Avatar: The Last Airbender live-action show on Netflix (now sans its creators).

[The Grey Wolf Strikes Back]

3 hours ago, ASOIAFrelatedusername said:

So far the show has not convinced me that it needed to exist.

I'd say that's the default when it comes to these things because live-action adaptations of animated material are usually little more than unimaginative cash-grabs banking on nostalgia over quality. Having said that, I've heard after the first episode things do improve, especially in terms of tone and atmosphere.

Edited February 22 by The Grey Wolf Strikes Back

[Heartofice]

I can tell from the first episode that this show really does not need to exist. It has all the hallmarks of an animation to live action remake, in a bad way. I don't think this Netflix version is terrible, and maybe kids who haven't seen the original will enjoy it but I thought it was pretty weak in comparison, for a number of reasons:
 

• I cannot grasp why they changed the opening of the show in the way they did. I can only guess they just wanted it to be different to the cartoon in some way. What the cartoon did well was start the story introducing the main characters interacting with each other, in a fun and impactful way. It pushed us into the plot and gets you engaged, without crushing you with backstory.
  This show however takes 30 mins to get to that scene, and front loads a ton of exposition and world building, something the cartoon did over time and at the right moment
   
• Similarly the way they introduce Aang is really dull and doesn't give any sense of his character. Its like the writers thought the best way to introduce the main character of the show is just have him be on screen and have people talk about him and how important he is. It just wasn't a great way to understand who he is. 
   
• There are plenty of other weaknesses related to it being live action, and it really exposes all the limitations of the medium. Firstly animation allows characters to be larger than life and more expressive, which is does far more to communicate character than an actor can do in a small amount of time. Consequently every single character in this show just seems bland and boring. Maybe its bad acting, but more like it's just that the acting style is much less subtle. Even One Piece seemed to get the vibe better than this.
  
  Then the action just isn't very good. One of my favourite elements of the cartoon was that the choreography was just sooo good! But none of that comes across in the Netflix show. Action is cut in a way as to hide peoples forms, its too fast paced to see what is happening and they blur things with special effects and darkness. Again, its much harder to film this stuff than animate it.
  
  Also every scene is clearly just sound staged. There is an obvious foreground and a background layer, its a real problem these days. Really takes me out of it.
  
   

Anyway, I don't see the point in continuing. It's main failure is that it's characters just seem much flatter and less fun to watch, I could forgive all the other stuff if I bought into each character, but they all seem like exposition machines spouting robotic dialogue. 

[sifth]

40 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Anyway, I don't see the point in continuing. It's main failure is that it's characters just seem much flatter and less fun to watch, I could forgive all the other stuff if I bought into each character, but they all seem like exposition machines spouting robotic dialogue. 

It sort of reminds me of the RLM term, "just like, but worse". I feel like I was spoiled when I saw the One Piece live action show and it ended up being really good.

That being said, I'll at least watch a few more episodes before I give up on this show. In some cases shows do improve after time.

[Heartofice]

10 hours ago, sifth said:

It sort of reminds me of the RLM term, "just like, but worse". I feel like I was spoiled when I saw the One Piece live action show and it ended up being really good.

That being said, I'll at least watch a few more episodes before I give up on this show. In some cases shows do improve after time.

I didn't really like One Piece but it felt like a much better approach to adapting a cartoon than this was. It felt a lot more bright and breezy and had a lighter aesthetic, even down to the performances. Avatar seems crushingly dark for a lot of the scenes, and when it's not it looks like a sound stage, which is maybe why they try and hide it by making things be set at night. 

 

[sifth]

41 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I didn't really like One Piece but it felt like a much better approach to adapting a cartoon than this was. It felt a lot more bright and breezy and had a lighter aesthetic, even down to the performances. Avatar seems crushingly dark for a lot of the scenes, and when it's not it looks like a sound stage, which is maybe why they try and hide it by making things be set at night. 

 

It has more to do with tone. The One Piece live action show made some changes, but the over all tone and message of the story remained the same. They also did a great job with the flashbacks, which have always been one of the best parts of the story.

