr I've been wondering the same thing.

 

Ouch

[Gaston de Foix]

2 hours ago, Rhom said:

Oh wow... this exchange in the comments was illustrative:
 

Ouch

And she is by all accounts a wonderful person.  It must have taken a number of broken promises for her to speak out like this.  That said, her words can be understood narrowly simply to be referring to the last part of Melba's statement, that she wonders whether she (Betsy) will see Doors of Stone published before she dies.  Now that's not a good fact for PR given the relative difference of ages. 

Patrek, it's not that I don't believe you.  It sounds all too plausible.  But remember the snap Pat posed of a manuscript printout of Doors of Stone?  Was he really epically gaslighting his fans?

[Lord Patrek]

There is a manuscript, of course. Pat has been working on the third volume for almost a decade. But the fact that his editor has yet to see a single word of it means that we have no idea whether or not it's approaching completion.

[Gaston de Foix]

1 hour ago, Lord Patrek said:

But the fact that his editor has yet to see a single word of it means that we have no idea whether or not it's approaching completion.

I would infer from the fact the editor is yet to see a single word (if that is in fact what she means) that in fact the manuscript is not close to completion. 

I defer to the authors on the board, but isn't that kind of a waste of an editor? If I had a person whose job it was to work with me to make my manuscript as good as possible I wouldn't hesitate to send her drafts on a rolling basis, even incomplete works in progress and benefit from her insight and help.  Good writing is an iterative process. 

[ljkeane]

6 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

I would infer from the fact the editor is yet to see a single word (if that is in fact what she means) that in fact the manuscript is not close to completion. 

I defer to the authors on the board, but isn't that kind of a waste of an editor? If I had a person whose job it was to work with me to make my manuscript as good as possible I wouldn't hesitate to send her drafts on a rolling basis, even incomplete works in progress and benefit from her insight and help.  Good writing is an iterative process. 

Looking Betsy Wollheim up she isn't just his editor, she's the co-owner of his publishers. I'd think their relationship probably goes a little beyond whether he's properly utilising her services as an editor. I think that's why she seems so irritated with Rothfuss is not your bitch article. He might not owe his readers a book but he does owe his publishers one.

[Lord Patrek]

48 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

I would infer from the fact the editor is yet to see a single word (if that is in fact what she means) that in fact the manuscript is not close to completion. 

I defer to the authors on the board, but isn't that kind of a waste of an editor? If I had a person whose job it was to work with me to make my manuscript as good as possible I wouldn't hesitate to send her drafts on a rolling basis, even incomplete works in progress and benefit from her insight and help.  Good writing is an iterative process. 

Depends on the authors and their editors.

Often, an editor will only see a manuscript when it's fully done and turned in. Others will have a more proactive relationship with their authors and will offer feedback at various stages of completion.

It depends.

[Derfel Cadarn]

1 hour ago, Gaston de Foix said:

I would infer from the fact the editor is yet to see a single word (if that is in fact what she means) that in fact the manuscript is not close to completion. 

I defer to the authors on the board, but isn't that kind of a waste of an editor? If I had a person whose job it was to work with me to make my manuscript as good as possible I wouldn't hesitate to send her drafts on a rolling basis, even incomplete works in progress and benefit from her insight and help.  Good writing is an iterative process. 

I don’t send anything to my publisher until the book is finished. No point in an editor going over stuff that may be cut. Plus, most publishers won’t sign for a fiction book until the final draft is done. Most books are never finished.

 

[Werthead]

Worth remembering that Rothfuss reported having a complete draft of the entire trilogy in 2001 (!), let alone 2007 when he reiterated through repeated interviews that all three books were rocking and ready to go.

He later amended that to, "oh, they weren't finished finished, I still had to do major re-edits and rewrites on them," which is fair enough, but in that case don't fucking say they're 100% done and ready to go, and throw some shade on GRRM in the process.

2 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

I defer to the authors on the board, but isn't that kind of a waste of an editor? If I had a person whose job it was to work with me to make my manuscript as good as possible I wouldn't hesitate to send her drafts on a rolling basis, even incomplete works in progress and benefit from her insight and help.  Good writing is an iterative process. 

GRRM's editor, Anne Groell, sees his manuscripts on a regular basis throughout writing, although only when he is satisfied with rewrites and editing on them. For AFFC and ADWD he submitted chapters every few months whenever he finished a batch so it was more of a rolling process (although based on her post-release interviews, I get the impression she really saved her in-depth editing passes for when the entire MS was complete, with the earlier stuff being more like feedback).

For TWoW he decided to take a different tack by not doing any rewrites or editing until later in the process, so I don't believe she saw any new material from the book (bar the chapters held back from ADWD and another 168 MS pages submitted in 2013) up until around 2014 or 2015.

For the 95% of authors who write much shorter books and submit them on a much saner timescale, it'd be hugely counterproductive to send in in-progress manuscripts, editors don't have time to look at them, only when they're done.

[Rhom]

25 minutes ago, Werthead said:

 (bar the chapters held back from ADWD and another 168 MS pages submitted in 2013)

[Darth Richard II]

I'm sure that manuscript was just blank pages with a line that says Kvothe has cool sex here and drawings of the time machine.

[Werthead]

6 minutes ago, Rhom said:

He's submitted way more than that since then (it appears that he now has 38 chapters done as an absolute rock-bottom floor, which would be more than half the book if it was AGoT, ACoK or ADWD, or almost all of it if it were AFFC), that was just the situation back then.

[Gaston de Foix]

59 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Plus, most publishers won’t sign for a fiction book until the final draft is done. Most books are never finished.

 

Derfel does that mean you sign your contract post manuscript submission?

[Gaston de Foix]

45 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Worth remembering that Rothfuss reported having a complete draft of the entire trilogy in 2001 (!), let alone 2007 when he reiterated through repeated interviews that all three books were rocking and ready to go.

He later amended that to, "oh, they weren't finished finished, I still had to do major re-edits and rewrites on them," which is fair enough, but in that case don't fucking say they're 100% done and ready to go, and throw some shade on GRRM in the process.

Always fun to see what makes the normally equable Wert lose his shit.   All this is true but PR's kind of driven the car in the ditch and doesn't know how to get out.  I think PR thinks that on some level (1) he doesn't owe anyone shit; (2) his critics will never be satisfied until the book is delivered. 

Not sure that's true and he can't rebuild trust, but I do think he should try to get Book 3 done even in increments and out to the publisher even in chunks.  Hell maybe hire a writing partner.  I know for myself I'm a better editor than writer. 

[Jace, Extat]

Wait is book 3 not coming out in August?

[Zorral]

I dunno.  All our books, mine, partner's and ours, were contracted on proposal and, with the fiction, first three chapters (though there's no imperative those three chapters remain the opening chapters -- or even remain in the novel at all).  Otherwise there's no advance, and advances are crucial.

 

[Werthead]

3 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Derfel does that mean you sign your contract post manuscript submission?

All authors do, at least for their debut books.

Once the initial contract is fulfilled, then authors gain a lot more trust and leeway and can sell books that are incomplete based on a couple of chapters and an outline: that's how GRRM sold ASoIaF, with the first 180 pages of AGoT, not the full thing, but he had 20 years as a published author under his belt at the point.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

4 hours ago, Werthead said:

He's submitted way more than that since then (it appears that he now has 38 chapters done as an absolute rock-bottom floor, which would be more than half the book if it was AGoT, ACoK or ADWD, or almost all of it if it were AFFC), that was just the situation back then.

Doesn't the Publisher throwing shade at an author in a public forum mean the author's relationship with the Publisher may be... less than cordial?