Videogames: "No E3 for you!" edition.

[The Anti-Targ]

The Series X isn't going to be $700, surely. I have nothing to base it on, but I very much doubt PS5 will be $600. Whichever company jumps first with the price announcement, the other company will price their unit within $100. And MS can't really afford to be more expensive.

[RumHam]

5 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The Series X isn't going to be $700, surely. I have nothing to base it on, but I very much doubt PS5 will be $600. Whichever company jumps first with the price announcement, the other company will price their unit within $100. And MS can't really afford to be more expensive.

I mean they've been selling consoles at a loss to increase their install base for at least a generation now. There clearly are people who will pay more money for a more powerful system (how many Xbox one X's and Playstation pro's were sold? How many of those $150 custom xbox controllers?) So why not take their money, so long as you also have a $500 version for the rest of us?

Plus they get to focus on the more powerful system right now and keep talking about how it's more powerful than the Playstation 5. 

[A True Kaniggit]

I have a hilarious Crusader Kings II going on right now.

Lots of good stuff, but my favorite thing happening so far is my celibate heir not figuring out that his wife is cheating on him.

How the hell does he think she keeps on getting pregnant?

[briantw]

If I have to pay 700 for a console I might as well just build a new computer for a few hundred more. 

[Werthead]

I doubt the consoles will be $700. With economies of scale and the relatively older tech they're using, I don't understand why they'd cost that much in the first place, unless the new SSD tech really is much more complicated than it appears. $600 I think is the upper ceiling on that this time around.

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Plus they get to focus on the more powerful system right now and keep talking about how it's more powerful than the Playstation 5. 

That was their tactic last time and it utterly failed (to the tune of there being rather more than twice as many PS4s as XB1s in existence). Japan simply isn't interested in X-Box, at all, and that's a sizeable chunk of the market gone right there. Then they have to win over all the PlayStation 4 owners who want backwards compatibility, which they're rather obviously not going to get from XBX.

Unless Microsoft can show substantial technical superiority rather than the marginal ones they've show so far, I consider it unlikely they are going to make significant gains on Sony this time around. The 360 is looking increasingly like an outlier (in terms of early success, in terms of lifetime success they pretty much had parity) based on them being able to launch a lot earlier and at a lower price point.

[Fez]

3 hours ago, Werthead said:

That was their tactic last time and it utterly failed (to the tune of there being rather more than twice as many PS4s as XB1s in existence). Japan simply isn't interested in X-Box, at all, and that's a sizeable chunk of the market gone right there. Then they have to win over all the PlayStation 4 owners who want backwards compatibility, which they're rather obviously not going to get from XBX.

The X-Box One X is more powerful than the PS4 Pro, but it was clearly already too late this generation for Microsoft. Sony had too big a lead, both because Microsoft screwed up the X-Box One rollout and because the X-Box One was both more expensive and less powerful than the PS4. They went all in on the Kinect and other features that customers didn't want and it screwed them. 

But it's a new generation now. Maybe more customers will value the power of the Xbox Series X over the PS5 the way they didn't for the step-up consoles. Also, there's always the chance that Microsoft is willing to take an absolute bath on the price point, under the logic that they'll make up the difference over time in GamePass subscriptions. If the Series X is more powerful than the PS5 AND cheaper than the PS5, then they're in the position that Sony was at the start last time.

[The Anti-Targ]

8 hours ago, RumHam said:

I mean they've been selling consoles at a loss to increase their install base for at least a generation now. There clearly are people who will pay more money for a more powerful system (how many Xbox one X's and Playstation pro's were sold? How many of those $150 custom xbox controllers?) So why not take their money, so long as you also have a $500 version for the rest of us?

Plus they get to focus on the more powerful system right now and keep talking about how it's more powerful than the Playstation 5. 

It's not going to be that much more powerful, and the console that sells best in any generation is the one that has the best combination of price and power. Most powerful console EVAH! only has a limited market. PS4Pro and X1X were still sub $500 power upgrades when they came out. Even though people are not totally sold on power, a lot of people still want a decent amount of power. If the XsX-lite is seen as underpowered I don't see it hitting the right sweet spot of power and price either.