Edited February 23 by sifth

[ASOIAFrelatedusername]

So kinda rushed through the second one. It might have been better but the general point that is show is lacking the sheer fun and levity of the original still stands

Spoiler

- no elephant koi riding; Aang wanting to travel there to learn from Kyoshi specifically

- Sokka wanting to abandon Aang again in the beginning

- Aang not wanting to learn waterbending

- no comedic humbling of Sokka, no crossdressing; instead we get awkward teenage fumbling between Suki and Sokka

- Zuko's angsty and moody demeanor not providing a contrast to the shows lighthearted tone

- no excessive fangirling/fanboying over the Avatar on Kyoshi Island

- I feel likeZhao lost a bit of his pompousness

We also have the second instance of an episode being cut after the Southern Air Temple and it's the Waterbending Scroll, which I suspect is going to hurt Katara's character. The original showed that she wasn't all nice and well-behaved. She could be jealous (of Aang's easy mastery of waterbending) and self-righteous (her justification for stealing the scroll). Here the waterbending scroll is just given to Katara in secret by her grandmother

The episode also foreshadowed the White Lotus though I guess they can slot that in elsewhere (and they will probably do so with far less subtlety).

On the plus-side maybe the episode's absence will mean that there will be less new Zutara shippers.

Stuff that annoyed me to varying degrees

Spoiler

- no title sequence

- Zhao's sideburns not being nearly as glorious as they where in the original.

- no Agni Kai. If you want to bring in Zhao already, that scene needs to be there

- Katara's PTSD flashback

- Kyoshi possessing  of Aang and her instructing him. Where is Roku?

- the reveal of Ozai

The show still hasn't justified its existence.

Regarding One Piece, which I have never watched and, unless I were to suffer a fatal aneurysm, never will: At least you can say that abridging that absolutely massive behemoth has some value. Here the original is already on Netflix and it's only 61 episodes. It's runtime is not that much longer than what the live-action version's is likely going to be.

 

Edited February 23 by ASOIAFrelatedusername

[Rippounet]

I watched the first 20 or 30 minutes of this (up to Zuko's appearance) and found it mediocre.

It was a good idea to show stuff that wasn't shown in the original cartoon, but all in all it was poorly done, mostly because the acting is poor.
And no, I'm not just thinking about the kids, Gyatso really didn't work for me.

One detail that struck me: I remember thinking it was good to have the monks' robes be worn out. And then, when we switch to the South Pole, Katara and Sokka's outfits when not only too clean, but visibly artificial in nature (i.e. it was obvious they weren't made of animal fur).
This kind of details gets me out of a show at warp speed.

I'll try finishing episoed 1 tonight, but so far I'm not impressed.

And yeah, on a different note, Maisie Williams totally rocked in GoT.

[Liffguard]

14 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

One detail that struck me: I remember thinking it was good to have the monks' robes be worn out. And then, when we switch to the South Pole, Katara and Sokka's outfits when not only too clean, but visibly artificial in nature (i.e. it was obvious they weren't made of animal fur).

This kind of details gets me out of a show at warp speed.

Yeah, one of the things that immediately punctures my suspension of disbelief in movies and tv shows (less so on stage) is costumes that look like costumes. Yet another inherent difficulty in translating animation to live action. Trying to make animated clothing look naturalistic in live action while still being recognisable is extremely difficult.

[sifth]

27 minutes ago, Liffguard said:

Yeah, one of the things that immediately punctures my suspension of disbelief in movies and tv shows (less so on stage) is costumes that look like costumes. Yet another inherent difficulty in translating animation to live action. Trying to make animated clothing look naturalistic in live action while still being recognisable is extremely difficult.

I mean there are some amazing cosplayers that can do it really well. You’d think Hollywood would just hire them if they can’t do it, lol

Edited February 23 by sifth

[Heartofice]

38 minutes ago, Liffguard said:

Yeah, one of the things that immediately punctures my suspension of disbelief in movies and tv shows (less so on stage) is costumes that look like costumes. Yet another inherent difficulty in translating animation to live action. Trying to make animated clothing look naturalistic in live action while still being recognisable is extremely difficult.

Those costumes probably look really nice in marketing material which is the important thing!

It more bothers me when actors just feel less authentic, straight out of drama school kids. RoP really annoyed me with this. 

[ASOIAFrelatedusername]

Onto episode 3 and the show is the show seriously thinking that referencing the Cabbage Merchant is going to endear me to it?

So first despite this episode being called Omashu and nominally set in Omashu, we don't actually get anything from "The King of Omashu". Instead Omashu is infused with an unnecessary additional layer of dark grittines ( ) and the plot is a mix of "Jet" and "The Northern Air Temple".

Spoiler

Basically the Mechanist, called "Sai" in the show, is in the employ of Bumi and is secretly working with the Fire Nation. Jet is responsible for terrorist attacks in the city and is aware of "Sai's" treason.

One might think that combining these two is a good idea, but the result doesn't work: For one thing not having the Mechanist set in the Nothern Air Temple robs Aang of the important lesson he needed in that episode, for another it really makes "Sai" a colossal asshole. His collaboration in the original was actually somewhat understandable, he did it to guarantee the safety of his son and friends, here he does it because... well I have to admit that I again rushed through this.

The Jet part is a bit better, but this Jet doesn't have the same charm as the original and it is a bit less believable that she would fall for him. Switching the target of Jet's attack is not an improvement for him either. It is however emblematic of a series that doesn't want to its time.

Sokka is also robbed is role in saving the village from Jet.

Both episodes really needed time to breathe and it goes without saying that they aren't as fun as the original. In addition the series really doesn't trust that the audience would want to watch a simple adventure show that gains layers as it goes on, hence the need to inject more grittiness and make the plot more complicated.

Zuko, Iroh and Zhao are also in this episode presumably because of some contractual obligation.

Spoiler

Zuko even manages to get into the xenophobic Omashu and has a meaningless fight with Aang that contributes absolutely nothing.

The same is true for Azula, who's introduction also lacks the same punch that the original had, as well as Mai and Ty Lee who are just kind of there. And I feel bad about saying this, but Mai's actress is not a good fit for Mai's very "sharp" character design. Ozai and Azula suffer like Iroh from the change in (voice-)actors.

Lastly I hate the character assassination of lieutenant Jee. That guy was exemplary soldier dammit.

PS: And Aang still isn't interested in waterbending.

PPS: I am still waiting for the Agni Kai between Zhao and Zuko

PPPS: They should have remade Korra

PPPPS: They also didn't show Earth benders powering the delivery system unless I missed something

Edited February 23 by ASOIAFrelatedusername

[Werthead]

Episodes 3 and 4 are confused and confusing as all hell.

Spoiler

They mix together Jet, The Northern Air Temple and then go completely mad and bring in The Cave of Two Lovers from Season 2!

Bumi is just random as fuck in this. I did get why they had Aang recognise him immediately - it was weird in the original he didn't because Kid Bumi and Old Bumi looked very similar - but with different actors and prosthetics and costumes, the two Bumis didn't look anything at all alike, so Aang not recognising him would have made way more sense this way around.

Azula has some promise but Mai and Ty Lee have not impressed as yet.

On the plus side I really rate Ken Leung - he roamed around the last few seasons of Lost as the only sane guy in the village pointing out the WTFery everyone else was taking way too easily in their stride, and that was coming from someone who could talk to the dead - and it's a shame he's not been in more high-profile stuff. I wonder if he'll have a Lost reunion with Daniel Dae Kim (probably not at this rate).

On the plus side, the CG depiction of Omashu is stunning, and I'm impressed they actually did the cart racing and jumping, I assumed that would be cut.

ETA: There's one brief bit where you can see Earthbenders powering the delivery system.

The OG creators are probably happy they stayed in the land of animation. If they wanted to be smart, they'd drop a trailer or teaser for the new animated film in the near future.

Edited February 23 by Werthead

[fionwe1987]

I just started. It's a terrible call, to start with the Airbender genocide. It just doesn't land. If I didn't know the show, why would I care about any of this, and so soon?

This should have been flashback, as it was in the animation. A grittier flashback, fine, but don't lead with it, that makes no sense. 

[Kalbear]

First ep in.

So I think it looks fine and pretty, I am okay with the costumes being a bit more artificial looking to somewhat match the look of the cartoon, and the fights and effects have been nice.

However, it is entirely missing the soul of the cartoon. There is virtually no fun to be had by anyone, anywhere, any time. It definitely is not the cartoon and I guess in that respect it has a right to exist in a different space - it is absurdly, tonally different - but then why ape the cartoon's beats so much? 

It also goes absurdly fast for what it does - compressing the first 3-4 episodes into 30 minutes made me feel like I had actually missed a whole sequence or time in there, but nope - we just jump from Aang being freed to being jailed to Sokka and Katara not even flying on the bison once and having the yip-yip moment to them saving Aang in like 5 minutes and no change. 