MS will never be the sales lead, the early advantage 360 had was wiped out once PS3 got into a good price zone, so by the time PS4  / Xone launched PS3 had just eeked out a lead. Xbox can perform better with a decent product that has no elements that puts off consumers and no arrogance on the part of execs. But assuming Sony also doesn't do anything to piss off consumers PS5 should perform similar to PS4.

Who knows what Nintendo is going to do to follow up the Switch, but Switch is such a brilliant concept for Nintendo I don't see why they wouldn't run it back with virtually an identical product, only with more power.

[RumHam]

I was never suggesting that Xbox would overtake Playstation next generation, only that there is a market for expensive high end shit and they might try to tap it more.

I don't really expect things to shift at all. Personally even though I know Sony has the better exclusives, I own so many digital games on my xbox account it would take something huge to get me to switch provided they keep up the backwards compatibility.

[Werthead]

8 hours ago, Fez said:

The X-Box One X is more powerful than the PS4 Pro, but it was clearly already too late this generation for Microsoft. Sony had too big a lead, both because Microsoft screwed up the X-Box One rollout and because the X-Box One was both more expensive and less powerful than the PS4. They went all in on the Kinect and other features that customers didn't want and it screwed them. 

But it's a new generation now. Maybe more customers will value the power of the Xbox Series X over the PS5 the way they didn't for the step-up consoles. Also, there's always the chance that Microsoft is willing to take an absolute bath on the price point, under the logic that they'll make up the difference over time in GamePass subscriptions. If the Series X is more powerful than the PS5 AND cheaper than the PS5, then they're in the position that Sony was at the start last time.

At launch the X-Box One was reportedly more powerful than the PlayStation 4. If they proved afterwards that was not true and the base PS4 performed better, fine, but certainly at launch the XB1 had the reputation of being slightly more powerful (although it was marginal, even more marginal than the XBX vs the PS5, which is still pretty marginal) and X-Boxers were screaming that to the heavens.

Your other point is a good one, though. Microsoft is a much bigger and much richer company than Sony, whose non-PlayStation business has been shrinking steadily for years, and certainly Microsoft can outgun Sony as a company overall. However, X-Box is only part of Microsoft's operations and one that feels increasingly like it's one change of executive away from being canned for good if they can't eke out a lead over Sony.

I suspect both companies see the ultimate future as streaming machines anyway, and would have probably already switched to that if it wasn't for the USA's horrific internet infrastructure.

[Kalbear]

Gods I wish I could say more.

[Ran]

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

Gods I wish I could say more.

The hoi polloi will know more next month, I'm guessing.

I'm assuming Microsoft has also already done much of the stuff Sony has done with their kernel and hardware stack to really utilize SSDs to their fullest potential. Some of the stuff I've read about is very impressive, but it all seems to follow from developments that were already being worked on, such as graphics engines like UE5, and making those actually possible on next generation tech.

Wonder when some of that stuff will come to Windows and PCs, which is all that really matters to me since I haven't owned a console since 1996.

[Werthead]

16 minutes ago, Ran said:

The hoi polloi will know more next month, I'm guessing.

I'm assuming Microsoft has also already done much of the stuff Sony has done with their kernel and hardware stack to really utilize SSDs to their fullest potential. Some of the stuff I've read about is very impressive, but it all seems to follow from developments that were already being worked on, such as graphics engines like UE5, and making those actually possible on next generation tech.

Wonder when some of that stuff will come to Windows and PCs, which is all that really matters to me since I haven't owned a console since 1996.

Apparently already in the works. It'll probably be a while before either console produces games that really use that tech to its maximum potential so it's not an imminent concern, but 1-2 years into the new cycle I can see the need for those new SSDs becoming pretty convincing.

[A True Kaniggit]

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

Gods I wish I could say more.

Which Gods?

The Microsoft Gods?

I can make a small sacrifice to them if that will help.

[Ran]

4 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Apparently already in the works. It'll probably be a while before either console produces games that really use that tech to its maximum potential so it's not an imminent concern, but 1-2 years into the new cycle I can see the need for those new SSDs becoming pretty convincing.

Makes me wonder if I can keep this 6-year-old PC going for a couple more years. Hate getting a new computer on the cusp of substantial hardware leaps...