It's...I dunno. It's a drag. One Piece as far as I can tell absolutely nailed both the major plot points and the crazy optimism and care of the crew, which is ultimately the most important thing. The best adaptations do that - they may change things around but nail the spirit of the story, the thing that made you like it in the first place. This seems to throw most of that away in favor of a fairly brutal story with almost no one being worthy of being cared about. 

[Heartofice]

44 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

I just started. It's a terrible call, to start with the Airbender genocide. It just doesn't land. If I didn't know the show, why would I care about any of this, and so soon?

This should have been flashback, as it was in the animation. A grittier flashback, fine, but don't lead with it, that makes no sense. 

Agree, the sad thing is the decision is not surprising. It’s like there is a big book of ‘how to write a story’ somewhere that says ‘ make the stakes super high and show a massive violent slaughter in the first half hour’. So many shows and movies seem to have read this book.

If only there was a similar book that told writers to establish interesting compelling characters instead.

[Werthead]

Some interesting choices in Episode 6.

Spoiler

Koh the Face-Stealer is really good in live-action (well, CGI interacting with live-action, but still). Bringing in the Fog of Lost Souls from The Legend of Korra Season 2 - the worst season of the franchise - is also a deep cut. Finally bringing in Avatar Roku is a nice idea, although I haven't got to him actually showing up yet.

Wan Shi Tong showing up this early without the Library is...weird.

 

[ASOIAFrelatedusername]

Episode 4 continues the soullessness.

Spoiler

Katara and Sokka get to go into the Cave of Two Lovers, so there is no romantic development (thankfully), but also none of the comedy. The hippies make an appearance for some reason and just infodump the tale of Oma and Shu and Sokka pretty much immediately figures out that they need to put out their light sources, so no tension there. Tensions come however from a very scary badgermole because I guess someone needed to happen in this pointless waste of screen time.

Onto the meeting of Bumi and Aang

Spoiler

Aang immediately recognizes Bumi, but instead of a heartfelt reunion we get awkwardness, resentment  and conflict with Bumi being suicidal and wanting Aang to learn to make hard choices. Katara and Sokka have to rush to save both from being crushed by rocks.

Yeah screw that.

Also we finally learn why Zuko and Iroh needed to be in Omashu, brace yourselves:

Spoiler

It was because Aang and Iroh needed another conversation about the war I guess. I get the wish to set up Iroh's later actions like that, but it is far too early. The original again did a much of trickling that in over the course of two seasons.

There is also some stuff about Zuko comforting Iroh at Lu Ten's funeral which is apparently the reason why Iroh decided to take care of him, which is unneeded. We actually see a short flashback

Also related too that is that Iroh is no longer the funny, old, fat guy. In the original some of that might have been a facade deliberately put on, but at the very least the contrast between that and his displays of badassness enhanced the latter.

And finishing of with another nitpick

Spoiler

Zuko is far too old in the aforementioned flashback

I have given the show a chance after the first episode. It fails as an adaptation, not in the obvious ways that the Shyamalan movie did, but in deliberately robbing the original of its spirit. It honestly reminds me a bit of Jackson's Hobbit movies where the creatives were also not content to adapt an adventure story for children, but needed to make it a fantasy EPIC!!!

PS: Aang still has not even attempted to waterbend

Edited February 23 by ASOIAFrelatedusername

[polishgenius]

Reading up on the stuff about Bumi and, no, I'm glad I didn't give the show a chance. What a fucking nerve. 

[sifth]

I will say one thing positive, I really like the actress playing Azula. Her performance is great  and she's likely my favorite child performer on the show. Now the scene in which she is introduced is complete trash.

Spoiler

So these rebels who are planning to bring down the Fire Lord, have no idea what his heir even looks like. No one in that little rebel group, based in the capital and likely consisting of citizens of the capital had any idea what the princess of the fire nation looked like................I'm sorry, but the logic behind that just makes my head hurt.

I think what annoys me, is the fact that I can literally tell most of this show is filmed in front of a green screen. Most of the outside scenes, feel very fake and the lighting is often very unnatural.

Edited February 23 by sifth

[sifth]

So watched the 3rd and 4th episode and my fears for this show seem to be right. They're basically treating Avatar the same way the studio treated The Hobbit. They're turning a children's story into a fantasy epic and in doing so completely destroying the spirit of the series.