Starting to think that streaming services are going to be the way forward. This computer I'm on, I've had for six years, and other than replacing the graphics card a couple of years ago when it died with what was then a mid-tier card, I've not felt a great need to get something better. Cyberpunk 2077 makes me feel that way... but when I look at the likely specs to get the most out of the raytracing (even taking into account DLSS 2.0's vast performance boosting possibilities), I wonder what's the point of going through the trouble when for $6 or $10 or $20 a month I can stream the game in its full raytraced visual glory. Shouldn't take more than a couple of months of daily play to get one's money's worth.

[Fez]

26 minutes ago, Ran said:

Starting to think that streaming services are going to be the way forward. 

Eventually, yes. But the mostly-a-failure experience of Google Stadia suggests it's still a ways off. The US is far too big a market to ignore, and it simply isn't ready for streaming.

As for our other questions, I do wonder if Microsoft will finally start answering them at this July virtual event they're having. Or if they'll hold on everything except showing their first games and keep daring Sony to go first on announcing a price.

[briantw]

2 minutes ago, Fez said:

Eventually, yes. But the mostly-a-failure experience of Google Stadia suggests it's still a ways off. The US is far too big a market to ignore, and it simply isn't ready for streaming.

As for our other questions, I do wonder if Microsoft will finally start answering them at this July virtual event they're having. Or if they'll hold on everything except showing their first games and keep daring Sony to go first on announcing a price.

I've had a pretty good experience with GeForce Now, which I've been using since the storage drive in my PC failed a few months back and I'm left with just the SSD the OS is installed on.  The main problem is that a lot of companies pulled their games from the service.  However, I've been able to play quite a few, including Team Fortress 2 multiplayer, with minimal hiccups.  

I've also played some games on Playstation's streaming service without issue.

[Ran]

16 minutes ago, briantw said:

I've had a pretty good experience with GeForce Now,

Yeah, the free level of GeForce Now is working all right (decided to test today). And by November, should have upgraded internet (from 100Mbit to 1 Gbit) where paying for a subscription makes sense. I like how you can add a few games from Steam, Epic, Origin, and Uplay. Not everything, but still. Enough. And Cyberpunk 2077 will definitely be available over the service. 

 

[briantw]

1 minute ago, Ran said:

Yeah, the free level of GeForce Now is working all right (decided to test today). And by November, should have upgraded internet (from 100Mbit to 1 Gbit) where paying for a subscription makes sense. I like how you can add a few games from Steam, Epic, Origin, and Uplay. Not everything, but still. Enough. And Cyberpunk 2077 will definitely be available over the service. 

 

Honestly, the fact that I can play quite a few games that I want to is the main reason I haven't bothered building a new rig yet.  Team Fortress 2 is a game I've been playing for over a decade now and, while it's a little jittery, the only class where I think that's a deal-breaker is Scout, and that's not a class I play a whole lot of that these days anyway.

I don't have amazing internet or anything either.  Standard Spectrum service.  

[Ran]

14 minutes ago, briantw said:

Honestly, the fact that I can play quite a few games that I want to is the main reason I haven't bothered building a new rig yet.  Team Fortress 2 is a game I've been playing for over a decade now and, while it's a little jittery, the only class where I think that's a deal-breaker is Scout, and that's not a class I play a whole lot of that these days anyway.

Always found Scout a bit difficult on my machine. He's such a fast class, and plays very twitchy, especially with Baby Face's Blaster boost or all the mid-air jumps you can do with the Hype meter from the Soda Popper.

[Werthead]

44 minutes ago, briantw said:

I've had a pretty good experience with GeForce Now, which I've been using since the storage drive in my PC failed a few months back and I'm left with just the SSD the OS is installed on.  The main problem is that a lot of companies pulled their games from the service.  However, I've been able to play quite a few, including Team Fortress 2 multiplayer, with minimal hiccups.  

I've also played some games on Playstation's streaming service without issue.

Hell, OnLive worked absolutely fine back in 2011 (I played Deus Ex: Human Revolution from start to finish over it when it was released). The issue has never been the basic idea, just the internet infrastructure. In Asia and most of Europe it's good to go right now. The US is just holding back the rest of the world at the moment. I can see maybe Google, Amazon and Facebook joining forces to deliver high-speed, high-quality broadband to the entire country just to maximise their revenue streams and get the country up to the standards of the rest of the world.